Housing Estate Parking Issues

goldshoes

Hi,

I am having problems with the parking outside my house.
I live in an estate which has both terraced houses with communal parking and detached & semi-detached houses with their own driveways.
My problem is with the residents of the houses WITH their own driveways, who feel it is acceptable to take the communal spaces provided for those without a driveway, because they have too many cars!

I live in a block of 4 terraced houses with 6 parking spaces provided opposite. All the residents in my block purchased their homes with the understanding that these spaces were provided for our homes only. The County Council Development Plan for my area also clearly states that dwelling in houses estates with 1-3 bedrooms must be provided with 1.5 parking spaces each, which is exactly what we have. Where each individual space is not assigned to a particular house, the group of spaces are for our houses. And us terraced house Residents are very respectful of each other.

We have really just a couple of main offenders, with their own driveways, who have been asked to move on several occasions and we have even have notes left on their cars asking them to refrain from parking here. Just last night, 5 out of 6 of our spaces were taken up by one of these Residents who was having a get together in their house, resulting in myself and 2 of my neighbours having to park on the road elsewhere in my estate.

Has anyone any advice on what we can do about this? I am a girl living on my own, I do not like confrontation and feel quite intimidated by these people. The Residents Association is not really an option as it is run by these people also and it seems talking to them is not providing a solution.

Any advice/similar experiences welcome.
Thanks.

athtrasna

If you don't have an allocated space then you have no entitlement to specific spaces. While the development plan is aspirational it's not legally binding and nobody has the right to put a note on a car telling them not to park there.

Not what you wanted to hear but if parking in an estate is not allocated then it operates on a first come first served basis. A huge issue in so many Tiger estates...we have unallocated parking here and I hate coming in late at night and having to walk 5 mins from the only available parking spaces, but that's how it is. We tried to bring in allocated parking but it was voted down.

goldshoes

Yes I do agree about the notes and where I personally was not responsible for them, I can completely understand the frustration that can lead to it, and I have to admit I have almost been driven to it on occasion.

The parking spaces I am referring to, are 6 spaces directly opposite our 4 terraced houses where everyone else in the estate has their own private parking with driveways. These spaces were allocated to our houses by the builder and the houses were sold with these spaces. Unfortunately they were never numbered and now with the developer gone AWOL we have no assistance with the situation.

The residents who actually need these spaces are very respectful of each other. We never overdo it with the number of spaces we use up and would always advise the others if we have extra people coming over. Its an agreement that always works well. Unfortunately those residents who actually have their own driveways and private parking are not as respectful and do not seem to be bothered at all that they are making other peoples lives difficult. If I was having visitors and there was no spaces in my area for them to park, I most certainly would not send them over to park in front of other peoples houses or in their driveways. You just don't do it and I feel that is basically what they are doing to us.
Its just a matter of people being respectful of others and not putting their own needs ahead of everyone elses.

Living in an estate is a community and I don't understand why some people feel it is ok to abuse the services while others go out of their way not to. Its very frustrating.

Marcusm

I don't mean to be insensitive but you cannot compare your visitors parking in someone's driveway with other people's visitors parking in what are simply unallocated parking spaces. I can understand that you and the other terraced house residents may feel proprietorial towards them but unless included in your purchase(which seems not to be the case), you have no more right to them than any other person.

It does sound as if some of the spaces could be marked as residents only but then ho enforce this you would need to engage NCPS or some similar company which you will see from other topics, is not an ideal solution.

If you want a conclusive solution, you are going to have to establish who legally owns the common spaces; has a management company been established of which you are all numbers or is the residual property of the developer? If the former, perhaps you can propose the sale of the spaces to you and your fellow residents with the proceeds being invested for the good of the estate as a whole.

steve9859

goldshoes wrote: »

. These spaces were allocated to our houses by the builder and the houses were sold with these spaces. Unfortunately they were never numbered and now with the developer gone AWOL we have no assistance with the situation.

.

If the house was sold with a space, you are entitled to it, and I suggest you see your solicitor and check the title deeds. If you do in fact own it you can get in numbered. It is your property and noone else has the right to park on it. Your solicitor will need to speak to the management company. When I bought my apartment in 2000, I also bought a space which had it's own set of title deeds, and anyone in it will get clamped if I make a phone call

athtrasna

steve9859 wrote: »

If the house was sold with a space, you are entitled to it, and I suggest you see your solicitor and check the title deeds. If you do in fact own it you can get in numbered. It is your property and noone else has the right to park on it. Your solicitor will need to speak to the management company. When I bought my apartment in 2000, I also bought a space which had it's own set of title deeds, and anyone in it will get clamped if I make a phone call

There's a distinction here. Your apartment was bought with a specific space. The OP bought and was entitled to 1.5 spaces in the development (generally meaning one space and a share in a visitor space). Unless the OP's lease specifies a particular space they don't have the same rights that you do with yours.

My lease says 1.5 spaces, sometimes I can get a space 5 seconds from my door, sometimes 5 minutes but because I don't have an allocated space I can't make any claim to the spaces opposite my home. I have as much right to park in them as any other owner in the development but no more right.

OP if you don't have allocated spaces then you can't blame visitors to a unit (any unit whether with or without a driveway) from parking in them. If I visit an estate I always look for allocated spaces or signs that say they are before settling on a parking spot. No sign/allocation - fair game.

goldshoes

The 4 terraced houses were sold by the builders with these 6 allocated parking spaces, just not individually assigned per house as there was 1.5 spaces provided for each terraced house.
There is not a Management company, only a Residents Association and the builder in question is no longer in operation as is the case with many developers.
I bought my house 2nd hand a couple of years ago not directly from the builder and my house was sold to me by the estate agent with a parking space. I am planning on going back to my solicitor this week to check if it is noted in my contract.
I understand that we may not have any rights ultimately to these spaces, however really wanted some advice on how to handle it in a constructive manner with the people who are abusing the situation. As I said in an earlier post, these people who do not seem to want to discuss it, are heavily involved in the Residents Association, so going that channel is going to be difficult.
None of the residents I know have any issue with anyone parking there when necessary, but 1 house with there own driveway and on street parking, taking up 5 additional spaces out of the 6 unallocated spaces is not being very respectful of others, whether they are being used by houses with or without driveways. Common courtesy goes a long way in my book and anyone who shows me respect will get it back 10 fold.

athtrasna

You need to check if you deeds give you 1.5 spaces in this particular block or in the development in general..that's the key.

I think you're being unfair to the visitors to that house, they are not necessarily knowingly "abusing" the parking system. If there is nothing to indicate that those spaces are reserved for certain houses, then it cannot be classed as abuse if they park there.

northkildare

I had the same problem, I bought a parking pole for 90 euro and i chased out the tarmac and placed the housing in the ground 3 years ago.

I have a lock on it so i know i have my parking when i get home after work, I had people across the road who dont work parking outside my home so this put a stop to it.

As for can i by law...........Sue me

goldshoes

Well I don't personally blame the visitors, but when people come to stay in my house I take responsibility for where they park and I don't think its unreasonable to expect others to so the same. I have asked my own parents and sister on separate occasions to move their cars elsewhere as I felt their cars were causing an obstruction to others. Maybe I am the fool and should just carry on the way others do, but that is not how I was taught to behave and I simply expect the same respect I give to others.

I will check with my Solicitor this week and hope to come to a friendly resolution to the situation. Thanks to all for the advice

Marcusm

goldshoes wrote: »

Well I don't personally blame the visitors, but when people come to stay in my house I take responsibility for where they park and I don't think its unreasonable to expect others to so the same. I have asked my own parents and sister on separate occasions to move their cars elsewhere as I felt their cars were causing an obstruction to others. Maybe I am the fool and should just carry on the way others do, but that is not how I was taught to behave and I simply expect the same respect I give to others.

I will check with my Solicitor this week and hope to come to a friendly resolution to the situation. Thanks to all for the advice

You are absolutely right to go and check the purchase contract for the house, however, I can tell you now that it will not guarantee you access to 1.5 parking spaces for the simple reason that it could never guarantee you access to half a space. Ask your solicitor to check the ownership of the land in the development, the common land. If it remains int he ownership of an absent developer, you may have a practical solution, albeit not one that grants you any legal rights.

That solution would be for you and your three neighbours to install parking posts on 4 of the spaces. If the land is truly in the ownership of an absent developer, it is unlikely to take any action against you. Your neighbours would not have any standing to take an action against you and your solicitor may be able to arm you with arguments as to why this is not a trespass on the land of the developer, given that you will have been given access rights over it.

I would only follow this action if you were prepared for a confrontation.

Binga31

I came on here looking for similar advice. I'm in an estate with unallocated parking, but each area has a number of spaces for residence. The problem is that there is an access gate from our estate to a park, that has its own car park, however the estate is constantly overrun with people parking their cars in our estate, our car spaces and then heading over to use the park facilities.
I have lost count of the times that I have come home after work, or with a boot full of groceries and have been unable to get a space due to the massive influx of park users. Sometimes I just have to double park and wait for someone to return to their car. The most annoying thing is that when I look over at the car park allocated for the park users it is almost empty but people use our estate as a short cut.
Recently while waiting on a car space in our estate, a couple returned from the park with their dogs, I approached them and asked if they were residences, knowing they weren't, and when I explained that the car spaces were for residences, and pointing to the sign, they laughed in my face, drove off and then returned the following evening.
My point is that I feel it is the same as someone parking in your driveway, and then heading off for a walk. But I realise after all of the comments on here, that as they are unallocated we have no claim. However does anyone have any idea if the spaces are being used by non-residence, and are not visiting any residences, do we have any case for grievance?
Thanks!

mari2222

What would happen if you painted "Reserved- No Parking" on a car space?

Binga31

mari2222 wrote: »

What would happen if you painted "Reserved- No Parking" on a car space?

I assume this one is for me?! I believe that the property management company would come down on me like a ton of bricks. I'm going to call them to see what they advise, but from what I have heard they will simply tell me that I can put a flier on the window of each 'non - resident' car. Basically - nothing! And from my experience of confronting the offenders, they continue to park there.

I looked into the legal aspect with Citizens advice but there is no legislation for private parking in respect to clamping etc.. so looks like I might have to approach the football club that trains/plays matches there as they are the majority of offenders, along with families /supporters.

irlrobins

Binga31 wrote: »

I came on here looking for similar advice. I'm in an estate with unallocated parking, but each area has a number of spaces for residence.

If it's a private estate there presumably there would be a management company that you are member of. You could raise the issue at the next AGM and request that the issue be addressed, probably through means of clamping.

If the estate is managed by the council, then get your residents association with a view to bringing in disk parking, residents permits, clamping or whatever is needed to control parking. Talking to your local counciller and TD would help with this.

ellejay

If the owners of the four terraced houses are the only ones entittled to use the spaces, maybe the four of you could share the cost of installing those "parking poles" as a preventative measure?

They're the metal poles that kind of plug into a slot in the ground, to block the space, then you just unlock them to remove from the ground.

You could each have a copy of the keys so everyone can access.

(I've heard they're not very expensive but don't know for sure.)

Kintarō Hattori

Folks can I ask you what way parking works in a situation like this. Most houses in our estate have driveways but some like ours don't. Outside of our houses and the row opposite we have several spaces set off of the road. Would these be specifically for the people in houses like ours or would they be open to anyone who wants to park there?

mikemac

Much the same in our estate Kintaro

The spaces are for everyone, not the house owner beside them

I wonder if the person with the bin knows this and was trying to block the other residents from "their" space

Victor

irlrobins is right - you need to work out who owns the land and engage wtih them.

mari2222 wrote: »

What would happen if you painted "Reserved- No Parking" on a car space?

Potentially that is criminal damage.

mari2222

Victor wrote: »

irlrobins is right - you need to work out who owns the land and engage wtih them.Potentially that is criminal damage.

How can it be a crime ? The owners of the 6 spaces, who occupy 4 properties, would be painting a notice on property they own. What law are they breaking?

irlrobins

The issue is that the ownership of the spaces has not been established. If you don't own the space, you can't paint it!

mari2222

The original poster seems clear enough:

goldshoes wrote: »

Hi,



I live in a block of 4 terraced houses with 6 parking spaces provided opposite. All the residents in my block purchased their homes with the understanding that these spaces were provided for our homes only. The County Council Development Plan for my area also clearly states that dwelling in houses estates with 1-3 bedrooms must be provided with 1.5 parking spaces each, which is exactly what we have. Where each individual space is not assigned to a particular house, the group of spaces are for our houses.

Dades

mari2222 wrote: »

The original poster seems clear enough:

goldshoes wrote: »

Hi,

I live in a block of 4 terraced houses with 6 parking spaces provided opposite. All the residents in my block purchased their homes with the understanding that these spaces were provided for our homes only. The County Council Development Plan for my area also clearly states that dwelling in houses estates with 1-3 bedrooms must be provided with 1.5 parking spaces each, which is exactly what we have. Where each individual space is not assigned to a particular house, the group of spaces are for our houses.

Ownership in law requires more than an "understanding" on the part of the claimant.

Did you read beyond the original post?

irlrobins

Indeed. Unless your title deeds clearly state ownership of the parking space, then it's not your property.

mari2222

Dades wrote: »

Ownership in law requires more than an "understanding" on the part of the claimant.

Did you read beyond the original post?

My understanding is that legal advice should not be offered on boards. Posing questions to a poster to encourage their contemplation of issues relevant to their legal situation is permitted in the legal forum.

Here, the question of ownership is relevant, as is the type of ownership enjoyed, if any. There are additional issues which may be relevant, such as the planning conditions on the usage of the spaces, easements, wayleaves, public-vs-private roadway etc. Most of these are questions of fact, which, absent documentation, cannot be answered on boards, but the poster's attention can be drawn to areas where they can further research their situation.

Dades

mari2222 wrote: »

My understanding is that legal advice should not be offered on boards. Posing questions to a poster to encourage their contemplation of issues relevant to their legal situation is permitted in the legal forum.

Here, the question of ownership is relevant, as is the type of ownership enjoyed, if any. There are additional issues which may be relevant, such as the planning conditions on the usage of the spaces, easements, wayleaves, public-vs-private roadway etc. Most of these are questions of fact, which, absent documentation, cannot be answered on boards, but the poster's attention can be drawn to areas where they can further research their situation.

This seems somewhat at odds with your previous posts, which left no room for ambiguity!

mari2222 wrote: »

How can it be a crime ? The owners of the 6 spaces, who occupy 4 properties, would be painting a notice on property they own.

mari2222

Dades wrote: »

This seems somewhat at odds with your previous posts, which left no room for ambiguity!

posed as a question, also!

digzy

op i feel sorry for you here. parking can be a nightmare especially where you've a 4 bed house rented out to 4 adults each with their own cars.
i used to rent a good few years back and the guy next door was a right nazi putting notes on our cars......tbf now i see his point.

it's fair to assume that none of the residents 'own' the spaces. In my experience solicitors are complete robbers.I wouldn't waste money going there only for them to tell you what you know already-you're no right to exclusive use.

i'd avoid confrontation with the neighbours at all costs. you'd never know who you're dealing with and who knows where it could escalate.....?
as regards painting 'reserved' on the spaces it'll be ignored!
i think you've 2 options. do nothing and try and forget about it (it'd piss me off too) or else let the 4 of you get those parking posts. however, this could get messy. what if other residents get a similar brainwave. some may put them in a completely inappropriate place and then you all get an order to pull them all up from a local authority.how bad though?after that you'd just have to forget it

just to sum up, AVOID CONFRONTATION it's not worth the hassle esp if you're a non-renter.

candj

How did you get on with your solicitor? I am in a similar development, I own and end of 4 townhouse, its a private development with a mix of townhouses, semis and detatched, there is a patch of grass running along the front of the four houses with space for 2 cars per house, we have already run a foot path from our front door through the grass to "our" parking space, which no one has had any issue with or passed any comment on,

However we are considering the possibility of running a small boundary wall between our home and the house next door at the front, I am waiting on a copy of our land registry to see whether or not we actually own the grass, and parking space,

Have you considered running a fense or boundary wall? we don't have a management company, and builder has also gone bust, some of the houses on our development were originally built with a dividing wall to the front and others without. I am not really sure how to proceed, would appreciate any advice or comment

Thank you

Marcusm

candj wrote: »

How did you get on with your solicitor? I am in a similar development, I own and end of 4 townhouse, its a private development with a mix of townhouses, semis and detatched, there is a patch of grass running along the front of the four houses with space for 2 cars per house, we have already run a foot path from our front door through the grass to "our" parking space, which no one has had any issue with or passed any comment on,

However we are considering the possibility of running a small boundary wall between our home and the house next door at the front, I am waiting on a copy of our land registry to see whether or not we actually own the grass, and parking space,

Have you considered running a fense or boundary wall? we don't have a management company, and builder has also gone bust, some of the houses on our development were originally built with a dividing wall to the front and others without. I am not really sure how to proceed, would appreciate any advice or comment

Thank you

1. Google "adverse posession"
2. take action to enclose
3. wait 12 years

It'll then be yours!

Ray Palmer

seems like a classic case of buyer beware. Highly unlikely these parking spaces are owned by the home owners. While the sense of entitlement to them seems logical and implied by design it is unlikely to have any legal backing.

Get it to court as soon as possible as there is a time limit on bringing such cases. Lost a 50k parking space myself when an office block joined to the appartments was sold with our parking spaces. We proved they should have been our won the case and then lost the spaces as we didn't file the case within a set time.

Cheshire Cat

Were looking at a house we were interested in buying. A small development off a road on which it is very dangerous to park (too narrow). 4 houses and 8 parking spaces. All 4 houses are for sale as the developer finished them just as the market crashed. They were rented out for a while, but I think they need the money very urgently. We told them we would only buy if the parking spaces were clearly allocated to the individual houses. No joy there. So didn't buy.