Post cult syndrome.

Torakx

Hey..again.
Its been a while since i posted here,but generally i take a very round about way to get to the point so i hope your patient,in case i write too much!

Basically i have been through a whole lot of crap over the years.Mostly to do with my physical health which lead to bacteria going to my brain and causing severe depression for many years.
I was also in a very strict religion from the ages of 8 to about 23.
I broke away from it when i was feeling suicidal and didnt care at the time if i died at gods hands etc.
So in a way,being sick was my saving grace! haha

Anyway i have had ALOT of free time over the last 2 or 3 years and have researched nearly everything i could get my hands on.
Ive used diet research and symptoms checkers to solve the health issue,that the doctors couldnt figure for the life of them and the depression is totally gone.
Ive found NLP and basic psychology books(big thanks to Carl Jungs works!) to understand myself alot more and motivate myself to change my life.

However i still feel i need more information on post cult syndrome.
I know i am still effected socially from it and i would like to understand all the mechanics involved.
You can tell me to see a therapist till the cows come home,but it isnt going to happen.
The problem with being told how to think all your life is when you spring back, you dont trust anyone with your mental or physical health.The doctors only reinforced this motto with me unfortunately.

I basically would appreciate if anyone here has very detailed information that deals with post cult syndrome or anything similar to that.

I wil probably buy a book on it from waterstones or somewhere like that too and would appreciate some info on a good book to get a full understanding of this.

Also since this thread is here,
I would enjoy chatting to people here about their thoughts on post cult syndrome and if they think it is quite common here in Ireland.
Also in what other forms that mechanic may appear in people.

And lastly if anyone has been in a cult or strict religion and would like to pm me and chat i would be more than happy to swap experiences with them.
It is partly what drew me to psychology after i sorted the depression stuff out.
Sorry another question, is there any area/college in ireland where this kind of work would be done or studied as a speciality?
I would love to be at the forefront of that, helping to improve techniques to help people re-adjust to life "outside".
Just a small fantasy maybe,it seems impossible to reach that goal from what ive read on colleges and work experience.

Please inform me if there s an issue with this post.I dont wish to infringe on forum rules as i understand why they are there.
As i see it i am not seeking medical advice or any kind of therapy from this forum.
Just information and direction for future research.

looksee

You were involved in a cult. You left it. You were depressed, you got over the depression. Apparently you have done more reading about post cult syndrome than most people, but, I suspect, without the broad knowledge of psychology to properly make use of that information.

The bottom line is, you are over the depression, why are you so intent on hanging on to a period of your life that is over? If you are going to continue to be so totally absorbed by it you are no better off than if you had remained in the cult.

You are too close to the situation to help other people make sense of their issues, the more important thing is for you to look beyond your experience and move on with your life. Do you have a job? Are you qualified to work at anything? Look at what you would like to do, outside of psychology, and try and find some way of studying and working. You may eventually come back to your experiences and find some way of using it to help others, but not yet.

Everyone has life experiences that they have to work through, whether it is bereavement, an unhappy homelife, serious health issues, a bad relationship. There comes a time when you have to put it behind you and get on with your life. There is no benefit to you in continually living it over and over. Let it go and broaden your horizons, be grateful you got out when you did, now make it worthwhile.

Torakx

Thanks for the support
My aim is not to hang onto past grievances, but to take as much as i can from them in a positive way and re-adjust to help cope with living a totally different life.Im most of the way there to be honest.Just a few habits and mainly being socially resistent, despite my want to be social.

Since my own research has helped me so much in the last few years i want to contnue maturing and adjusting in the same manor as before.
To do that now i must research post cult syndrome,its psychological effects and get a true understanding of all lthe mechanics involved.
Think of it as a fun project that i am excited to do and will also educate and help me grow as a person.

You are indeed right that i am too close to the subject right now to consider working in that area.
Which is why i am constantly in two minds
Between realistic goals and an outlet im guessing for issues still left to be dealth with.
Indecisiveness seems to be one of the traits lol
But i already understand this and so do not intend as yet, to commit to 6-10 years for a career i may not be suited to.
Once i decide something i tend to keep a hold of it until im at the end,so i spend a very long time making important choices.

Someone gave me a link to an irish website which lead me to this
http://www.rickross.com/
Some interesting info there.
However im looking for alot more detail and indepth study on the processes involved with the mind and person during and after cult exposure.
So if anyone can recommend study texts i can buy i would appreciate it aswell.

ps, incase it wasnt clear as is my habit lol
the reason i cant "let it go", is because this type of stuff effects your whole personality and forms habits in ways of thinking about many facets of everyday life that you may not even of imagined.
I will and have been breaking down habitual behaviour over the years and more to come,which takes tme and patience and it isnt realistic to just forget and act differently.
Im actually quite happy within myself,i just refuse to stagnate

TrollHammaren

Hey Torakx, I'm a psychology graduate (hopefully postgraduate soon!) who was involved in a cult (or at least I consider it a cult) for a while, but it didn't seem to affect me as badly as it appears to have affected you because I wasn't as exposed to it.

I don't think cult syndrome is an actual clinical illness; I don't know much about it, but it seems to me to be more of a collection of detrimental effects often experienced by people withdrawing from years of cult involvement. Thsi may seem like I'm just being pedantic, but the reason I say this is because I don't believe there are any specific underlying psychological mechanisms involved in cult syndrome outside of cognitive dissonance, a sense of anomie, and poor socialisation. I'm sure there are many other psychological mechanisms involved, but one of the main reasons coming out of a cult you've spent years in has such a negative effect is that you will have missed out on years of healthy socialisation, and healthy socialisation is vital to get on socially.

Luckily, there is a remedy for this. Join a club, a sport, a society. Get a job working with people (I know it's easier said than done in this economic environment), volunteer, interact with people. The more diverse friends you make, and the more you interact, the more you'll develop socially.

I highly doubt there are any formal, accredited courses on cult syndrome, and I don't think an in-depth understanding of psychology would be much help to you either. Psychology is an academic discipline, and you don't learn about your "self" or anything like it.

I'd be happy to sawp stories about our cult experiences, and give you some advice. I came out healthy and functioning after my cult experiences, so it is possible. Feel free to drop me a PM!

themadhair

Interesting thread. It would help greatly to know which particular cult you were involved with as, while there are a lot of commonalities between different cultic groups, there are some important differences. Having no qualifications in this area whatsoever, allow me to share my €0.02 based upon my own observations in the hope it may prove of some use.

The key thing to realise is that a person leaving a cult does not mean that the cult has left the person. How the group influenced a person while they were still involved can help with determining a course of recovery (hence my asking which group). One thing that I have noticed is the role of language and conceptual thought within this process.

What you describe as ‘post cult syndrome’ may be the perseverance of cult programming. When you were part of the group you may have adopted certain cult language, cult phraseology and cult concepts that may still be present in your subconscious today. Ex-Scientologists, for example, often still think and speak in Scientology terms/concepts long after they have left the group. Shedding these terms/concepts seems to play an important role in recovery.

The suggestion of joining a club/sport/society is a good one as exposure to new people will mean you will end up adopting new words/concepts into your speech and thinking – some of which may help to replace cultic words/concepts that you still hold.

TrollHammaren

themadhair wrote: »

One thing that I have noticed is the role of language and conceptual thought within this process.

What you describe as ‘post cult syndrome’ may be the perseverance of cult programming. When you were part of the group you may have adopted certain cult language, cult phraseology and cult concepts that may still be present in your subconscious today. Ex-Scientologists, for example, often still think and speak in Scientology terms/concepts long after they have left the group. Shedding these terms/concepts seems to play an important role in recovery.

Spot on, man. The phrasing, use of language, and habituated way of thinking plays such a crucial role of cult influence. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Odysseus

Language is fundamental, especially the it can be used by cults etc, the same can be seen in other "sub-groups" like 12 step fellowships and the like. I have no problem with this thread, it's an interesting topic, I acknowledge the OP states he is not seeking advice or support, however I have seen some posts bordering on it. Can we all remember this is a place for the discussion of psych related topics, anything please keep to PM as one poster suggested.

JuliusCaesar

Some interesting work done in this area - I'll try to dig up a few links.

In the meantime: http://www.icsahome.com/ has lots of articles if you do a search.

Jill Mytton is a psychologist who was brought up in a cult - there's some YouTube stuff with her.

Torakx

Some interesting posts here.
I had expected there to be an area within psychology or psychoanalysis that dealth with this stuff.

I also noticed too that language is indeed one of the major ways these groups maintain control of a persons thought patterns.
I dont know if i should name the group and start going into detail about any one organisation though.
Is that allowed or a good idea here?

But i can give some examples of behaviour linked to word use within the group and its after effects, which i had considered to be post cult syndrome.

One word is "worldly"
So people not in the group are considered worldly people and part of satans world,which adds many other negative prejudices to these people with all considered.
This had the effect with me that when i was in the group i was only used to trusting my fellow brothers and sisters and not people who werent in the religion.
After i left which was about 7 years ago,i still had trouble trusting people and felt very weird letting them into my home.
I am still a little awkward with new people i dont know coming in and it takes me a long time to warm up to people and trust them.
To me this is very much so, due to my previous religious beliefs and this religion might not be seen as a cult,but i certainly see cult like activity within it.

Another word that might ring some bells with people is the description used to the religion in a casual setting.
Within the group its very very common not to refer to the religions name within the group,
Everyone uses an informal description between each other that reinforces the belief system unconsciously.
So they will always refer to it as "the truth" instead of the religions name.

When i meet people who are still in it and they recognise me i will still say to them "oh im not in the truth anymore,i stopped going a good while back" Its so casual most members dont realise its subtle mind control.
That phrase came out of the magazines they print.
I say it like that because i would speak their language.
Among friends or others i would use the name now,because i detest that ideology so much.

About me personally.I am actually fine and dont really need personal advice.
I have already attended a mixed martal arts club(which would be polar to that former life and a good way to push my boundaries) and hope to go back when i can afford to do so, for the reasons stated in one of the posts above.I realise to break the mould i need to push myself out there and havent too much issue doing so really.
What i need is to understand the mechanics of what has happened to me during the programming and then my rebellion after i left.

Im already doing everything that can be done to counter all this stuff,but i found when i read alot into NLP and the left right brain traits i understood myself much more and this helped me to forgive myself and find ways to motivate.

I guess since there doesnt appear to be an official area dedicated to this, can anyone tell me topics i can research to collect info on all the parts involved?

One example i noticed is that people who have been in this group for a long time, especially during childhood and teenage years, tend to spring back in the other direction and go a bit wild,like they need to make up for lost time or rebel against their previous beliefs.
For me it was drink,drugs and sex.
Another family member it was a tattoo.
Anyone know what this is called?
I think whatever the mechanic is that drives this, is one of the main ones i need to focus on learning about.
Or is that just the mind doings its thing in general? lol

TrollHammaren

I replied to quite a few of the things you mentioned here in my PMs, Torakx, so sorry if I repeat myself!

Martial arts FTW! I've been doing them since I was 7 - woo! Sorry, back on topic!

It's funny how you mentioned the whole "not in the truth" thing. In my cult, which I'll happily name if the mods give the all-clear, they had what was basically a mantra, in that everyone "bore their testimony" and it almost invariably included the words "the Church is true". When I left, one of my biggest influences in the church basically said that he predicted that I would go "apostate" and that I would start drinking. The use of the word "apostate", and the way in which he "predicted" I would start drinking, was him putting a value-judgement on certain behaviour. Not that it matters, but I never did start drinking (I've worked as a bouncer since I was 17, so I've had more than enough exposure to it to turn me off), but even if I had started drinking, it wouldn't have made me any less of a person, despite how the Mormons would view it. You could argue that I did go apostate, in that nowadays I am very vocal about my opposition to the church, but I believe that it's a very positive thing that I oppose it. Calling me "apostate" (which doesn't bother me in the slightest) is akin to calling a gay man a sodomite, or a sexually liberal person a "slut".

Sorry for offering unsolicited advice, I think I got a bit overboard

I know I mentioned this in the PM, but be careful what you read. NLP isn't supported very well in the academic literature, and the whole left brain/right brain thing is almost complete bollocks. The is a very small element of truth to it, but as someone whose main area of research is cognitive neuroscience it gets on my nerves when popular psychology books profess that there's some sort of left brain/right brain divide. I won't get into it; there are some specialised unilateral functions, sort of, but it's much more complicated than that. Sorry, I'm rambling again!

One area that might be of interest to you, which I mentioned in the PM, is cognitive dissonance. To learn more about that I'd recommend ant undergraduate intro to psychology textbooks such as "Psychological Science" by Gazzaniga and Heatherton (I haven't got the full reference to hand, sorry!) I always recommend people avoid pop psychology like the plague.

I don't think there's any specific mechanic behind the kind of rebellion you mentioned there that's supported by the literature, but it probably has something to do with habituating to your new-found freedom. It's like an 18-year-old moving out of his parents' house and realising he can have ice cream for breakfast because there's no one there to tell him not to. Paraphrasing Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw, after a few difficult shíts you'll realise it's probably a bad idea!

Torakx

It is true i take alot of things at face value to start and if they relate to me as correctly as i have read i am more likely to believe its true.

The whole left right brain thing i have already been told is a load of crap.
But its so accurate of me its uncanny.

Im left handed and right footed.
Im was always good at art and have a atural orientation towards fantasy books,philosophy and alot of the other arts.
Im very good at sports,think in a vey random pattern and learn in the same fashion and the list goes on.
All of these things are my strongest traits and all have been associated with the right side of the brain except being right footed.
Im kind of ambidextrous with both hands,to a point where it can be confusing lol
Anyway i would love to learn why this is not so.I accept it may be the case but, for now i dont SEE how.I only see what i have taken in so far.
I have a problem taking peoples word for anything after leaving such a controlled life,so i hope you folks have patience

With the NLP, i realise too its seen as pseudo science to many people.
I stil believe it is very powerful on the short term and it you lay anchors that will trigger or reinforce themselves everyday i think the effects can be longterm.
For example,i use my mobile phone as an anchor to remind me to go out more.
It works great in that i see it, i remember i could go for a jog and i end up going out running for an hour.
The downside was when i got broken i had to wait for a month to get it fixed and i didnt really go out much in that time,which lead to bad habits surfacing.
End of the dauy wether NLP works on not,i think the fact i believe it works could even have a positive effect to make it worth doing.

With leaving a cult there is alot of habitual thinking that is sewn into the psyche i believe.
And i need all the tricks i can use to train new ways of thinking so i do it unconsciously eventually.

"Psychological Science" by Gazzaniga and Heatherton il keep an eye out for this one thanks!
Keep the book lists coming

TrollHammaren

As I mentioned to krd before, if you start basing your understanding of something on your own limited experience, and start applying this understanding to other people/situations, you may be falling into a logical fallacy. The example I gave is a family member of mine who is utterly convinced that Alzheimer's disease and dimentia are two separate illnesses. She believes this because her father had Alzheimer's, and that he had memory loss, but her friend's father was diagnosed with "dementia", but he had no memory loss. A really ridiculous example is if you had a blue pineapple, and started believing all pineapples were blue. What I'm taking too many fúcking words to say is that just because what you were told about the right brain/left brain seems to fit very well with your own experiences, it doesn't mean it's right. Stopped clock and all that. If you're interested in understanding how the central ners system works there's always "Introduction to Brain and Behaviour" by Kolb and Wishaw. As usual, I'm derailing the thread!

I wouldn't recommend using "tricks" to get yourself out of the cult frame of mind, but I promised I wouldn't give any more advice!

Torakx

Advice is always good to me if it increass my knowledge.
But there are forum rules so we have to be sure it doesnt appear i am being treated online lol

Il write down that book too.
I really have only read some pop psychology and a few books on the basics of Freud and Jung.(reminds me if anyone has left religion behind you might like to read Carl G Jungs book called "Answer To Job")
Oh also and this really interesting website!
http://www.carlzimmer.com/articles/2005/articles_2005_gazzaniga.html

I found alot of articles here very interesting.Dont know if you would consider this pseudo science or not though.

Just realised Gazzaniga was mention in one of the books you suggested.
heres an article on him from this site.
I think deals with his work with split brain patients.
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0613FA39540C738DDDAC0894DD404482

TrollHammaren

I can't read the articles at the moment but Gazzaniga is by no means a pop psychologist - he's a huge, huge name in cognitive neuroscience, and he has greatly contributed to the research into hemispheric neglect. Mind you, a lot of pop psychologists have a habit of misinterpreting and misrepresenting his findings, but you get that everywhere.