Dublin Bus route 238 - new timetable

devnull

It has today been revealed that Dublin Bus are rerouting the 238 bus which runs between Ladyswell Road - Mulhuddart - Blanchardstown - Snugbrough Road to Tyrrelstown to now also serve Corduff and cease serving Ballycoolin.

This now directly is a complete clone of the Urbus route between Tyrrelstown and Blanchardstown Center, whilst abandoning sections of the route that the 238 uniquely served.

Whats more Dublin Bus are also planning to introduce a new route, 41a, which runs from Swords to Dublin Airport, also a clone of the same urbus route from Swords to Dublin Airport.

The also other revealing change is that Dublin Bus are to change the fare structure as despite the website reading that a stage system exists, it was confirmed to me when taking the 238 in the past that there is currently a promotion on tickets from Tyrrelstown to Blanchardstown centre which means you will only be charged for three stages rather than four, but longer than this will be charged at normal rates.

This seems to be a deliberate attempt both to run a private operator off the road, and use a fare system which is designed to reduce fares for those on competing sections of the route, by appearing to use a flat fare for 1-4 stages, and then charge normal fare structure for over 4 stages, because there isw no competition on these legs.

Apart from Dublin Bus this will also benefit taxi drivers. The reason being the whole of Dublin 15 relys on Urbus for the only bus to the airport from this area, by Dublin Bus trying to run parallel in large sections of the urbus route, it will make such route less viable, and the people in the area will have no choice but to either use a taxi, or go via a long detour to the city center to get to the airport.

Whilst I can see why Dublin Bus have done this, I cannot see why the NTA have approved it - all it will do is reduce journey opportunities across the city, not increase them and it seems they were too busy looking at Dublin Bus, rather than the bigger picture.

LXFlyer

devnull wrote: »

It has today been revealed that Dublin Bus are rerouting the 238 bus which runs between Ladyswell Road - Mulhuddart - Blanchardstown - Snugbrough Road to Tyrrelstown to now also serve Corduff and cease serving Ballycoolin.

This now directly is a complete clone of the Urbus route between Tyrrelstown and Blanchardstown Center, whilst abandoning sections of the route that the 238 uniquely served.

Whats more Dublin Bus are also planning to introduce a new route, 41a, which runs from Swords to Dublin Airport, also a clone of the same urbus route from Swords to Dublin Airport.

The also other revealing change is that Dublin Bus are to change the fare structure as despite the website reading that a stage system exists, it was confirmed to me when taking the 238 in the past that there is currently a promotion on tickets from Tyrrelstown to Blanchardstown centre which means you will only be charged for three stages rather than four, but longer than this will be charged at normal rates.

This seems to be a deliberate attempt both to run a private operator off the road, and use a fare system which is designed to reduce fares for those on competing sections of the route, by appearing to use a flat fare for 1-4 stages, and then charge normal fare structure for over 4 stages, because there isw no competition on these legs.

Apart from Dublin Bus this will also benefit taxi drivers. The reason being the whole of Dublin 15 relys on Urbus for the only bus to the airport from this area, by Dublin Bus trying to run parallel in large sections of the urbus route, it will make such route less viable, and the people in the area will have no choice but to either use a taxi, or go via a long detour to the city center to get to the airport.

Whilst I can see why Dublin Bus have done this, I cannot see why the NTA have approved it - all it will do is reduce journey opportunities across the city, not increase them and it seems they were too busy looking at Dublin Bus, rather than the bigger picture.

If you're going to make accusations of false competition, at least back it up with accurate information.

The 238 will now serve Corduff estate, and provide a direct link between there and the Blanchardstown Centre, something the 220 (which is to be cancelled) currently does. There were numerous posts here and on the D15 board looking for a bus to so and the 238 will now do precisely that at a better frequency than the 220. Urbus does not serve Corduff - it operates along Blanchardstown Road North.

Per the news item the 238 WILL serve Ballycoolin despite what you suggest.

By going via Ballycoolin and Corduff the 238 will be longer than Urbus is between Tyrellstown and Blanchardstown SC.

As for the situation in Swords, well let's look at that in more detail.

The proposed hourly (half hourly peak) 41a is to link Swords Manor with Applewood, Glen Ellen, Swords Village, River Valley, Boroimhe and the Airport.

The 41 (every 20 minutes) will no longer serve the airport.

Some points on this:
1) Urbus do not serve Swords Manor

2) While the 41a and Urbus will both serve Applewood and Glen Ellan (albeit in opposite directions), you conveniently ignore the fact that Urbus will be the sole link between the Rathbeale Road and the Airport given the 41 will now bypass it.

3) Urbus do not operate via River Valley taking a far more direct route along Pinnock Hill and the Swords Road. Therefore they will be faster than the 41a - which is taking a longer route than the existing route 41 which will no longer connect with the airport.

I cannot see how any of that is going to drive Urbus out of business.

I can't comment on the fares being charged by DB between Tyrellstown and Blanchardstown SC as I'm not aware of such a promotion as you describe. However I would note that Urbus is still cheaper between those locations than the basic DB fare so that doesn't really tally with your argument.

I think when making a case such as above you really ought to do your homework a bit better and be a bit more balanced in your commentary rather than rushing to immediate conclusions.

Urbus offers a good service which is well patronised locally - the DB services will complement it rather than conflict. The fact that the 238 and Urbus do not leave either Tyrellstown and the Blanchardstown SC at the same times backs that theory up.

devnull

lxflyer wrote: »

The 238 will now serve Corduff estate, and provide a direct link between there and the Blanchardstown Centre, something the 220 (which is to be cancelled) currently does. There were numerous posts here and on the D15 board looking for a bus to so and the 238 will now do precisely that at a better frequency than the 220. Urbus does not serve Corduff - it operates along Blanchardstown Road North.

Urbus goes down Blanchardstown Road North serving Warrenstown, and Blanchardstown IT, before going down to the shopping centre via Blanchardstown Road North.

Per the news item the 238 WILL serve Ballycoolin despite what you suggest.

I was told actually that it will serve from Tyrrelstown the stop besides Blanchardstown corproate park which is right next to Ballycoolin and by Dublin Buses own admission it is going down via the IT College - this would be Blanchardstown Road North, the same part which urbus currently goes down. The 238 currently goes down Snugborough Road.

The proposed hourly (half hourly peak) 41a is to link Swords Manor with Applewood, Glen Ellen, Swords Village, River Valley, Boroimhe and the Airport.

I am not saying that the routes are exactly the same, but the new routes being introduced by Dublin Bus serve substantially more areas that are served by urbus than they do before the changes, anyone knows that to make a transport route work you need many areas to attract passengers from many stops and areas, and the addition of a public funded bus on sections of a privately operated route will reduce numbers.

I can't comment on the fares being charged by DB between Tyrellstown and Blanchardstown SC as I'm not aware of such a promotion as you describe. However I would note that Urbus is still cheaper between those locations than the basic DB fare so that doesn't really tally with your argument.

When the 236 stopped serving Tyrrelstown and the 238 started, previously the 236 had a flat fare between Tyrrelstown and Blanchardstown of the Minimum cash fare. When the 238 was introduced they said the flat fare was removed, and stage numbers are now published on the timetable. There are seven stages. Tyrrelstown to Blanchardstown SC (4 Stages) is being charged at 1.20 (Stages 1-3), yet for some reason any other four stage hop on the route is being charged at 1.65.

Urbus offers a good service which is well patronised locally - the DB services will complement it rather than conflict. The fact that the 238 and Urbus do not leave either Tyrellstown and the Blanchardstown SC at the same times backs that theory up.

Although some of the times are very close at certain times of the day - not saying there is anything in that but it is the case, it would be better for the traveling public if such times would be spread out rather than some services operating within 10 mins of each hour then a 50 minute gap.

May I also remind you of before Urbus started connecting Tyrrelstown to Blanchardstown Centre, Dublin Bus claimed they had no plans to operate more than 5 services a day between these areas, and none at weekend, but they quickly changed their mind just a few weeks later after years of saying there was no demand for such service when the competition came along and they also not only vastly increased the timetable they also matched the frequency of Urbus and introduced a weekend service,

KD345

Locals on here were calling for more buses between Corduff and Blanchardstown, now they have it, and Dublin Bus are accused of putting a private operator out of business, that's hardly fair. With the 220 being removed the new 238 will offer a link to the 17A to Ballymun and directly to Blanchardstown centre. I honestly don't see the problem.

The new 41A routing is simple. It allows the 41 to become a direct service between Dublin and Swords avoiding the airport, and makes the new 16 the main regular bus between the city centre and Dublin Airport. If you ask any current 41 passenger traveling from Swords to town what their gripe is, it would be having to travel through Dublin Airport.

LXFlyer

devnull wrote: »

lxflyer wrote: »

The 238 will now serve Corduff estate, and provide a direct link between there and the Blanchardstown Centre, something the 220 (which is to be cancelled) currently does. There were numerous posts here and on the D15 board looking for a bus to so and the 238 will now do precisely that at a better frequency than the 220. Urbus does not serve Corduff - it operates along Blanchardstown Road North.

Urbus goes down Blanchardstown Road North serving Warrenstown, and Blanchardstown IT, before going down to the shopping centre via Blanchardstown Road North.

Per the news item the 238 WILL serve Ballycoolin despite what you suggest.

I was told actually that it will serve from Tyrrelstown the stop besides Blanchardstown corproate park which is right next to Ballycoolin and by Dublin Buses own admission it is going down via the IT College - this would be Blanchardstown Road North, the same part which urbus currently goes down. The 238 currently goes down Snugborough Road.

The proposed hourly (half hourly peak) 41a is to link Swords Manor with Applewood, Glen Ellen, Swords Village, River Valley, Boroimhe and the Airport.

I am not saying that the routes are exactly the same, but the new routes being introduced by Dublin Bus serve substantially more areas that are served by urbus than they do before the changes, anyone knows that to make a transport route work you need many areas to attract passengers from many stops and areas, and the addition of a public funded bus on sections of a privately operated route will reduce numbers.

I can't comment on the fares being charged by DB between Tyrellstown and Blanchardstown SC as I'm not aware of such a promotion as you describe. However I would note that Urbus is still cheaper between those locations than the basic DB fare so that doesn't really tally with your argument.

When the 236 stopped serving Tyrrelstown and the 238 started, previously the 236 had a flat fare between Tyrrelstown and Blanchardstown of the Minimum cash fare. When the 238 was introduced they said the flat fare was removed, and stage numbers are now published on the timetable. There are seven stages. Tyrrelstown to Blanchardstown SC (4 Stages) is being charged at 1.20 (Stages 1-3), yet for some reason any other four stage hop on the route is being charged at 1.65.

Urbus offers a good service which is well patronised locally - the DB services will complement it rather than conflict. The fact that the 238 and Urbus do not leave either Tyrellstown and the Blanchardstown SC at the same times backs that theory up.

Although some of the times are very close at certain times of the day - not saying there is anything in that but it is the case, it would be better for the traveling public if such times would be spread out rather than some services operating within 10 mins of each hour then a 50 minute gap.

May I also remind you of before Urbus started connecting Tyrrelstown to Blanchardstown Centre, Dublin Bus claimed they had no plans to operate more than 5 services a day between these areas, and none at weekend, but they quickly changed their mind just a few weeks later after years of saying there was no demand for such service when the competition came along and they also not only vastly increased the timetable they also matched the frequency of Urbus and introduced a weekend service,

You are making a complete mountain out of a molehill - you're now accepting that the 238 and Urbus go different routes despite earlier saying they were virtual clones.

The amount of times Urbus and DB depart close together is minimal - and most times Urbus goes first.

As KD345 says - DB are responding to what their customers are asking for - whatever route the 41a took in Swords it would have to share roadspace with Urbus - as I see it that will be less going forward than the 41 currently is!!

A little less hyperbole would help.

LXFlyer

It would appear that URBUS have decided even before any of these changes take place to dramatically cut back their service to what is effectively a commuter service, and no longer a realistic connection for airport passengers, and have cancelled all weekend services.

MAJOR CHANGES TO URBUS TIMETABLE
As and from Monday 22nd August 2011 a new much curtailed bus timetable will operate due to the sharp decline in passenger usage.

In addition, this service will now only operate Monday to Friday with no week-end service operating.

We are sorry for any inconvenience this may cause you.

>>> Click here to download new timetable <<<

thomasj

Its a pity the 17a cannot be extended to the airport, follow the old airport route that ran from howth junction dart station

It would be great for blanchardstown, finglas, ballymun, santry, beaumont, coolock, kilbarrack and DART passengers