Dublin now the 3rd best hurling team in the country?

spankadamonkee

On todays performance ud have to yes. Gave Tipp a great run for their money.

ShamoBuc

Definately and with their minor and u21's still in the championship they could be there for some time.

Mushy

While they gave a great account of themselves today, I think its hard to call any team a third best in a country. They are certainly on the level with all others (ie. Glaway, Waterford, etc). Don't want to infuriate Dubs fans, but I find it hard to separate those teams.

The performance of the minors today shows they will be a continued force, with an U-21 too...well it just gets better for Dublin hurling. Just don't count on anything too early.

realdanbreen

No team outside the big 3 has won the allIreland this century. Until Dublin or anyone else for that matter does so then they will not be rated in the top 3.

Het-Field

realdanbreen wrote: »

No team outside the big 3 has won the allIreland this century. Until Dublin or anyone else for that matter does so then they will not be rated in the top 3.

TBH, I dont think there is a "Top 3". Cork cannot live on AI titles won six years ago to claim that they are the third in a tripartite hurling dynasty.

There is a "Big 2", and that includes Tipp and Kilkenny.

After that, the rankings are transient, and unascertainable. Dublin, Waterford, Galway, Cork, and Limerick are probably the closest to the "Big 2" as teams will get in this country. Depending on the success of their respective season's, the rankings sort themsleves out on a seasonal basis. Clare, Wexford, and Offaly are probably the third tier of the top dogs, while Antrim and Laois (in spite of their drubbing to Cork) make up the Premier Counties in Hurling.

teednab-el

realdanbreen wrote: »

No team outside the big 3 has won the allIreland this century. Until Dublin or anyone else for that matter does so then they will not be rated in the top 3.

I'm going to get slated here but I have to say what a pointless thread, since when have we being having threads for 3rd best team in the country? It's not as if there are awards for coming third. I'm not taking away from Dublins performance today which was superb but it has to be put into context for example, Cork reached the semi final last year, eventhough they weren't the 3rd or 4th best team in the country, there were other teams better. What Dublin have to do now is become consistent over the next few years reaching semi finals year in year out and then drive onto the final and win it. It will take time but Dublin are looking promising.

teednab-el

Het-Field wrote: »

realdanbreen wrote: »

No team outside the big 3 has won the allIreland this century. Until Dublin or anyone else for that matter does so then they will not be rated in the top 3.

TBH, I dont think there is a "Top 3". Cork cannot live on AI titles won six years ago to claim that they are the third in a tripartite hurling dynasty.

There is a "Big 2", and that includes Tipp and Kilkenny.

After that, the rankings are transient, and unascertainable. Dublin, Waterford, Galway, Cork, and Limerick are probably the closest to the "Big 2" as teams will get in this country. Depending on the success of their respective season's, the rankings sort themsleves out on a seasonal basis. Clare, Wexford, and Offaly are probably the third tier of the top dogs, while Antrim and Laois (in spite of their drubbing to Cork) make up the Premier Counties in Hurling.

In fairness the same couldn't be said for Tipp before last year as they were living off an All Ireland that they won in 2001.

Het-Field

teednab-el wrote: »

In fairness the same couldn't be said for Tipp before last year as they were living off an All Ireland that they won in 2001.

True. But at that point there was a "Big 1" and that was it. Kilkenny were that much better than everybody else.

Daysha

People need to understand the difference between the 'top 3' and the 'big 3'. The big 3 is of course Kilkenny, Cork and Tipp and will continue to be for years to come. The top 3 are the 3 best teams in the country at the moment and definitely Dublin deserve to be there. At the moment I see it as:

Tipp
Kilkenny
Dublin
Waterford
Galway
Cork
Limerick
Clare
Offaly
Wexford

teednab-el

Daysha wrote: »

People need to understand the difference between the 'top 3' and the 'big 3'. The big 3 is of course Kilkenny, Cork and Tipp and will continue to be for years to come. The top 3 are the 3 best teams in the country at the moment and definitely Dublin deserve to be there. At the moment I see it as:

Tipp
Kilkenny
Dublin
Waterford
Galway
Cork
Limerick
Clare
Offaly
Wexford

Limerick deserve to in front of Cork this year imo.

Carthy303

teednab-el wrote: »

I'm going to get slated here but I have to say what a pointless thread, since when have we being having threads for 3rd best team in the country? It's not as if there are awards for coming third. I'm not taking away from Dublins performance today which was superb but it has to be put into context for example, Cork reached the semi final last year, eventhough they weren't the 3rd or 4th best team in the country, there were other teams better. What Dublin have to do now is become consistent over the next few years reaching semi finals year in year out and then drive onto the final and win it. It will take time but Dublin are looking promising.

Completely agree. This was the Dubs 1st semi-final and they gave one hell of an account of themselves but they must drive on and reach more to be rated as a good team and no doubt they will either with Daly at the helm. The guys a winner and won't be satisfied with losing a semi-final, as creditable an achievement it actually is.

Syferus

At this very moment it's hard to make any objective case that Dublin aren't the third best team in the country.

Waterford have been on a higher level for longer; Cork have won All-Ireland titles in the last decade and Galway have flattered to deceive but at full strength right now Dublin would fancy their chances against any of those teams. Who knows if that'll even be the case after next year's league, but for now Dublin can be satisfied with this year's shift.

hinault

No doubt we've improved : I'm not sure we're 3rd in this country.

Yes a league win and championship semi (and running Tipp close0 is more than I could have wished for.
But it is one season and one season only.

Delighted with this season (as a Dublin man)

jive

One good year doesn't make you the 3rd best I'm afraid. Waterford have been making semi's for years consistently so they're 3rd best in my book. Dublin didn't have to beat any of the big dogs so to speak to make it to that semi even though they had a good game today. Fickle sports fans jumping the gun all to quick but no surprises there. It's not particularly important anyway as Tipp and KK are still a distance ahead of the chasing pack. Waterford deserve to be #3 though and based on this year Dublin would get #4 but can they do it consistently or not is the question. Galway will have a say next year anyway I'm sure.

Live4Ever

I agree with the original poster, Dublin ARE the third best team.

This year they have won a League Final, won a Walsh Cup Final, contested a Leinster Final and made it to the semi-final. Therefore they are the only Hurling team barr Tipp and Kilkenny to actually win something notable this year (League Final).

They beat Offaly, Galway and Limerick along the way: better than them.

Waterford were comfortably beaten by Kilkenny, Dubin were not comfortably beaten by Tipp. Waterford are the only team contesting "3rd place" and due to the fact Dublin have won the league and were more impressive in the semi-final that Waterford were a week ago I think they deserve the "3rd place title.

There is no way Cork, Clare, Antrim or Wexford are better: looking back I cannot even remember anything notable about these teams this year.

Dublin lost yesterday as I felt they lacked experience and composure in the final 15mins, which was to be expected. I also think Daly left it too late to fill a 3 man full forward line for the much needed crucial goal. Tipp were rattled yesterday and that test against Dublin will benefit them against Kilkenny in September.

As for people saying previous years count, I'm sorry but they don't. Is Tiger Woods the 3rd best golfer in the world? Are Brazil the 3rd best team in the world? The answer is no. Tiger isn't even in the Top10 and Brazil are 4th. Rankings are based on current form, not what you've achieved in the past.

adrian522

Live4Ever wrote: »

.

Waterford were comfortably beaten by Kilkenny, Dubin were not comfortably beaten by Tipp.

you are kind of glossing over Dublin's Leinster final performance their to suit your argument,

In any event there is no title for third place and I wouldn't see much difference between Dublin and Waterford, and where they are at the moment, maybe Dublin ever so slightly ahead but not by much.

Live4Ever

adrian522 wrote: »

you are kind of glossing over Dublin's Leinster final performance their to suit your argument,

Although Dublin weren't great that day against Kilkenny, the were wayyyyy better than Waterford were in their provincial final.

Tipperary 7-19 Waterford 0-19
Tipperary 1-19 Dublin 0-18

Based on that I can safely assume Dublin are better than Waterford. Although I may have slightly glossed Dublins performance v Kilkenny, there is no glossing over that destruction of Waterford.

Diabhal Beag

Dubs fan were a bit too optimistic at the start of the year saying they'd run KK to a close match but they really did prove their worth yesterday. They are definitely the 3rd team. Waterford are the best of the rest. I'd probably just about put Galway ahead of Limerick and then have Cork least of the competitors for Provincials.

KK
Tipp
Dublin
Waterford
Galway
Limerick
Cork
Clare
Offaly
Wexford

KevIRL

These things are so futile, as there is only one position that matters and thats the All Ireland winners in September. However for the purpose of the debate there can be no question that Dublin are the 3rd best team. National League champions, Leinster finalists and All Ireland semi finalists. Currently there might not be a whole load between Dublin and Waterford if they were to play a championship match, but based on this season's performances and results I'd rank Dublin ahead of Waterford.

What should be far more important to Dublin hurling people than some made up 'ranking' is the talent coming through from their underage teams. Managed effectively Dublin could very well become the next big powerhouse in hurling. They will win the All Ireland within the next 3 years imo

ionadnapokot

Yes. They played some great stuff yesterday. And the Minors looked class.
Sam & Liam next year!!

Brianderunner

I'd put Galway below Limerick, Dublin and Waterford for sure. They continue to be hyped up only to crash out early year after year. I'm sick of people talking up their chances every year, when will it stop? Its almost guaranteed that they will be 3rd favourites for next years all ireland, why, i'll never know.

Limerick had a lot of bad wides against Dublin and could have won it on another day, couple that with the u21 success and we may see Limerick and Dublin closing the gap on the big 2 further next year.

derealbadger

Brianderunner wrote: »

I'd put Galway below Limerick, Dublin and Waterford for sure. They continue to be hyped up only to crash out early year after year. I'm sick of people talking up their chances every year, when will it stop? Its almost guaranteed that they will be 3rd favourites for next years all ireland, why, i'll never know.

Limerick had a lot of bad wides against Dublin and could have won it on another day, couple that with the u21 success and we may see Limerick and Dublin closing the gap on the big 2 further next year.

As a Galway man i agree with you but as to the why that's a bit different i think that the media look at certain things such as

1 one of the top 3 club championships in the country

2 number of minor and U21 titles

3 number of AI club titles

however that in Galways case does not seem to translate to AI senior success

Mountainlad

People seem to be being a bit hard on Limerick in this thread.

1. Tipp
2. Kilkenny
3. Dublin
4. Waterford
5. Limerick
6. Galway
7. Cork
8. Clare
9. Wexford
10. Offaly
11. Antrim
12. Laois
13. Westmeath
14. Carlow

Antrim maybe could be higher up as they won three games this year. I don't think the top 6 is debatable, that is how it's been this year.

bruschi

Live4Ever wrote: »

Although Dublin weren't great that day against Kilkenny, the were wayyyyy better than Waterford were in their provincial final.

Tipperary 7-19 Waterford 0-19
Tipperary 1-19 Dublin 0-18

Based on that I can safely assume Dublin are better than Waterford. Although I may have slightly glossed Dublins performance v Kilkenny, there is no glossing over that destruction of Waterford.

Kilkenny 4-17 Dublin 1-15
Kilkenny 2-19 Waterford 1-16

you could make the same point here that Waterford are better. Whilst I dont think that, using previous games where the same opposition played to try compare 2 teams hwo havent played does not work.

Personally, I think Dublin are better than Waterford, and are the third best at the moment. but really, who gives a rats ass who is third? you get nothing for being third. Dublin are making great progress, and good on them, but these kind of things of rankings are pointless.

toxicity234

yeah, there 3 this year, dublin were well beating the the LF. Waterford got Hammered in the MF.
I watch them against Offaly on the opening day and i think that was the best they play in the year. on that day there passing and movement was excellent.
Aginist galway was there poorest day, they won but should have won by a lot more.

They have to improve again next year to stay there.

Carthy303

toxicity234 wrote: »

yeah, there 3 this year, dublin were well beating the the LF. Waterford got Hammered in the MF.
I watch them against Offaly on the opening day and i think that was the best they play in the year. on that day there passing and movement was excellent.
Aginist galway was there poorest day, they won but should have won by a lot more.

They have to improve again next year to stay there.

Surely the Killkenny game was their poorest day? Can't see how winning a Leinster Semi is worse than being played off the park in a Final!

Temp Barry

I don't think I could split Dublin and Waterford in 3rd. A hypothetical 3rd place playoff would be a great game and would go down to the wire.

Likewise I don't think I could split Limerick and Galway for 5th.

I think Dublin and Limerick are both on an upward curve, and both would expect to improve next year. Probably a bit more concern about whether Waterford and Galway are capable of upping it next year. Still unearthing even one new quality starter can make a difference.

Kojak

teednab-el wrote: »

Limerick deserve to in front of Cork this year imo.

TBH, they deserve to be in front of Galway as well.

On the basis of this year, then yes Dublin should be ranked third and Waterford 4th. If it was based on the last 4 or 5 years, then Waterford would be a clear third. Actually it would be difficult to say who would be 4th - maybe Cork?

Lemlin

They'd want to be at this stage. Did I read correctly that 6 million has been invested in hurling in Dublin for the past few years?

dcr22B

Lemlin wrote: »

They'd want to be at this stage. Did I read correctly that 6 million has been invested in hurling in Dublin for the past few years?

Yes and I'm glad it has been to be honest. It's fantastic to see loads young kids going around with hurls these days. Long may it continue.

jive

Live4Ever wrote: »

As for people saying previous years count, I'm sorry but they don't. Is Tiger Woods the 3rd best golfer in the world? Are Brazil the 3rd best team in the world? The answer is no. Tiger isn't even in the Top10 and Brazil are 4th. Rankings are based on current form, not what you've achieved in the past.

Yes because these teams sports are comparable to an individual sport where the man mentioned had a bag load of personal and injury issues....

Rankings aren't based on current form. Your argument is invalid. Dublin have had one good year and people are already jumping to conclusions that great things will happen for them in the championship. If Dublin had been beaten well by Tipp then people would be arguing that teams like Limerick and Galway are better than them. It was one game. Fickle sports fans at their best. See what next year brings and hopefully Waterford or Dublin catch up with the other 2

corny

These hypothetical rankings mean sweet FA imo.

Earlier in the summer Kildare went from the number 3 side in the country to a team not really up to it in the football. All of this on the basis of one game they could have, maybe should have, won. They lost on the kick of a ball and so are overrated. If they won we'd still be hearing the third best side in the country nonsense. The margins are that small.

Back to the hurling. Outside of Tipp and KK the rest can easily beat each other. Limerick had enough chances to take the game away from Dublin in the quarter final. 12 months ago a similar looking Dublin side lost to Antrim ffs. When Dublin consistently demonstrate superiority over the rest then maybe i could entertain a thread like this but they haven't. I think Waterford haven't lost to 'the rest' in the championship in quite a while now so maybe the thread should read "Waterford now the 3rd best hurling team in the country?". Thats how flimsy these things are.