Does the clinical indemnity scheme cover self-employed locum NCHDs?

take everything

Hi.
The locum agencies at the moment are using an accountancy company called CXC to facilitate payment to their locum NCHDs.
Locums who get paid via CXC are technically self-employed (because CXC set up a limited company for each locum).

What are the implications for medical indemnity for self-employed NCHDs in this way.
Does the Clinical Indemnity Scheme cover these self-employed locum NCHDs.

This suggests you have to be employed by a healthcare agency (ie HSE) to be covered by CIS.
Can anyone shed light on this.
Thanks.

RobFowl

No as your are an employee of the agency rather than the HSE you'd need MPS or alt cover for this sort of work.

take everything

RobFowl wrote: »

No as your are an employee of the agency rather than the HSE you'd need MPS or alt cover for this sort of work.

Thanks.
No i got MDU cover.
It's just the agencies have changed how they pay people recently.
Before when you were with a locum agency you definitely weren't self-employed; I was always assured by the locum agencies that CIS would cover you if working as a locum (in a public hospital atleast).

But now the agencies mostly use CXC (where, because of their set up you are technically self-employed) instead of the locum agencies paying people directly as before.

Now that this makes NCHD locums explicitly self-employed, just wondering about the consequences for indemnity.
Admittedly if it does mean no CIS cover, MDU on it's own wouldn't be great.

drkpower

It is almost certain that such NCHDs are covered.

The legislation talks of actions against certain State authorities (ie. Hospitals) relating to the provision of, or failure to provide, a professional medical service at a certain place (ie. a Hospital) or by a person who is engaged by a State authority.

The legislation doesnt concern itself with how people working in Hospitals are employed or remunerated.

If you want to be sure, call the CIS and ask.

dissed doc

take everything wrote: »

Hi.


This suggests you have to be employed by a healthcare agency (ie HSE) to be covered by CIS.
Can anyone shed light on this.
Thanks.

If you are working in a HSE facility you are covered by the CIS, unless it's drastically different to the NHS where agency locums are covered under NHS CIS-equivalent. How you are paid or employed is not relevant.

MPS is for practice outside the HSE including private hospitals - or at least that was always my understanding. But, it's a good idea anyway, as the CIS doesn't give you any special advice on the dubious situations you may find yourself in in the HSE, and they will also provide medicolegal courses, etc., . Basically, a neutral party with regard to questions as to medical legal problems is a good idea.

drzhivago

CIS covers the post not the person

How you are paid not relevant, Ring CIS if unsure

More important issue how do you have MDU or MPS, you are not entitled to supplemental membership if not in a FULL TIME NCHD job, thus should be paying FULL RATE NCHD membership which is quite expensive

To disagree with another poster MPS is not just for practice outside HSE it also covers issues relevant to work and also a good source of advice, I have rung them a few times and they have been excellent each time. CIS covers financial consquences of negligence but doesnt cover criminal if charged with criminal offence such as assault (doing procedure against some ones wishes), manslaughter etc

sam34

I'm with the mdu and altho it is pricey at my level I think it's invaluable.

ive rung them a few times and they are always helpful.

SaschaKyiv

Hi,

I wasn't aware that locums were being asked by agencies to set up as a company and so be self employed. This places a whole raft of red tape and admin on the locums themselves.

Do you know from personal experience/colleagues, is it all locum work via an agency that will require a company to be set up?

Apologies for transgressing slightly from the original post.

Sascha.

drrkpd

SaschaKyiv wrote: »

Hi,

I wasn't aware that locums were being asked by agencies to set up as a company and so be self employed. This places a whole raft of red tape and admin on the locums themselves.

Do you know from personal experience/colleagues, is it all locum work via an agency that will require a company to be set up?

Apologies for transgressing slightly from the original post.

Sascha.

Locum agencies will not pay you unless you bill them through a company. In practice it is not a lot of red tape at all and you can be set up very easily. Do shop around because for example Icon Accounting only charges 95/month and not a percentage whereas CXC does charge a percentage of your pay though it is capped. Icon definitely deal with Locum Express which is the major provider of locums and I see no problem with any of the other agencies. So it is painless but the revenue insist on it so as tax is paid correctly and on time.

RobFowl

drrkpd wrote: »

Locum agencies will not pay you unless you bill them through a company. In practice it is not a lot of red tape at all and you can be set up very easily. Do shop around because for example Icon Accounting only charges 95/month and not a percentage whereas CXC does charge a percentage of your pay though it is capped. Icon definitely deal with Locum Express which is the major provider of locums and I see no problem with any of the other agencies. So it is painless but the revenue insist on it so as tax is paid correctly and on time.

It's not the revenue who insist on it. They consider the locum employed by the agency and the agencies use the company system to get around this.
It's a system which is controversial and has not yet been tested legally.
Out of interest the revenue do not accept the term locum as having any meaning.....

drrkpd

Sure you must be right. All I know is that the locum agencies won't pay you directly or PAYE so you have to engage a firm to send invoices or set up your own company.
I thought revenue were taking a huge interest in GP locums and how they have been paid but that is not my area.

take everything

FWIW, CIS confirmed the Clinical Indemnity Scheme covers locums working in this way (ie when working in the HSE).
Thanks.

RobFowl

drrkpd wrote: »

I thought revenue were taking a huge interest in GP locums and how they have been paid but that is not my area.

They insist that the practice using the locum employs them (even if only doing 2 hours!). Some locums are setting up companies and invoicing as a way around this.
I'm aware the revenue are taking an interest in this and monitoring it but to date have not decided to oppose it.