How do you fuel on a long run?

loughie

I have run 4 marathons now and really struggle with the long run in training. I have a belt just for gels\bars and run with two 250 ml hand held bottles. Holding two bottles is a pain. I am emptying the tank after 11\12 miles and really struggle to get home. I am usually well hydrated and carb'd up before my long run. Thinking about a 2L camelbak just for long runs. Any ideas? How do other people keep fueled up?

Killerz

I'm a fan of the camelbak. I got an unbranded similar thing in argos a couple of years ago for 20 quid, and thats still what i use. Not as easy to fill etc as the branded ones, but good nonetheless. Trained for a lot of marathons using it. Never thought something like that wud workmfor me but it does.

Its 1.5 litres, with a pocket in the front which fits a spare hat/tee etc.

Here in toronto summers, its too hot to use it, so i use two handheld 500ml bottles with wrist straps (typical ultra bottles), and refill at fountains. Forget about those little bottles....too much hassle imho

RacoonQueen

Nothing. No water or gels. Can never understand why people feel the need to take on so much water during training, do you take on that much while racing?

How much water do you drink in general during the day? Do you keep hydrated?

Rantan

i use a belt with 4 180ml bottles and a little pouch. normally I bring 1 x lucozade, 2 water and 1x coconut water for the last mile or two of a long run for quicker hydration. Not sure if all the hype is true about coconut water but I like it anyway and it does me no harm. I normally bring a square or two of chocolate and some jellies in the pouch. Lindt do a really nice dark chocolate with sea salt so you can replace some lost salts with the choccie! Its really good.

macinalli

I've found that anything over 13 miles I have to bring water - the dehydration headaches otherwise are just not worth it. Am currently training for Liverpool and this time round I've been using a running belt with 2 of the small bottles. I'd also stop at about 10 miles to buy a sports drink and take that gradually over the next 30 mins. So far I haven't used any gels - not planned, I just forgot about them! However I know the gels that I like - I think I'll keep training without them and then use them on race day.

Cabaal

For a 20mile previously I've carried 4 gels and 500ml of liquid,

I have no places to stop and buy drinks or anything on my LSR as its all in the countryside but I find as long as I'm hydrated properly before hand the above does me fine

Did a 15mile run yesterday with one gel and 500ml liquid, felt fine until around 13mile mark at which point I was loosing energy but tbh I wasn't hydrated properly to begin with and it was a pretty sunny day yesterday and all. (no headaches though)

As RacoonQueen has said are you drinking enough day to day are you actually properly hydrated before hand?

TFBubendorfer

You can always run loops and stash water at one pace.

loughie

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Nothing. No water or gels. Can never understand why people feel the need to take on so much water during training, do you take on that much while racing?

How much water do you drink in general during the day? Do you keep hydrated?

For 10 miles and under training or racing I could do without water or gels. Half-marathon I would likely take a sports drink or one gel. I'm training for DCM and I think for the marathon I have to take on more carbs\water.

Ran DCM last year and took a gel every 30 mins and took on whatever sports drink (plenty of it on route if i remember) and water was available. Hit the ould wall at about 21/22 miles but PB'd. Ran CCM this year and there was no sports drink until halfway. I kind of bonk'd from halfway onwards and came in 15 mins slower than DCM.

Krusty_Clown

loughie wrote: »

For 10 miles and under training or racing I could do without water or gels. Half-marathon I would likely take a sports drink or one gel. I'm training for DCM and I think for the marathon I have to take on more carbs\water.

Ran DCM last year and took a gel every 30 mins and took on whatever sports drink (plenty of it on route if i remember) and water was available. Hit the ould wall at about 21/22 miles but PB'd. Ran CCM this year and there was no sports drink until halfway. I kind of bonk'd from halfway onwards and came in 15 mins slower than DCM.

Hi Loughie, are you sure it's nutrition/hydration is causing your problems? Are you training optimally for the marathon? What you took for DCM sounds over the top to me. What kind of long runs do you typically do in preparation for the marathon?

shotgunmcos

Like RC said if you are properly hydrated and feulled you should be ok with nothing. Its horses for courses though. I'm generally good with nothing up to 2 hours but got it wrong yesterday. It was about 4pm by the time I got out (usually do them early morning). I hadn't drank enough during the day and it as warm and humid out. I would have needed more water than usual during the day anyway. Cue MCOS sitting on the couch later with a dehydration headache, aches and feeling generally sorry for himself. You live and learn eh Eat and drink whatever you need to make your LR comfortable. The objective is to be out on your feet for X length of time primarily. As you get closer to the Marathon and may have some PMP stuff in the LR, practice race day nutrition...

elvis jones

I did 14 miles the other night and used 1 gel at about 8 miles and 1 bottle of energy drink i stashed in the ditch and did some loops to get back to it.

Found it hard to take the energy drink while running, water is easier to get down but i know i have to get it into me on my LSR before using it in DCM.

KentuckyPete

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

You can always run loops and stash water at one pace.

Bang on. I set a stash point for water and start the run from there. I run 3 miles in one direction, turn, then 3 miles back. Then 3 miles in another direction, turn, then 3 miles back to the stash.

That gives me a 12-mile lap where I pass the stash twice. Two such laps covers any marathon LSR.

Worried about getting to the stash point to start the run? (assuming it's not your front garden) Cycle - it will loosen you up and the spin home will be a nice recovery.

Worried about stash security? Drive your car to the stash point and lock the goods in the boot.

I carry the gels on an LSR to simulate race conditions but don't think I could manage a couple of kilos of water on my back - especially when it's not necessary.

loughie

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Hi Loughie, are you sure it's nutrition/hydration is causing your problems? Are you training optimally for the marathon? What you took for DCM sounds over the top to me. What kind of long runs do you typically do in preparation for the marathon?

Hi Krusty, Followed Adv Marathoning upto 55 miles roughly for DCM10, 3:03:38. Avg mileage was 40 a week. 3x20 miles. For CCM11 winged it a bit Avg mileage 34 a week with 3x20 miles, 3:18 .......really suffered from 16 mile onwards. Maybe mileage trumps everything else.

Yesterday 15 miles in evening and last 3/4 miles was a real struggle with 1 gel and 500 ml powerade. Was well fed and well hydrated. Did 8 miles on Sat. 41 miles last week.

I struggle to get near race pace during training! But race day must be the adrenalin or the mind!

Stark

I would take a few hundred ml of water on LSRs if it was a warm day but that's a personal thing. I tend to need more water than most people as I sweat a lot and always hated the heat. (Getting better as I try to man up and schedule my training runs for the hottest periods during the day but I still don't enjoy the heat the way some people seem to do). I do wait until I'm actually thirsty before drinking, I don't buy into the "drink before you're thirsty thing" and I have heard that it can be sometimes dangerous if you overdo it.

I wouldn't take any sort of food, energy drink or energy gel on a 3 hr run tbh. The only research I've seen that says electrolyte energy drinks are beneficial has come from the sports drinks companies themselves. Any independent research I've seen says that pure water is better as sweat is hypotonic and the human body is very good at signalling thirst and keeping its fluid levels in check. Taking electrolytes on boards means the body needs a lot of extra fluids in order to balance itself out. With plain water you get away with carrying less. I've tested the theory out on both training runs and races and I found in the races especially that I ran much better with just the water.

Krusty_Clown

loughie wrote: »

I struggle to get near race pace during training! But race day must be the adrenalin or the mind!

Presumably you don't try and achieve race pace on your long runs though, right? Just the prescribed PMP sessions in the plan.

loughie

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Presumably you don't try and achieve race pace on your long runs though, right? Just the prescribed PMP sessions in the plan.

I have tried the race pace long runs but never get near it tbh. That's why i'm usually surprised in actual races at my race pace compared to my training pace

Krusty_Clown

loughie wrote: »

I have tried the race pace long runs but never get near it tbh. That's why i'm usually surprised in actual races at my race pace compared to my training pace

If you cannot achieve planned race pace during training, how do you manage with the other P&D sessions, that are faster than race pace? e.g. the V02max and LT/Tempo runs?

If you're struggling to reach target race pace during PMP training sessions, and you find yourself blowing up during the latter parts of the actual race, it sounds like your target is too aggressive, or you haven't done the necessary preparatory work. The way a plan like P&D works, is that it is a set of building blocks that progress you through the various training phases to get you ready for the marathon. If you can't hit the 8 miles PMP session, then you certainly won't be able to hit the 10 miles and eventual 12 miles PMP sessions. You won't be training yourself to run at that specific pace during the marathon, if you can't achieve it during training.

Might be better to take your target down a notch to something more achievable, and as the plan progresses, speed up if the right indicators are there.

loughie

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Might be better to take your target down a notch to something more achievable, and as the plan progresses, speed up if the right indicators are there.

I know I'm stretching my targets a bit but I'm glutton for punishment True my tempo runs are never what P&D prescribe usually 30/40 secs slower.

Going to take everything onboard and set my target time based on my training rather than what I'd like to run. Thanks all

Krusty_Clown

loughie wrote: »

I know I'm stretching my targets a bit but I'm glutton for punishment True my tempo runs are never what P&D prescribe usually 30/40 secs slower.

Going to take everything onboard and set my target time based on my training rather than what I'd like to run. Thanks all

I'm very guilty of it too loughie, and tend to set my target in advance, based on my preferred finish-time, rather than any existing indicators (e.g. race performance). It generally works out fine (I've been lucky). When I hit those PMP sessions, it's a good indicator to me that I'm on the right track.

If you're dubious about your ability to start and finish the race at a specific pace, then you may be better off starting a little more conservatively, and aim to pick up the pace later in the race. You won't hit your original (pre-training) target, but it's unlikely you'll blow up, and will run a much better race.

foxyboxer

I run with 2 €2 coins. Stop in a shop on the pre-defined route and get a 500ml lucozade. Then after 14 miles get another one in a different shop and use bins along the way to dump them. No one bats an eyelid.

elvis jones

foxyboxer wrote: »

I run with 2 €2 coins. Stop in a shop on the pre-defined route and get a 500ml lucozade. Then after 14 miles get another one in a different shop and use bins along the way to dump them. No one bats an eyelid.

Hard to do that in the middle of no where.

finisklin

I do my LSR very early in the morning. Usually start before 7am, I have a banana and take some gels. No breakfast. I find the gels very severe on my stomach but take them regardless as I put it down to no breakfast.

On the 20 milers I do the loop trick and plant 2X 1ltr water bottles (usually at the car) which works fine. Have to agree with some posters and the idea of carrying bottles is not race conditions. I appreciate that people have to get there water on board too. Whatever works for you....

Micilin Muc

I commute with this bag which has a separate compartment for a hydration system. I don't want to run the DCM with it but I may have no choice as I'm so used to drinking 2 litres on an LSR (sometimes more if I know of a waterpump along the route).

It has plenty of space for a phone, keys and a few bananas, without the bag bouncing around.

Slogger Jogger

Nothing. Nada. I can manage long runs without any water. I got a camelbak a few years ago. Used it once. Couldn't abide it. Prefer to run as light as possible and I haven't bonked on a training run yet. Everyone is different I suppose. So its down to what you need yourself. Find what suits you.

walshb

I would say on average take on 500 ml of fluid per hour of running.

There have been many studies carried out and some have shown that over ingestion can be as dangerous as dehydration. Never force yourself to drink.
If you feel a slosh in the stomach do not take on more fluid.

If you are fairly hydrated before starting then this goes a long way to helping you last the pace efficiently and healthily. Do not over ingest before the race to try and prepare yourself. Drink as normal and keep hydrated as normal.