Help with my Staffe!!!!

cocoemma

We have a black retriever cross he is 3 years old, myself and my partner got a Staffe in November 2010. The two dogs get on well, they play together and eat beside each other etc. The Staffe is not a year yet till October but he has got quite strong and is quite big now. Even with his size again they still play in fact all the Staffe wants to do is play (still in puppy mode). Now the issue is.. a month ago I brought home two big bones (my fathers a butcher) the two bones had been cooked and they had a little bit of meat on them. I gave them each a bone and the older back dog went to sniff the bone belonging to the Staffe and the Staffe started to growl and show his teeth he then went for the older dog (the older dog was growling also) with horrible yapping and barking quite scary to listen to. I intervened straight away and give out to them and took the bones both off them. The Staffe stopped and I sent them both into their beds. Now last week I had left over chicken for their evening food I divided up the chicken into their bowels and mixed it with their normal food. I have a routine with them, I stand holding the two bowels they sit I place the bowels on the ground and I wait a for about a minute they tell them to eat. They both dived into their food the Staffe finished his chicken and moved over to the the older dogs bowels and was growling and started to bark, showing his teeth again and chased the other dog away. The older dog seems to be quite bewildered he barked back but the Staffe went for him, I again intervened and sent the Staffe to his bed and stood there while the older dog finished his own food. Now to yesterday. My partner was out the back with the two of them. The Staffe was playing with a twig that he found in the garden, the older dog took it off him and ran around the garden the Staffe couldn’t catch him and because the older dog is much taller then him stuck his head up in the air so the Staffe couldn’t reach and had to jump up to get the twig, the Staffe then lost it.. again his teeth flared up, he was barking and growling (it’s a horrible noise). My partner stopped them from fighting and that was it.. Thats evening about two hours later it was feeding time for them. We had chicken for our dinner and I warned my partner that they might fight over the food but he said it was ok. We dished out half and half and did our routine and gave them their food, the Staffe finished his and moved over to the older dogs bowel and was growling quite aggressively the older dog barked at him and the Staffe lost it again, he jumped on the older dog growling and biting him and the older dog ran off behind the table to hide and the Staffe followed him we were trying to stop them but we had no control, I through water on them both to snap them out of it and he went into his bed with his head down like he knew he did wrong. My other dog stayed were he was, I went over to him to check he was ok and he was bleeding. Because he is black I couldn’t find were he was bleeding from, I had blood on my clothes, the floor and eventually I found a cut on his ear. I held it with tissue to stop the bleeding.

I am sick, my partner was sick after what had happened. We were both shaking and shocked. I want to re home the Staffe now as I’m afraid if we have children and the child puts his hand into his food he’ll lose it. I know, I know some people will say oh you should have done your research. I can assure you we did our research, we are constantly training him actually both of them, they are obedient but there are some things to be worked on, i.e. barking when someone knocks at the door etc. I am afraid that we don’t have enough knowledge of the Staffe and what should we do in the instance of dominance over food. I don’t know what to do. My partner has vowed to work on him with training and walking but is this good enough? Does anyone have any advice.

The Sweeper

Feed the dogs separately. Get a qualified trainer in to teach you how to manage a dog who resource guards. Once they've started that kind of behaviour it's a bad idea to persist with the normal routine because it just gives them an opportunity to escalate. Change the routine, split them up with food, monitor it, get some professional advice.

Whispered

Yes it is good enough - training will help with this. You also need to set your dog up for success. You know he can be food aggressive so you have to stop feeding them together. This will ease stress for your other dog too and help towards repairing their relations. I have 2 boys, a staffie cross and a staffie and they get along brilliantly, but they are not fed together. Unless I'm feeding from my hand.

Food aggression is not a staffie thing - any dog can display it so please don't put it down to the dogs breed, or feel as if people will say you didn't research. Also - while I would always say be careful with kids and dogs, dog aggression does not have to = human aggression.

How does the dog react when you take food off him?
Where do you feed them? Near their beds? Are they close together?
Do you ever hand feed and take turns?
Do the dogs know "leave it" and will they listen?
Are they neutered? If not this could be contributing to the problem.

Sorry for all the questions

As a start I'd stop feeding them in the same room, or else make sure they have a very good "leave it" so if you feed them in the same room, you can supervise and when one goes sniffing at anothers bowl you can stop him. I'd also look at crate training if I was you.

Work on hand feeding with them together taking turns. As in say the name, and give treat - the other has to wait for their treat. Then when you're putting down bowls you can clearly let the dog know that this bowl is for this dog.

Try not to fret too much, or to jump to any rash decisions. It's a very common problem that can be worked on.

barbiegirl

Defo not a staffie thing, I have a Jack Russell cross who is treat aggressive. We'd never chance a bone as we know all out war would entail. We got a trainer in and we work consistently on the treat agrression and he now lets us take most treats away and we give them back, the tastier stuff we just pat his head and rub him down we will work up to taking it. Work and lots of it and also of course when you have a kid you can't leave them unsupervised with either dog and they neeed to be taught manners, so that means not taking the dogs food or being at the bowl.
When we know kids are coming around we ensure anything that could cause a problem is up and away and I attach him to me by his lead, for two reasons, one he's over friendly to little ones and knocks them over licking and two just in case a treat issue rears it's head. It protects him and them.

DBB

OP, The Sweeper's post is short and sweet, but says exactly what needs to happen.
The aggression escalated when there was really nice food on the go. Also, making the two dogs wait for their food for a whole minute, whilst they're near each other, is very likely to bring their frustration levels up very high, making them much more likely to snark off at each other over a small thing that wouldn't normally result in aggression.
Your Staffie is resource guarding, he sounds like he is a bit on the impulsive side and not great at dealing with frustration. All of this can be dealt with both from behavioural modification point of view, and a management point of view.
Don't give up yet, and don't necessarily jump to the conclusion that the Staffie is going to be aggressive to your kids.
Definitely one for professional help. If you tell us roughly where you're located we may be able to recommend a good behaviourist for you.

aisher

The first thing I would do is feed the dogs seperately - in different rooms if possible. The younger dog obviously feels he is the 'pack' leader and sees the older dog as being the follower. With your older dog cowering away the staffie is in control. Is he showing any agression towards you when you feed him. Do you drop the bowl and move away pronto or do you make your dog sit and wait until you say he can eat. The staffie should recognise that you are the one in charge - if he is showing any snarling towards you it has to stop now. Its a good idea to 'handle' the food before its placed in the bowl so your scent is all over it - and you should be able to take the bowl away whenever you want - you are the leader and its your food. He is still very much a pup and the training has to start now - it wont get better, just worse if this behaviour is allowed to continue. Any dog - regardless of breed can be agressive with food - but with a strong dog you cant lose control. If it were my dog I would seek professional help.

cocoemma

Whispered wrote: »

Yes it is good enough - training will help with this. You also need to set your dog up for success. You know he can be food aggressive so you have to stop feeding them together. This will ease stress for your other dog too and help towards repairing their relations. I have 2 boys, a staffie cross and a staffie and they get along brilliantly, but they are not fed together. Unless I'm feeding from my hand. Thank you I'm delighted to hear from another Staffe owner,

Food aggression is not a staffie thing - any dog can display it so please don't put it down to the dogs breed, or feel as if people will say you didn't research. Also - while I would always say be careful with kids and dogs, dog aggression does not have to = human aggression. Thank you, I agree with what your saying, I think I paniced and to be honest fell into the mind set of sterotyping.. I think because they are so strong and teeth are so sharp that I did put the incident down to thier breed. I actually took your advice and looked into food agression and yes it does occur in all dogs. Yes I do agree, I'd never leave a dog alone with a child, I was thinking if we had children the dog would turn, but of course if their well trained it shouldn't happen in my presence.

How does the dog react when you take food off him? He is fine, he actually wags his tail like he's confused, why is she taking my food from me!
Where do you feed them? in the kitchen there is a water bowel between them and we've always fed them beside each other since Buddy (Staffe) was a pup.. Near their beds? no no Are they close together? emm.. yes. with the water bowel between them I suppose 2 foot apart so quite close i suppose.
Do you ever hand feed and take turns? yes I have, I had them both sitting across the room and call them both, they come over to me and they sit then I give them the treat, I say ''leave it'' and they look away and they i say ''good boys'' here.. and I give them the treat at the same time. Now I do, do it separetly as in everything above but then give them the treat separetly and they would be fine. Buddy (Staffe) would sniff at the treat as I'm giving it to Blue (the cross) but he has never attacked him,
Do the dogs know "leave it" and will they listen? Yes, they actually look away and stay very stillm then they have thier treat..
Are they neutered? no, they are both male, I'm sure you've got that by now, ha just thought I'd mention it.. If not this could be contributing to the problem.

Sorry for all the questions absolutly no problem, thank you for taking the time to read my '' book'' about my problem... i really appreciate it...

As a start I'd stop feeding them in the same room, or else make sure they have a very good "leave it" so if you feed them in the same room, you can supervise and when one goes sniffing at anothers bowl you can stop him. I'd also look at crate training if I was you. Yes I actually spoke to my partner tonight I got him to read all the posts here and he agrees too.. to feed separetly... My father also had suggested that we feed the older dog first and get the Staffe to sit and watch him eat then give Buddy his food.. Do you think this would create more of an issue ?

Work on hand feeding with them together taking turns. As in say the name, and give treat - the other has to wait for their treat. Then when you're putting down bowls you can clearly let the dog know that this bowl is for this dog. well we are looking into professional training, clearly we have reached our limit, we need guidelines from someone with experience who can show us the warning signs so to speak and help us to train them effectively.. you what I'm afriad of ruining him, it may sound stupid but I want the best for them both and to be happy...

Try not to fret too much, or to jump to any rash decisions. It's a very common problem that can be worked on.

yes, it prob is but at this moment in time I am stressing out.. dont get me wrong, I dont usually give up, I just think yesterday frightened me.. us even..

cocoemma

barbiegirl wrote: »

Defo not a staffie thing, I have a Jack Russell cross who is treat aggressive. We'd never chance a bone as we know all out war would entail. We got a trainer in and we work consistently on the treat agrression and he now lets us take most treats away and we give them back, the tastier stuff we just pat his head and rub him down we will work up to taking it. Work and lots of it and also of course when you have a kid you can't leave them unsupervised with either dog and they neeed to be taught manners, so that means not taking the dogs food or being at the bowl.
When we know kids are coming around we ensure anything that could cause a problem is up and away and I attach him to me by his lead, for two reasons, one he's over friendly to little ones and knocks them over licking and two just in case a treat issue rears it's head. It protects him and them.

Thank you.. I'm so glad to hear that it's an issue with all dogs, Whispered had told me that also that it sounds like food agression I looked it up today and yes Im delighted to hear that

cocoemma

DBB wrote: »

OP, The Sweeper's post is short and sweet, but says exactly what needs to happen.
The aggression escalated when there was really nice food on the go. Also, making the two dogs wait for their food for a whole minute, whilst they're near each other, is very likely to bring their frustration levels up very high, making them much more likely to snark off at each other over a small thing that wouldn't normally result in aggression.
Your Staffie is resource guarding, he sounds like he is a bit on the impulsive side and not great at dealing with frustration. All of this can be dealt with both from behavioural modification point of view, and a management point of view.
Don't give up yet, and don't necessarily jump to the conclusion that the Staffie is going to be aggressive to your kids.
Definitely one for professional help. If you tell us roughly where you're located we may be able to recommend a good behaviourist for you.

Yes, thank you,.. we are going to seek professional help, as I said to Whispered I think we have reached our limit.. yes I think he is on the impulsive side alright... I never mentioned we have two cats as well.. so our house is quite full with distraction but regardless of that we do, do quite well with training but obviously not good enough I think because the Staffe is now nearly a year maybe he's trying to work his way the ranks in the pack.. we're in kildare...

cocoemma

aisher wrote: »

The first thing I would do is feed the dogs seperately - in different rooms if possible. The younger dog obviously feels he is the 'pack' leader and sees the older dog as being the follower. With your older dog cowering away the staffie is in control. Is he showing any agression towards you when you feed him. Do you drop the bowl and move away pronto or do you make your dog sit and wait until you say he can eat. The staffie should recognise that you are the one in charge - if he is showing any snarling towards you it has to stop now. Its a good idea to 'handle' the food before its placed in the bowl so your scent is all over it - and you should be able to take the bowl away whenever you want - you are the leader and its your food. He is still very much a pup and the training has to start now - it wont get better, just worse if this behaviour is allowed to continue. Any dog - regardless of breed can be agressive with food - but with a strong dog you cant lose control. If it were my dog I would seek professional help.

Thanks Aisher, no he hasn't shown agression to us when we give him food, we get them to sit and they don't move even when we put his food down I wait about a minute, like wash my hands dry them then tell them to eat and they start eating, he is fine with the normal food.. it's just nice human food!! I suppose we just need to stop that and feed them separetly... Yes we have discussed and we will be seeking professional help... EXACTLY I agree we can't lose control of a strong dog.. I mean he's not a year yet but he is strong, you can see the muscles on his legs.. so now is time to get this sorted..

cyrusdvirus

Emma, whereabouts in Kildare are you?
If on the 'Dublin side' i can PM you my trainer. She spent 2 hours with me and Gibbs this time 2 years ago and by the end of those 2 hours he was a totally different dog, had better manners, knew how to behave etc. He was a rescue dog, that someone had trained in the basics, but couldn't really control him.

Training is an on going thing though. Getting someone to come down to you for 2 hours is a very bare basics start.

DBB

You're lucky in kildare to have access to a couple of excellent one-to-one behaviourists who are really good in aggression cases.
On that note, check out Emmaline at www.citizencanineireland.com, a really good behavioural expert, doesn't cost the ends of the earth, and will teach you so much about your dogs!
The whole your dog is trying to dominate belief has been utterly disproven, your dog isn't trying to "dominate" anyone in the sense that he's not trying to take over the world, lying there planning his next manoeuvre!
He's guarding food around the other dog because if he does, there's a good chance he'll get more food. He does it because it works for him. This is not the same as being dominant... Kids fight over toys all the time, for the same reasons dogs fight over food, but nobody calls the kids dominant! Pushy, perhaps, but it's not the same thing as dominant.
I think it can be harmful for an owner to be told their dog is trying to dominate them, or overthrow them, because it may make an owner lose trust in their dog.

barbiegirl

It was Emmaline that we used and she was excellent :-) Totally agree on the domination thing, it makes me think of Pinky and The Brain, "and tomorrow Pinky we will take over the world", it's actually more like, "I like this food, it tastes lovely, no you can't bloody well have it and not only that but twice as much would be great, give me your too :-)" 10 minutes later "lets play ball"

cocoemma

barbiegirl wrote: »

It was Emmaline that we used and she was excellent :-) Totally agree on the domination thing, it makes me think of Pinky and The Brain, "and tomorrow Pinky we will take over the world", it's actually more like, "I like this food, it tastes lovely, no you can't bloody well have it and not only that but twice as much would be great, give me your too :-)" 10 minutes later "lets play ball"

HA HA HA HA HA HA now that made me laugh out loud...