United States of Europe

alcomoholic

http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16050832

Looks like the predictions are finally coming true. :mad:

hiram

alcomoholic wrote: »

http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16050832

Looks like the predictions are finally coming true. :mad:

True, try googleing Pierre Plantard and a federal europe....interesting

H

namloc1980

This is only a bluff. Sarkozy is petrified that France's AAA rating is going to be slashed and will say anything at this stage to try and calm markets. You will never get the 17 Eurozone members to agree to this. This looks more like the desperate death throes of the Euro, than a last step to federalism.

jackiebaron

namloc1980 wrote: »

This is only a bluff. Sarkozy is petrified that France's AAA rating is going to be slashed and will say anything at this stage to try and calm markets. You will never get the 17 Eurozone members to agree to this. This looks more like the desperate death throes of the Euro, than a last step to federalism.

Deny it all you want. This is how these changes happen. Scare the beejaysus out of people and you can impose anything on them. I'm guessing that you have always called people who predict a united states of europe 'tin foil hat merchants'.

Well now it's slowly happening and you're just in denial.

Jeboa Safari

I think the overall goal is a united federal Europe, if they move too quick they'll scare people off it. I can't see Britain, the Scandinavian countries and some of the Eastern Europeans going for it though, so it remains to be seen if they can implement it.
Merkel made a speech around a year ago calling for more political and economic union

During a speech given during the awarding of the prestigious Charlemagne Prize for furthering European unity in Aachen on Thursday, Chancellor Angela Merkel used strong words to address the current euro zone crisis. If the euro collapses, Merkel warned, "then Europe and the idea of European union will fail." In her speech to guests gathered to honor this year's recipient of the award, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, Merkel called on Europeans to come together, saying that deeper coordination of economic and finance policies is needed.

"We have a common currency, but no common political and economic union," she said. "And this is exactly what we must change. To achieve this -- therein lies the opportunity of the crisis."
European governments, she said, promised their citizens stability for the common currency, the euro, "and we must keep that promise." Merkel described the current crisis as the "greatest test for the EU since the collapse of communism." If we do not succeed in mastering this crisis, she warned, it will have "unforeseeable consequences" for Europe. "But if we succeed, then we will have a stronger Europe than ever before."

Polish Prime Minister Tusk added that the debt crisis didn't mean the beginning of Europe's twilight. "Paradoxically, I see an opportunity in the crisis," he said during his acceptance speech, "to strengthen and further develop Europe. The bell is tolling for Europe, and overcoming this crisis will be the best proof."

Fifty-three-year-old Tusk was bestowed with the honor, among other things, for his efforts to see through the ratification of the European Union's Lisbon Treaty and for his recognition of the importance of good neighbourly relations between Poland and Germany. Merkel noted that the signing of the Lisbon Treaty by Tusk had created a "renewed treaty-based foundation" for the EU. But she also said that problems with EU regulations also needed to be addressed.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,694696,00.html

Torakx

I agree with those sentiments alot.
I have for a few years now been researching alot of Ct stuff relating to american politics,history and comparing it to european standards and societies.
It seems to me when i step back a bit and look at the developing situation,that the american federal sytem of governance was just a step in the over goal to achieve a world government.
Remember before we had communism in other places and i think that also was a social experiment.
I believe there are alot of experiments going on to determine which is the best way to rule over mankind and then to apply it globally.
In a way its progress and in some other ways its opression of free will.

I guess the situation just is how it is.
But it does look to me and has for a while like europe was/is the last big project before a big step is made to globalise governance.
Its like we have a more subtle version of federal rule,which is slowly being changed over time with more and more changes and decisions taken out of each nations hands and left down to economic and geo political competition or strategy instead by the few and their sponsors.

hooradiation

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

I think the overall goal is a united federal Europe, if they move too quick they'll scare people off it.

Well leaving aside connotations of sinister Übermensch planning this all for nefarious ends - creating a United States of Europe would be something that would have to be taken slowly anyway.
If the remnants of the 18th century empires have taught us anything you can't simply jam people together and expect it all to work out swimmingly.

Personally, I have no real problem with a USE as long as the road is long, slow and the ability to exit is available to all.
The latter being something that was set out in the treaty of Lisbon as an aside.

namloc1980

jackiebaron wrote: »

Deny it all you want. This is how these changes happen. Scare the beejaysus out of people and you can impose anything on them. I'm guessing that you have always called people who predict a united states of europe 'tin foil hat merchants'.

Well now it's slowly happening and you're just in denial.

I happen to be someone who is pro-European integration so you haven't a bloody clue what you are talking about but that doesn't really surprise. Now I'm pretty annoyed with myself for taking you off ignore list, but back on you go again.

Stinicker

USE USE USE, nah doesn't have the same ring to it.

Darlughda

Stinicker wrote: »

USE USE USE, nah doesn't have the same ring to it.

You will get used to it. Then it'll just roll off the tongue.

Yes, indeed, it does seem that Nic and Angie decide whats going to happen next. In the best interests of Europe, of course.:(

digme

namloc1980 wrote: »

I happen to be someone who is pro-European integration so you haven't a bloody clue what you are talking about but that doesn't really surprise. Now I'm pretty annoyed with myself for taking you off ignore list, but back on you go again.

Are you pro multiculturalism? You do realise it is an utter failure?

Undergod

digme wrote: »

Are you pro multiculturalism? You do realise it is an utter failure?

What do you mean by multiculturalism, and in what way do you think it has failed?

Not agreeing or disagreeing, just trying to establish what you mean.

Monty Burnz

What do people have against a federalist Europe? I'm not sure where I stand, but everyone else seems pretty sure they hate the idea.

Why?

Torakx

Because of the inevitable.
I know your going to ask why to that too but surely you know where im going when you hear mention of the U.S.A and its federal system.
The european version obviously wouldnt be exactly the same.It would be better suited to the needs of those who form it,which might be even more worrying depending on who is really in charge.
Bilderberg type think tanks?Corperations?Rich families? Elected politicians? Who knows for sure....I dont.
But i doubt its going to end with world peace without any serious oppression of free will.

Monty Burnz

Torakx wrote: »

Because of the inevitable.

....uh...the inevitable what? Improvements in living standards?

Torakx wrote: »

I know your going to ask why to that too but surely you know where im going when you hear mention of the U.S.A and its federal system.
The european version obviously wouldnt be exactly the same.It would be better suited to the needs of those who form it,which might be even more worrying depending on who is really in charge.
Bilderberg type think tanks?Corperations?Rich families? Elected politicians? Who knows for sure....I dont.
But i doubt its going to end with world peace without any serious oppression of free will.

I'm still not sure what you are referring to. Do you mean the problem will be that we will have a federal government of some sort?

shadowninty

Politicians like Merkel are hardly part of some grand conspiracy to force a federal Europe upon us judging by their actions of late. We have lost the great European visionaries...

Jeboa Safari

Anyone looking at Vincent Browne last night? Stephen Donnelly said he asked Ajai Chopra what if the people don't want to head twoards a Federal European superstate, would we continue on as we are or go back to before the Euro, and Chopra said a way would be found to go forward with a fiscal union, whether the people want it or not

studiorat

digme wrote: »

Are you pro multiculturalism? You do realise it is an utter failure?

It is? News to me. Why is it a failure?