Starting an LLB in September

keano007

So I finally took the plunge and applied for the LL.B in Irish Law and I'm due to start in late September. Just wondering is there any suggested reading I could do prior to the course starting (to get a head start so to speak)?

bath handle

keano007 wrote: »

So I finally took the plunge and applied for the LL.B in Irish Law and I'm due to start in late September. Just wondering is there any suggested reading I could do prior to the course starting (to get a head start so to speak)?

J.C. Wylie ~ Irish Land Law. Latest edition.

FreudianSlippers

bath handle wrote: »

J.C. Wylie ~ Irish Land Law. Latest edition.

This is either a hilarious joke or you are a sick and twisted individual

keano007

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

This is either a hilarious joke or you are a sick and twisted individual

What am I missing here?

NoQuarter

not as much as you'd miss from trying to read that monstrosity

keano007

keano007 wrote: »

So I finally took the plunge and applied for the LL.B in Irish Law and I'm due to start in late September. Just wondering is there any suggested reading I could do prior to the course starting (to get a head start so to speak)?

Byrne & McCutcheon "The Irish Legal System" would be a very good place to start. Just as a broad overview that is.

crystalmice

keano007 wrote: »

So I finally took the plunge and applied for the LL.B in Irish Law and I'm due to start in late September. Just wondering is there any suggested reading I could do prior to the course starting (to get a head start so to speak)?

I 'm assuming you don't have a back ground in Irish law, so you could try Byrne and McCuthceon's introduction to the Irish Legal System for an overview of stuff like precedent, the court structure and history etc

Edit: just noticed the above post, great minds thinking alike and all that jazz

keano007

crystalmice wrote: »

keano007 wrote: »

So I finally took the plunge and applied for the LL.B in Irish Law and I'm due to start in late September. Just wondering is there any suggested reading I could do prior to the course starting (to get a head start so to speak)?

I 'm assuming you don't have a back ground in Irish law, so you could try Byrne and McCuthceon's introduction to the Irish Legal System for an overview of stuff like precedent, the court structure and history etc

Edit: just noticed the above post, great minds thinking alike and all that jazz

I actually have some experience in criminal law and the courts system etc but I think I'll have a look at that book alright.....fairly expensive!!

NoQuarter

Its only around 30 euro? Are you looking online?

keano007

NoQuarter wrote: »

Its only around 30 euro? Are you looking online?

Ya, about 95€ for the 5th Ed. Where are you looking? Is it the older edition? Would reading an older edition be advisable?

ResearchWill

keano007 wrote: »

NoQuarter wrote: »

Its only around 30 euro? Are you looking online?

Ya, about 95€ for the 5th Ed. Where are you looking? Is it the older edition? Would reading an older edition be advisable?

Try and get your hands on a copy of Murdoch's Dictionary of Irish Law it is also expensive but well worth the investment.

NoQuarter

keano007 wrote: »

Ya, about 95€ for the 5th Ed. Where are you looking? Is it the older edition? Would reading an older edition be advisable?

Sorry I was looking at the wrong book. Where are you doing the LLB? Griffith?

Dont go out and buy anything just yet.

keano007

NoQuarter wrote: »

Sorry I was looking at the wrong book. Where are you doing the LLB? Griffith?

Dont go out and buy anything just yet.

Ya I think I'll wait alright. I decided on Independent Colleges on Dawson St. Gets good reviews...........any thoughts?

FreudianSlippers

keano007 wrote: »

Ya I think I'll wait alright. I decided on Independent Colleges on Dawson St. Gets good reviews...........any thoughts?

I didn't go there, but they have some good people lecturing there.

NoQuarter

Heard its good! Theres no point in getting those books because i think you might get them with the course, I did in Griffith anyway. I read Brian Doolins "principles of Irish Law" before my LLB and it didnt really help me.

If I was you, I would find out what 3 topics you will be doing for your first year (probably contract, tort and constitutional law) and go buy the nutshells on each, its a small, easy to read book and it will get you started on the stuff you'll actually be learning on the course!

keano007

NoQuarter wrote: »

Heard its good! Theres no point in getting those books because i think you might get them with the course, I did in Griffith anyway. I read Brian Doolins "principles of Irish Law" before my LLB and it didnt really help me.

If I was you, I would find out what 3 topics you will be doing for your first year (probably contract, tort and constitutional law) and go buy the nutshells on each, its a small, easy to read book and it will get you started on the stuff you'll actually be learning on the course!

When you nutshells is that an actual book? Any link to something you'd suggest?

Cheers again for the advice....much appreciated!

NoQuarter

keano007 wrote: »

When you nutshells is that an actual book? Any link to something you'd suggest?

Cheers again for the advice....much appreciated!

This kind of stuff: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tort-Nutshells-Ralph-Tiernan/dp/0421765305

Not sure if that is Irish or not because im in the middle of exams and too tired to read anything but yeah nutshells is a "series". Small little compact books, they are perfect what you're looking for. In fact, I still use them for my exams now

usernamegoes

Another interesting idea might be to get to grips with reading cases and understanding what is important.

Some interesting cases might be

R v Brown
THE QUEEN v. DUDLEY AND STEPHENS

Both pose some interesting moral v legal issues, that at least I found interesting.

Crown and Brown. Never will I forget that case. Such an odd read.

BornToKill

I would recommend 'One L' by Scott Turow.

usernamegoes

Deleted User wrote: »

Crown and Brown. Never will I forget that case. Such an odd read.

I always thought it was so unlucky how they were caught! It reminds me of Lawerence v Texas were two gay men were prosecuted for buggery when an officer came to serve a parking fine or something and someone asleep on the couch let the officer in and he went into the bed room and caught them.

Also read the Supreme Court decision in Norris and spot the overt and crazy anti-homosexual comments.

beeftotheheels

usernamegoes wrote: »

Another interesting idea might be to get to grips with reading cases and understanding what is important.

Some interesting cases might be

R v Brown
THE QUEEN v. DUDLEY AND STEPHENS

Both pose some interesting moral v legal issues, that at least I found interesting.

There's a book on Dudley & Stephens called Cannibalism and Common Law http://www.historytoday.com/lentin/cannibalism-and-common-law which is a great pre-read.

Was on my pre-reading list along with some jurisprudence type books to get you thinking without the risk of (step away from the Nutshells) learning things wrong from crib sheets that you'll just have to unlearn and re-learn right later on.

I'd second these two cases, not over their specific crimes but because of the moral questions - should the law make allowances for prevailing morality? and philosophy of the law type books which broaden the mind rather than Nutshells which are only crib sheets and as a first year you'll all be expected to be starting from zero anyway.

The risk with Nutshells is that if you fail to understand some of the basics you could get confused later in class and **remembers evil classmate who read a bunch of Nutshells before we started and derailed a number of seminars with his daft misunderstanding of some of the basics** it can end badly.

What interests you?

If you are into e.g. the politics of war crimes/ Gitmo then Philippe Sands Torture Team is a great book. It is not written like a legal text book, but he has written those (International Environmental Law was his subject back in the day) but it a great read, written by a Professor and QC (SC), while still being pretty accessible to someone who hasn't studied law yet, and I would hope providing food for thought. Lawless World (same author) explores America's place in International Law and again is not written as a text book, its audience is wider than just lawyers.

usernamegoes

beeftotheheels wrote: »

There's a book on Dudley & Stephens called Cannibalism and Common Law http://www.historytoday.com/lentin/cannibalism-and-common-law which is a great pre-read.

There's a talk that refers to it in the Harvard lecture series on morality can't recall which episode it is but worth watching
http://www.justiceharvard.org/

Jurisprudence-type books are great but make sure to get a less dense one, nothing like Hart as after a year on that course it still is hard to grasp.

beeftotheheels

usernamegoes wrote: »

Jurisprudence-type books are great but make sure to get a less dense one, nothing like Hart as after a year on that course it still is hard to grasp.

Good point, hence my rowing back to "what interests you? Maybe Philippe Sands?" Thanks for clarifying that **shudders to think of a pre-LLB student picking up Leviathan**

If the OP is interested in women's rights, the environment, human rights, slavery, criminal law I'm sure posters can come up with suggestions along your lines of thought provoking without specifics which I think is the ideal definition for a pre-read.

Stuff you might want to read later, stuff you could actually read now to get you thinking about the issues without bogging you down in facts or statutory references.

I'm assuming no one is going to express a great grá for company law or contracts before they even start an LLB, unlikely that there would be good thought provoking background reading for that.

NoQuarter

The very fact that your friend was asking questions in class means he was probably well ahead of the others. Being confused as to an issue is better than not knowing the issue at all!

Nutshells is your only man!

Jurisprudence books? You'll scare the chap away!!

beeftotheheels

NoQuarter wrote: »

The very fact that your friend was asking questions in class means he was probably well ahead of the others. Being confused as to an issue is better than not knowing the issue at all!

Nutshells is your only man!

Nope, he really didn't get it. He used to bring up tort remedies in contract cases, he'd try constructing trusts to get around pure economic loss issues despite the fact that WDLB was freshly decided, not because he was thinking outside the box but because he didn't get the basics.

He graduated with a pass degree and 12 years later is still working as a paralegal from what I've heard, unlike those of us who left Nutshells alone, read the real materials, formed views, got better degrees and ultimately got good jobs.

On my first day I hadn't a clue what a remedy was, let alone whether the action was in tort or in contract or why that mattered. But I learned it, contract in first year, tort in second, and I never got confused because I had good teachers and not Nutshells.

I don't blame Nutshells, but I think reading Nutshells in place of textbooks can by symptomatic of not actually wanting to think or learn about the law. Nutshells as a revision aid is one thing, certainly has merits there, but Nutshells as pre-reading is completely another!

BornToKill

beeftotheheels wrote: »

GI'm assuming no one is going to express a great grá for company law or contracts before they even start an LLB, unlikely that there would be good thought provoking background reading for that.

On the contrary, there is a wealth of company material including the classic 'Barbarians at the Gate'.

NoQuarter

beeftotheheels wrote: »

Nope, he really didn't get it. He used to bring up tort remedies in contract cases

What like damages under deceit in tort for a fraudulent misrepresentation or damages in negligent misstatement for a negligent misrepresentation?

I get what you're saying though, nutshells is great for revision, its making my life a lot easier this week, but I never read them before my degree so maybe they aren't beneficial!

beeftotheheels

beeftotheheels wrote: »

I'm assuming no one is going to express a great grá for company law or contracts before they even start an LLB, unlikely that there would be good thought provoking background reading for that.

I never liked Company Law either before my degree or during it but I have to say I absolutely adore it now.

beeftotheheels

BornToKill wrote: »

On the contrary, there is a wealth of company material including the classic 'Barbarians at the Gate'.

How is that helpful? I mean it's a great read no doubt, but management, I suspect more by default than by intent, got a great price for their shareholders, even though what we now take as granted in the remit of good corporate governance (in Ireland Europe at least) was thrown out the window.

Nope, that's just a good finance book.

Actually I take that back, if the OP is interested in Finance then it is a good read, covers a bit of basics like structured finance (the First Boston proposal which kept KKR in the game was all about the notion that tax deductions can make or break a deal, and KKR learned that lesson well even if RJR Nabisco wasn't a great deal for them), the relationship of an adviser with their private equity clients, dealing with management in a buy-out, and OMG corporate debt and the junk bond market! Not so informative on company law though.

On a par however would be something like 'Liar's Poker' to get a bit more background (and déjà vu) on bond trading.

Or to get a decent background understanding of finance the OP could just read the decent blogs like

http://economicsofcontempt.blogspot.com/ - a finance lawyer

http://epicureandealmaker.blogspot.com/ - an investment banker

http://kiddynamitesworld.com/ - a former trader

BornToKill

The way I see it, someone starting the LLB in two months shouldn't try to overload now on specific details and would instead do better to look at the bigger picture. There will be lots of time for the details in the months to come. As Kayroo said, company can be interesting but tends not to be at college. Incidentally, I would very much agree that 'Liar's Poker' and 'The Big Short' are excellent finance reads.