Animal intelligence

steddyeddy

Studies in animal intelligence are very popular now and there are some excellent programs going on at the moment which are attempting to evaulate animal intelligence.

The best of these In my humble opinion is the program run by Sue Savage-rumbaugh who started her work on Bonobos in the langauge research centre in Atlanta Georgia.

Sue worked with a male bonobo called kanzi who using a system of lexigrams was able to discover and communicate over three hundred words and continues to learn. Kanzi has even started to pick up grammatical skills by placing "-ing" and "ed" at the ends of words to expand their meaning. Heres a video showing how Kanzi is able to understand and respond to verbal commands. Note that the lady in the video wears a mask to reduce the possibility of giving kanzi a non verbal command.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dhc2zePJFE

Another example is Koko the gorilla who can understand approximatly 2000 spoken words and can use sign langauge well enought to express over one thousand words. Koko can combine signs to describe things she hasnt seen yet for instance "water-bird" is swan or duck and interestingly Koko refers to gorillas as "animal-person". The below video is interesting as it shows not only Koko's ability to express herself but shows empathy and sorrow towards her kitten who died.

Adam Khor

steddyeddy wrote: »

Studies in animal intelligence are very popular now and there are some excellent programs going on at the moment which are attempting to evaulate animal intelligence.

The best of these In my humble opinion is the program run by Sue Savage-rumbaugh who started her work on Bonobos in the langauge research centre in Atlanta Georgia.

Sue worked with a male bonobo called kanzi who using a system of lexigrams was able to discover and communicate over three hundred words and continues to learn. Kanzi has even started to pick up grammatical skills by placing "-ing" and "ed" at the ends of words to expand their meaning. Heres a video showing how Kanzi is able to understand and respond to verbal commands. Note that the lady in the video wears a mask to reduce the possibility of giving kanzi a non verbal command.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dhc2zePJFE

Another example is Koko the gorilla who can understand approximatly 2000 spoken words and can use sign langauge well enought to express over one thousand words. Koko can combine signs to describe things she hasnt seen yet for instance "water-bird" is swan or duck and interestingly Koko refers to gorillas as "animal-person". The below video is interesting as it shows not only Koko's ability to express herself but shows empathy and sorrow towards her kitten who died.

I saw once an amazing documentary on Koko. I think I cried several times while watching it. There's a part in which Michael, a male gorilla raised as Koko's foster brother, uses sign language to tell his trainers about his earliest memories- of how his family was murdered by poachers in Africa and he was abducted to be sold. Really touching and sad stuff.

steddyeddy

Adam Khor wrote: »

I saw once an amazing documentary on Koko. I think I cried several times while watching it. There's a part in which Michael, a male gorilla raised as Koko's foster brother, uses sign language to tell his trainers about his earliest memories- of how his family was murdered by poachers in Africa and he was abducted to be sold. Really touching and sad stuff.

I saw that documentary too Adam and it really struck a chord with me. Here was a creature that could detail how his family were who was locked up in a cage at several points in his life. It really made me uncomfortable seeing the great apes in zoos ever since.

Hollzy

I did a week of work experience in Fota Wildlife Park this summer and I ended up spending quite a lot of time with primates. I have a whole new appreciation of them now that I've been close to them. The white-faced saki in particular were wonderful to be with. Two minutes in their company and you can't help but notice how intelligent (and good natured) they are.

DjFlin

Those damn dirty apes will be the end of us all.

Solair

Personally, I find it quite bizarre that 'the establishment' view still seems to take a notion that animals are not 'intelligent'.

It's like we've developed a logical / psychological / cultural shield which is there to enable us to lack empathy towards other animals by deeming them to be unintelligent.

We are animals, and it would defy all logic if it were not the case that other animals, particularly other mammals, probably interpret the world in pretty much a similar way to us, even if they are not thinking about it quite as abstractly or able to express those abstractions through language (that we understand).

All mammalian brains are broadly similar in structure, and the emotional parts of our brain are very similar to other mammals, so I would suspect that we probably share a lot of the same basic emotional instincts, feelings etc.

The great apes are only a few DNA tweaks away from humans. I don't see why people are surprised that they're similarly intelligent, even if they lack technology and the language breakthrough that we made.

Dolphins and other porpoises seem to have highly sophisticated communications systems.

Also, we can communicate with other animals, particularly mammals, very easily. It might not be the most sophisticated communication, but it happens. Millions of people communicate, on quite an emotional level with cats, dogs, etc every day.

Your cat or dog can interpret your mood, you can interpret their mood. You can interact at a pretty complex level.

If you go up the scale a bit to more intellectual animals like apes, dolphins, elephants, etc etc that level of interaction will be way more complex.

Birds and many fish and sea creatures like octopus display pretty complex intelligence too.

All of these creatures are intelligent, they can hunt, gather and absolutely master their habitats.

Just because they don't build skyscrapers or drive cars does not mean that they're unintelligent, they're just differently intelligent.

I think humans really need to drop the arrogance. We're just mammals who have happened to evolve complex linguistics and social organisation.

Mickeroo

Speaking of mammalian intelligence, I watched the first episode of Human Planet this evening and there's a remarkable sequence where it shows a realtionship between a fishing community in brazil and a pod of dolphins thats been going for the last 150 years, the water is too murky for the fishermen to see where they can cast their nets so the dolhpins herd the fish into the nets for them. It's pretty mind blowing stuff, it really wrecks my head how anyone would want to keep animals as blatantly as intelligent as this in captivity :mad:

Here's the clip, I think the whole series might actually be on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42MpfPqWkhk

Hollzy

Well said Solair, I agree completely =] I hope you don't think I had any doubts about the intelligence of those white-faced saki before I was so close to them. Perhaps I didn't explain it well enough. It's difficult to explain the connection I felt with them. I suppose what I wanted to say is that it's one thing knowing that an animal is intelligent, but it's still wonderful to experience it firsthand. I don't want to sound patronising of them either. I was just so enchanted by their company...

That video sounds fascinating Mickeroo, I'll watch it right now!

steddyeddy

Hollzy wrote: »

I did a week of work experience in Fota Wildlife Park this summer and I ended up spending quite a lot of time with primates. I have a whole new appreciation of them now that I've been close to them. The white-faced saki in particular were wonderful to be with. Two minutes in their company and you can't help but notice how intelligent (and good natured) they are.

Fair play holly Im delighted for you!! I worked with primates before my favorites are orangutangs. Which ones did you work with?

Hollzy

Well you won't find any orangutans in Fota I'm afraid, though I would love the chance to meet one of those up close! The white-faced saki and ring-tailed lemurs are the ones I worked up close with. Both species took the food I offered and allowed me to touch them, I felt so honoured! With the other species there I was basically cleaning their houses and preparing their meals but I got close to the grey cheeked mangabeys and colombian black spider monkeys too =]

Chuck Stone

steddyeddy wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dhc2zePJFE

If you look carefully in the 1st video Kanzi clearly reaches for the jam jar before being instructed to at 1:30.

What's up with that?

Oranage2

I saw an chimp sh!t on his hand and throw it at some punters in dublin zoo. If anything I think we over estimate their intelligence!

MeganM

My brother manages to dress himself almost on a daily basis, truly remarkable animals they are.

Sid_Justice

Solair wrote: »

Personally, I find it quite bizarre that 'the establishment' view still seems to take a notion that animals are not 'intelligent'.

It's like we've developed a logical / psychological / cultural shield which is there to enable us to lack empathy towards other animals by deeming them to be unintelligent.

We are animals, and it would defy all logic if it were not the case that other animals, particularly other mammals, probably interpret the world in pretty much a similar way to us, even if they are not thinking about it quite as abstractly or able to express those abstractions through language (that we understand).

All mammalian brains are broadly similar in structure, and the emotional parts of our brain are very similar to other mammals, so I would suspect that we probably share a lot of the same basic emotional instincts, feelings etc.

The great apes are only a few DNA tweaks away from humans. I don't see why people are surprised that they're similarly intelligent, even if they lack technology and the language breakthrough that we made.

Dolphins and other porpoises seem to have highly sophisticated communications systems.

Also, we can communicate with other animals, particularly mammals, very easily. It might not be the most sophisticated communication, but it happens. Millions of people communicate, on quite an emotional level with cats, dogs, etc every day.

Your cat or dog can interpret your mood, you can interpret their mood. You can interact at a pretty complex level.

If you go up the scale a bit to more intellectual animals like apes, dolphins, elephants, etc etc that level of interaction will be way more complex.

Birds and many fish and sea creatures like octopus display pretty complex intelligence too.

All of these creatures are intelligent, they can hunt, gather and absolutely master their habitats.

Just because they don't build skyscrapers or drive cars does not mean that they're unintelligent, they're just differently intelligent.

I think humans really need to drop the arrogance. We're just mammals who have happened to evolve complex linguistics and social organisation.

how about you define intelligence so we know what you're actually talking about.

All mammalian brains are broadly similar in structure, and the emotional parts of our brain are very similar to other mammals, so I would suspect that we probably share a lot of the same basic emotional instincts, feelings etc.

I actually don't think any of the assumptions you've made are entirely logical. I think it's a grave mistake to presume animals that aren't human think in a human way.

Adam Khor

Oranage2 wrote: »

I saw an chimp sh!t on his hand and throw it at some punters in dublin zoo. If anything I think we over estimate their intelligence!

That is unfair. Zoo apes are often mentally and emotionally sick; captivity does that to any intelligent animal. I worked at a zoo, so I know a little bit about this. No matter how great we think the ape enclosure is, the animal is still in prison; it is bored, it is angry, it is depressed, and eventually, it literally goes insane.
I don´t think you can look at a zoo chimpanzee (or any animal for that matter) and have a good idea of how smart they really are. Even observing them in the wild changes their behavior so, we really only know a small part of the whole story.

Plus, if I was imprisoned in a zoo and had stupid people teasing me and yelling and pointing at me and even throwing stuff at me (which some people actually do), I would be tempted to throw crap at them as well.

Adam Khor

Dolphins have once again been seen and photographed using tools, this time a conch to capture small fish. Then, the dolphin goes to the surface and shakes the conch so that water drains out and the fish slips directly into its mouth- like someone eating the bottoms of a potato chip bag.

Dolphins are also known to use sponges to protect their beaks when they hunt in coral reefs (which are filled with sharp corals, stinging and poisonous animals etc). In both cases, it seems that one dolphin came up with the original idea and the others learned and imitated the behavior. Adult dolphins then teach their young to do the same.

Now imagine all these animals could do if they had hands! XD

Mickeroo

Yea I read that a couple of weeks ago, extremely fascinating stuff. Makes you think, if only they could figure out a way to communicate effectively with them, even to the extent of the sign language with apes.

g'em

Solair wrote: »

Personally, I find it quite bizarre that 'the establishment' view still seems to take a notion that animals are not 'intelligent'.

It's like we've developed a logical / psychological / cultural shield which is there to enable us to lack empathy towards other animals by deeming them to be unintelligent.

Or we developed an overinflated habit of anthropomorphising animal behaviour and have a different kind of arrogance in that we believe that the way we react is the way that animals would or should

Solair wrote:

All mammalian brains are broadly similar in structure, and the emotional parts of our brain are very similar to other mammals, so I would suspect that we probably share a lot of the same basic emotional instincts, feelings etc.

Yup, anatomically the differences are minimal. But those differences are key in this debate. We almost certainly do share the same basic emotions - fear, anger, jealousy, happiness, sadness BUT emotions and mood are two different things - I would be of the opinion that we we feel the same emotions, humans and possibly higher primates have the ability to interpret those emotions and translate them to a mood.

Solair wrote:

The great apes are only a few DNA tweaks away from humans. I don't see why people are surprised that they're similarly intelligent, even if they lack technology and the language breakthrough that we made.

But look at how humongous those few genetic differences make us? If you stand an ape and a human side by side sure, there's plenty of similarities, but you're in no doubt whatsoever that they are two very different and distinct species.

Solair wrote:

Dolphins and other porpoises seem to have highly sophisticated communications systems.

Massively more sophisticated than our own in some ways - they have their own 'secret language', they engage in complex play, they have intricate and convoluted pod relationships. There's little doubt that cetaceans as a whole are intelligent animals, but I'd still argue that it's nowhere near the levels of humans, or even primates.

Solair wrote:

Your cat or dog can interpret your mood, you can interpret their mood. You can interact at a pretty complex level.

And this is where it gets a little subjective. Are they really interpreting your mood or are they responding to a subconscious cue? Anyone with a dog will tell you that there's no animal like it for 'knowing' when you're down or upset and they provide perfect comfort, but can we really say they're sitting their thinking "hmm, my feeder/walker/ companion seems a little blue today, I must attend to their needs?". I'm not trying to be facetious with that, just pointing out that this would be more of that anthropomorphising that I was talking about earlier.

Adam Khor wrote: »

Plus, if I was imprisoned in a zoo and had stupid people teasing me and yelling and pointing at me and even throwing stuff at me (which some people actually do), I would be tempted to throw crap at them as well.

The zoo discussion is a really, really interesting one and probably deserves its own thread, but there are plenty of counter arguments to the ones you've made. While one person sees it as imprisonment, another would see it as protection. To my mind animals just shelter, food and protection - a zoo provides all these things. If you study animals in the wild you see that they very, very rarely leave their own restricted territories. There's this idea that animals are all frolicking in the fields having mad freedom parties and the like, but the reality is that wild animals are massively restricted in their natural movement patterns by predators, natural resource boundaries, competition and disease.

Adam Khor

Mickeroo wrote: »

Yea I read that a couple of weeks ago, extremely fascinating stuff. Makes you think, if only they could figure out a way to communicate effectively with them, even to the extent of the sign language with apes.

I remember reading somewhere (years ago) about a guy who studied dolphins in captivity. Dolphins actually seemed to be more interested on communicating verbally with humans, than the other way around- they would even try to mimic some words even though they lack the "equipment", so to speak, to produce the same sounds we do.

There's so much to be learned...

steddyeddy

Adam Khor wrote: »

I remember reading somewhere (years ago) about a guy who studied dolphins in captivity. Dolphins actually seemed to be more interested on communicating verbally with humans, than the other way around- they would even try to mimic some words even though they lack the "equipment", so to speak, to produce the same sounds we do.

There's so much to be learned...

Kanzi the bonobo has been seen trying to best imitate words to the best of his ability!