Uk Riots - Have the police done a good job

marcmc5

Its good to see that things are finally beginning to setlle down in the UK and that the authorities are beginning to get a handle on the rioting and looting situation. I was just wondering what is the general consensus of the policing of this disaster, in particular action taken by the london met police. Could they have dealt with things any better or were there hands tied by the usual governmental bureacracy. I feel that zero tolerance from the weekend would have been the only appropriate action. It was up to the government big wigs to allow the police to take wahtever steps were necessary to protect the innocent and safeguard their homes and business and they didnt act wquick enough.
I now believe that leniant sentences are now being passed down on these yobs that have been caught, further insult to injury for the emergency services and innocent civillians caaught up in this chaos.

source

This blog will answer your questions, in particular, this entry.

The regular cops on the street were rearing to get it sorted, but the higher ups were tying their hands, due to ultra politically correct views that are held in the UK.

marcmc5

source wrote: »

This blog will answer your questions, in particular, this entry.

The regular cops on the street were rearing to get it sorted, but the higher ups were tying their hands, due to ultra politically correct views that are held in the UK.

Can the parents really be made accountable for the acts of destruction and violence by their delinquent kids?

gilly0512

source wrote: »

This blog will answer your questions, in particular, this entry.

The regular cops on the street were rearing to get it sorted, but the higher ups were tying their hands, due to ultra politically correct views that are held in the UK.

A lot of mistakes have been made over the last few days and in particular by the MET, however I would hazard a guess that there are very few Police forces if any who could handle what went on in London over the last few days. Most Police forces can easily contain a situation when it is confined to one or two locations, however spread several situations out to the suburbs in a city the size of London and you are in serious trouble, added to the fact that all of these troublemakers were constantly on the move. It has also being argued that the Police were far too soft on these scumbags, however previous experience of riots was used for all of these situations which as we well know proved to be completely and utterly inadequate, plus it was more of a serious outbreak of public disorder rather than a riot that they were dealing with. I would hazard a guess that the manual for serious public disorder will be rewritten following on from these events, and a completely different response will be seen should anything like this ever happen again?

Zambia

There is a good short article below that has a very good quote from the PM

"Initially, the police treated the situation too much as a public order issue - rather than essentially one of crime,"

Anyone at first would think this was a public order issue, however it clearly became basically britains biggest smash and grab robbery. Something that was an entirely new animal to every police force.

It would seem the game has changed forever. Looting used to be a side effect of rioting I fear it may now be the actual reason for the riot itself.

The Met have admitted that they would do things differently in hindsight. They will also be the ones as mentioned in another thread to write the book on combating this new breed of criminality. Did they do a good job? I would say no but I cant think of any other force including any of the State police forces here in Oz doing any better.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14501236

Some ideas on the riots causes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14483149

Delancey

Its worth bearing in mind that The Met is under an ' acting ' commissioner as the last one resigned over the News of the World business , I wonder did this contribute to the paralysis which seemed to characterize the Met's initial response ?
I think the confidence the public ( the law-abiding public that is ) had in the Met has been severely dented by what they saw on their TV screens.

A lot of talk in the British media about what caused this trouble but relatively little about the initial Police response which its now accepted was totally inadequate.

I think any public inquiry should direct its efforts to find out why the Police acted as they did.

audidiesel

Delancey wrote: »

I think any public inquiry should direct its efforts to find out why the Police acted as they did.

i think theres a very simple answer to that. police know that if they are observed using any degree of force whatsoever they will be held under intense scrutiny.

when you keep enforcing the message that criminals rights are paramount and above your own and property owners, what do you expect.

if a police officer went to break up a rioting crowd and was assaulted and ended up taking a swing back, you can bet it would be the cop who would be prosecuted and probably loose their job.

in that case you would genuinely have to ask what could they do differently.

The Black Oil

Don't want to drag the thread off topic or into politics, but given the suggested tension between the UK government and the police, I'm wondering does the Garda Commissioner here avoid (by choice/duty) commenting on government policy/similar matters?

Delancey

The Black Oil wrote: »

Don't want to drag the thread off topic or into politics, but given the suggested tension between the UK government and the police, I'm wondering does the Garda Commissioner here avoid (by choice/duty) commenting on government policy/similar matters?

AGS as a force have to remain above politics though in practice that can prove difficult for someone like the Commissioner but I think its fair to say he would be reluctant to have a public ' spat ' with the Government.

By convention it would be inappropriate for a Garda Commissioner to make any comment about a Foreign Police Force or its handling of an operational situation and vice-versa.

The Black Oil

That's what I thought alright. Can't really see an Irish Hugh Orde type figure having a public falling out with our government.

What ultra PC dynamics are you referring to, source?

Terrontress

You only have to look at the response of the PSNI to recreational rioting to see the political impact on the UK's response. You have hundreds of well-trained officers who have the correct equipment, the training and the desire to stop their city's streets being destroyed yet senior police management have to keep everyone happy so they sit back and allow it to go on, using cctv evidence later. Meanwhile dozens of innocent people have their belongings destroyed, their livelihoods stolen.

There was massive discussion as to whether water cannon would be used. The water cannon deployed in NI has heating elements to bring it to body temperature so the poor little rioters don't get cold. I'd put ice in the bloody thing.

I think that if something similar were to happen in Ireland, the Gardai would go in and break some bones and would enjoy the support of the population in doing so.

source

The Black Oil wrote: »

What ultra PC dynamics are you referring to, source?

This is an extract from the link I posted:

At the briefing, many of my officers wanted cast-iron guarantees from Silver Command that no individual officers would be suspended and prosecuted if we use force and a rioter became seriously injured.

This was not forthcoming. There are at least 12 County forces here now, ‘Remember Tomlinson’ was being whispered everywhere at the FCP.

Many people are becoming very angry that we refuse to move our lines and baton charge the rioters. I have run around like a blue arsed fly trying to understand why we are being ordered to stay static; the only explanation I can find is that Gold Command are concerned about the sensitivity of the target group.

The scenes in front of us give a physical proof of everything we have ever said on this Blog about lack of consequences, weak criminal justice systems, nonsensical diversity policies which give ‘victim status’ to the mob and silly, target obsessed politically driven ACPO leadership. I never thought I’d see the results of all that actually burned on to the streets in front of me.

Firstly a lack of back up from the brass that if the PO officers did the job correctly they wouldn't be prosecuted for simply doing their job. In other words rioting scumbags making claims of assault after being hit with a baton.

Second, the "sensitivity of the target group", Brass didn't want PO officers to be seen on the news beating back a crowd made up mainly of black youths.

FGR

Terrontress wrote: »

the Gardai would go in and break some bones and would enjoy the support of the population in doing so.

Although I agree that the majority would support AGS in bringing an end to a similar situation I can't help but feel that the loud minority would yet again call for a Tribunal into it all and have every member involved hauled over the coals.