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Touchy Subject: Psychology Vs Medicine
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12-08-2011 9:47pm#1I am at risk of stating the obvious here, I have felt in the past that the medical community looks down on Psychology in general with a hocus pocus type attitude. I know some doctors in fact who have a genuine dislike of psychologists. My opinion on that as a psychologist is that it is a fear response.
My own story is simple, I want to study neuropsychology however it is a vague career path here in Ireland, with study in the UK a necessity. Even if I do go on to practice neuropsychology after jumping through many psychology hoops such as the rigmorole attached to accessing a Dclin, my salary and status will never meet that of an MD's.
Im sure it has crossed the mind of many of you that it is a quicker route to Psychiatry than to Clinical Psychology.
I'm looking for some opinions and a general discussion on this. Any thoughts or beefs
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I am at risk of stating the obvious here, I have felt in the past that the medical community looks down on Psychology in general with a hocus pocus type attitude. I know some doctors in fact who have a genuine dislike of psychologists. My opinion on that as a psychologist is that it is a fear response.
My own story is simple, I want to study neuropsychology however it is a vague career path here in Ireland, with study in the UK a necessity. Even if I do go on to practice neuropsychology after jumping through many psychology hoops such as the rigmorole attached to accessing a Dclin, my salary and status will never meet that of an MD's.
Im sure it has crossed the mind of many of you that it is a quicker route to Psychiatry than to Clinical Psychology.
I'm looking for some opinions and a general discussion on this. Any thoughts or beefs
So to summarise - you want to be paid as a doctor, without actually being a doctor or meeting the standards of education required to practice as a physician. Length of study is not the issue (despite it taking ~ 14 years to be able to work as a general psychiatrist).
Therefore, doctors are afraid of ur awzum pwarzz!!!
I would imaging your interview for medicine would be hilarious, "why do you want to be a doctor" - "well, primarily the salary and status, but I don't really know what it involves TBH. Is it like sikologygyololol"?
They are entirely different fields. If you want to be a psychiatrist, then fire ahead. Nothing is stopping you. Especially, if as you said, it's quicker and other doctors will be afraid of you. Has it occured to you that those other people (because doctors are people as well right) dislike those psychologists (who are also people too) because they think they are a55holes? And just don't like their personalities? Nothing to do with career, status, or money or what letters your have after your name.0 -
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Interesting to see peoples take on my post.Huh? They're completely different fields. Neither neuropsych nor clinical are routes to psychiatry - you have to study medicine to become a psychiatrist. If you're looking for shortcuts to psychiatry then I'm afraid I have some bad news.
Psychiatry involves psychotherapy, and working with mental handicaps, it is not completely different to Psychology. Psychology career path is quite diverse. Mainly the difference is prescription.I don't know where you're getting this "fear response" thing from; until psychologists learn how to treat bacterial infections, lacerations, a prolapsed anus etc doctors have nothing to worry about. Besides, of all the med students I've ever met, 9/10 of them are too far up their own rectums to be even remotely interested in what a psyhologist does.
Usually when someone does not know much about something that intrudes on their normal activity, they dismiss or mock it out of fear. This is a basic fear response. Are you dismissing my post out of fear? Of course doctors care about the psyche of their patient don't you know what stress does to bacterial infections, lacerations, and a prolapsed anus? Don't you think a doctor feels something towards another professional who affects their practice, patients, and income?
Dissed doc, you've told a lot through your post. Is it wrong on my part to say doing 4 years MD training in comparison to minimum 8 years Psy training is silly? Jokettle is right in that interest is an important decider, and I understand the road is hard in Medicine, the work also very demanding. Of course I have respect for the work done by a doctor, however in my experience it doesnt work both ways in the surgery. Unfortunately its a well known issue in prescribing anti depressants within the surgery that a doctor will prescribe before recommending talking treatments, there are many reasons for this, again touchy subjects, firstly free holidays from the drug companies, bonuses, quick fix solution (even though they take a few weeks to kick in) that is addictive, and not trusting the work of a CBT therapist or psychoanalyst (there is no legislation to assist this trust).you want to be paid as a doctor, without actually being a doctor or meeting the standards of education required to practice as a physician. Length of study is not the issue (despite it taking ~ 14 years to be able to work as a general psychiatrist).
Salary and status? Are you mad of course they are incentives to become interested in something. What do mean the standards of education required to practice as a physician you pompous twat, are you saying the standards of education in Psychology are somewhat below medicine? Clever dock!Has it occured to you that those other people (because doctors are people as well right) dislike those psychologists (who are also people too) because they think they are a55holes? And just don't like their personalities? Nothing to do with career, status, or money or what letters your have after your name
Of course Ive considered that do you think I live in a bubble? When it comes to mental health within the doctors surgery a doctor is not qualified to offer advice, this is my stance on the matter, pumping people with mental issues full of drugs only makes matters worse. Accept it doc. A psychiatrist is qualified to offer advice however.
I honestly thought Psychiatry involved 4 years med school followed by a masters in psychiatry and a 3 year internship. I was wrong. They deserve their ferrari's
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Psychiatry involves psychotherapy, and working with mental handicaps, it is not completely different to Psychology. Psychology career path is quite diverse. Mainly the difference is prescription.
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When it comes to mental health within the doctors surgery a doctor is not qualified to offer advice, this is my stance on the matter, pumping people with mental issues full of drugs only makes matters worse. Accept it doc. A psychiatrist is qualified to offer advice however.
I honestly thought Psychiatry involved 4 years med school followed by a masters in psychiatry and a 3 year internship. I was wrong. They deserve their ferrari's
I've spent most of my working life in multi-disciplinary teams.
There's always been a disparity of income between individual members of the team- psychiatrists, social workers, nurses, psychologists etc. There's also a huge difference in insurance levels; some of us pay little or none. In terms of responsibility, it's often been annoying on a minor level that the psychiatrist is the de facto team leader. BUT most teams work fairly well by the individuals having respect for each others' expertise and skills. In fact psychologists are quite well paid compared to other team members. Registrars aren't that well paid, nurses are at the bottom compared with others, SWs do ok etc. Jockeying for status can be very destructive to the overall team. I've liked some members, and disliked others. I can think of very few who I really hated working with.
The only non-medics who prescribe are nurses.
And guess what? curadh - life isn't fair. You want more status, more pay? Work away. But don't make it personal.0 -
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What does a psyhologist do?
Well done. Gold star for you for being so clever and perceptive. Four more of those and I'll send a letter home saying what a good boy you are.But hey, aren't there some therapists allowed to write prescriptions for psychiatric meds without having a medical degree?
No. Not in Ireland.Psychiatry involves psychotherapy, and working with mental handicaps, it is not completely different to Psychology. Psychology career path is quite diverse. Mainly the difference is prescription.
There's definitely overlap, but you still have to go through med school to become a psychiatrist.Usually when someone does not know much about something that intrudes on their normal activity, they dismiss or mock it out of fear. This is a basic fear response. Are you dismissing my post out of fear?
This sounds like pop psychology to me.Of course doctors care about the psyche of their patient don't you know what stress does to bacterial infections, lacerations, and a prolapsed anus?
Yes I do, but promoting absolutely perfect mental health in a patient won't get rid of any of those ailments. Medicine and psychology can be highly complimentary, and you'll find it very often happens that a GP will refer you on to a psychologist. For example, a GP can't diagnose someone with ADHD, so they'll refer them to a psychologist or psychiatrist.Don't you think a doctor feels something towards another professional who affects their practice, patients, and income?
I think you have an inaccurate view of the healthcare system.its a well known issue in prescribing anti depressants within the surgery that a doctor will prescribe before recommending talking treatments, there are many reasons for this, again touchy subjects, firstly free holidays from the drug companies, bonuses, quick fix solution (even though they take a few weeks to kick in) that is addictive, and not trusting the work of a CBT therapist or psychoanalyst (there is no legislation to assist this trust).
Firstly, it definitely can and does happen that a doctor just isn't arsed recommending anything beyond a few anti-depressants, but that's not out of fear of psychologists, it's just lazy practice. Any good GP will refer on if necessary.
Secondly, the whole pharmaceutical free holiday thing is chiefly an American issue, and we don't have to put up with as much of that shíte in Ireland. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but you can be pretty sure your local GP isn't being put up by Pfizer in a 5 star hotel in Dubai. Conspiracy theorists hate pharmaceutical companies
Salary and status? Are you mad of course they are incentives to become interested in something.
Are you saying someone who isn't in it for ego and personal gain is mad? I want to get into research, not because of salary or status, but because I want to contribute to the growing bofy of cognitive neuroscientific knowledge.I'm pretty sure in the US, certain psychologists are allowed write prescriptions from a limited list. They can't write scripts for antibiotics, but I think a registered child psychologist in New York can write a script for Ritalin.
I doubt it. I wouldn't put it past them (it being America and all), but I would have to verify it before I believe it.
curadh, if you don't mind me asking, did you do a psychology degree, and if so, where?0 -
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Of course Ive considered that do you think I live in a bubble? When it comes to mental health within the doctors surgery a doctor is not qualified to offer advice, this is my stance on the matter, pumping people with mental issues full of drugs only makes matters worse. Accept it doc. A psychiatrist is qualified to offer advice however.I honestly thought Psychiatry involved 4 years med school followed by a masters in psychiatry and a 3 year internship. I was wrong. They deserve their ferrari's
Eh no! 5-6 years medical school (unless you already have done a degree, so 8 years of undergraduate university), then: 1 year intern, 3-4 years basic training, 1-2 years lecturing or research, then 3 more years specialist training.
By your talk of surgeries, I think you are confusing general practitioners with psychiatrists. And, 95% of medication is prescribed by people with no psychiatric training. That is how the HSE choose to run things.0 -
Dissed doc, yes its a long road alright. For me, I think experience is everything therefore the longer someone has spent developing schema on something the more expert they will be, and I also equate this expertise with pay sometimes. That is why a part of me feels peeved that a GP can possibly (through graduate entry med) do 4 years, only touching on mental health issues, then begin firing out mental health advice and anti depressants etc. when a psychologist who has a vast expertise in mental health is only considered as supplementary or auxillary to the process.
I am also starting to believe I may be from a different generation of thought, the generation when psychologists were almost taboo.
Also, dissed doc I'm aware of what a psychiatrist is, and what a GP is. What gave you the impression I was confusing these?Thanks, but I already completed my 2nd year psychology modules.
Anyway, you go ahead and book yourself in for a session with a psychologist next time you break your leg or come down with the flu, I'm sure he'll prescribe you some positive mental health and well being; you'll be fixed up in no time.
Trollhammaren are you being picky because I was a bit picky? That was purely because I considered your first reply to be offensive. At what point did I say people with broken legs or acute illness or injury should be recommended a psychologist? All the other 'titbits' you've highlighted I have already explained my stance on.
Also, 'pop' psychology that you have brought up to explain something I have talked about, can come from many places, and 'evolve' in some bright sparks head into a nice little bestseller. A lot of these ideas have come from actual pscyhological theories, except, as Ive said 'evolved' into the authors own theories, such as Freud's Oedipus complex, which has been chewed up and spit out in many different ways in the popular media. Whilst Im on the topic would you consider a pioneer of neuroscience and father of Psychoanalysis' literature to be up to academic scrutiny? You wont find Freuds papers on Metapsychology in the 'pop' section.
I like the joke though 0 -
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