EBT Fraud - $7 million

Overheal

While the feds recently announced a spike in the number of Americans using food stamps, at least some of those 45.8 million people didn't exist. A Brooklyn woman who worked for NYC's Human Resources Administration has entered a guilty plea to charges of creating fake identities to scam the government out of millions in food stamp benefits.
Over the course of four years, and with the assistance of three pals, the city employee used fake names and Social Security numbers to create a world of more than 1,000 non-existent people that nonetheless qualified for food stamps. The EBT cards would be sent to these ghosts' addresses, collected by actual scammers and then sold to real human beings for a huge profit.
"These convictions are a warning to city employees and others who use the public coffers as if they were a personal ATM: investigators will shut down the corruption and individuals will be held accountable," Department of Investigation Commissioner Rose Gill Hearn said following the guilty plea.
City worker admits masterminding $7M food-stamp fraud [NY Post]




My question is how was this even possible? And how many other scams are bleeding us dry?

FISMA

In at least one liberal north east state, a fake social security number is honored.

It does not matter whether you stole it or made it up. If you show up to social services, you get paid.

Did you know that people coming to America are given classes abroad, in their home country on how to hide their money and get the States'? They arrive at social services with notebooks and can quote the law better than any lawyer.

Amazing - right off of the plane and they are already telling us to what they are entitled.

Also, "food stamps?" Do they still exist?

In the liberal NE, people are given credit cards as food stamps are too demeaning and you would not want to ostracize them from those that pay for their goods.

20Cent

Overheal wrote: »

My question is how was this even possible? And how many other scams are bleeding us dry?

7 million doesn't sound like much.


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/02/04/business/20090205-bailout-totals-graphic.html

http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/bailouttracker/

Overheal

20Cent wrote: »

7 million doesn't sound like much.


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/02/04/business/20090205-bailout-totals-graphic.html

http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/bailouttracker/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_by_a_thousand_cuts

FreudianSlippers

Overheal wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_by_a_thousand_cuts

In Oregon and Washington (and I think California) the EBT cards are the food stamps and only work for certain products.

So, if you go shopping and have food and beer, you swipe the EBT card and it will pay for approved items - so you'd still have to pay for the beer with some other form of money.

Overheal

Im not challenging the purpose of EBT/Stamps, I'm challenging the regulations in place for it and not for buying Beer, but for registering for the stamps in the first place with fabricated Social Security Numbers.

FreudianSlippers

Overheal wrote: »

Im not challenging the purpose of EBT/Stamps, I'm challenging the regulations in place for it and not for buying Beer, but for registering for the stamps in the first place with fabricated Social Security Numbers.

I actually meant to quote the end of FISMA's post, sorry.

pissants

Overheal wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_by_a_thousand_cuts

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/a+drop+in+the+ocean


I wonder why foodstamp usage is on the increase. here are some of my faaavourite pictures.









foodstamp fraud is worthy of no more discussion than to say 'it is bad and people doing it should probably be stopped'. corporate america is bleeding your country dry; a news article about a single incident of white-collar crime or the fact that some poors double up on foodstamps to avoid starving is laughable by comparison as far as 'fraud' is concerned.

pissants

FISMA wrote: »

In at least one liberal north east state, a fake social security number is honored.

It does not matter whether you stole it or made it up. If you show up to social services, you get paid.

Did you know that people coming to America are given classes abroad, in their home country on how to hide their money and get the States'? They arrive at social services with notebooks and can quote the law better than any lawyer.

Amazing - right off of the plane and they are already telling us to what they are entitled.

Also, "food stamps?" Do they still exist?

In the liberal NE, people are given credit cards as food stamps are too demeaning and you would not want to ostracize them from those that pay for their goods.

link, or this is a whole load of nothing.

Overheal

While your charts are lovely and all, what does that have to do with people defrauding the system with fake social security numbers? Are you not thinking about who else that $7 million could have gone to if it was being stolen out of people's mouths?

Your argument is in justifying an increase in the use of stamps, which is not anything to do with thread -at least not really. I really wouldn't mind if EBT use jumped up a few percentage points to match unemployment, as long as I had faith that the system couldn't be gamed. That's why I have such a problem with Ireland's Dole welfare system.

RichieC

FISMA wrote: »

In at least one liberal north east state, a fake social security number is honored.

It does not matter whether you stole it or made it up. If you show up to social services, you get paid.

Did you know that people coming to America are given classes abroad, in their home country on how to hide their money and get the States'? They arrive at social services with notebooks and can quote the law better than any lawyer.

Amazing - right off of the plane and they are already telling us to what they are entitled.

Also, "food stamps?" Do they still exist?

In the liberal NE, people are given credit cards as food stamps are too demeaning and you would not want to ostracize them from those that pay for their goods.

Funny I hear the exact same stories here in Ireland.

Where did you hear this?

pissants

Overheal wrote: »

While your charts are lovely and all, what does that have to do with people defrauding the system with fake social security numbers? Are you not thinking about who else that $7 million could have gone to if it was being stolen out of people's mouths?

Your argument is in justifying an increase in the use of stamps, which is not anything to do with thread -at least not really. I really wouldn't mind if EBT use jumped up a few percentage points to match unemployment, as long as I had faith that the system couldn't be gamed. That's why I have such a problem with Ireland's Dole welfare system.

I am saying that in the context of the recession and America's current political and economic woes this is comparatively nothing at best, and at worst, a vehicle for class warfare. You want to eliminate foodstamp fraud entirely? focus on the underlying problems.

Overheal

pissants wrote: »

link, or this is a whole load of nothing.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,72137,00.html

That was found with about 45 seconds of cursory googling, when I eventually landed on the common term 'Immigration Fraud'

You can google Immigration Fraud + Food Stamps; Social Security; Medicare; Marriage etc.

Though for a quick reminder before this devolves into Immigration issues, the Woman who stole this $7 Million was from Brooklyn. Presumably American since not otherwise stated and the fact that she was employed by the City.

A city welfare worker faces up to 6-1/2 years in the slammer after pleading guilty today to cooking up a $7 million food-stamp scam.

Vanee Sykes, 44, admitted pulling off the massive fraud with the help of three cronies, two of whom formerly worked with her at the Human Resources Administration.

Sykes, of Brooklyn, said she created phantom poor people using fake names and Social Security numbers, then had their food-stamp cards mailed to addresses where she and her accomplices could collect them.

"We then sold some of the cards and shared the proceeds," Sykes said in Manhattan federal court.

Co-conspirators Alice Bradford, Tori Jackson and Lois Johnson all pleaded guilty previously.

Their brazen scheme, which involved more than 1,000 phony food-stamp cases, lasted more than four years before an alert HRA worker caught wind of it and blew the whistle last year.

Department of Investigation Commissioner Rose Gill Hearn said the city would immediately move to have Sykes canned from her $59,047-a-year job.

"These convictions are a warning to city employees and others who use the public coffers as if they were a personal ATM: investigators will shut down the corruption and individuals will be held accountable," Hearn said.

Sykes declined to comment while leaving the courthouse, but her lawyer, Gary Maitland, noted that Sykes reaped only a fraction of the face value of the purloined public funds.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/city_worker_admits_masterminding_zNbnHCkpM9sPTi0G0LjPtM#ixzz1UvI53UHq

pissants

fox news? Seriously? Give me a minute.

RichieC

Overheal wrote: »

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,72137,00.html

Facepalm ascii

Overheal

pissants wrote: »

fox news? Seriously? Give me a minute.

RichieC wrote: »

Facepalm ascii

Ad Hominem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Here are some more: see how many you can dismiss based on whom is doing the reporting

http://www.google.com/search?q=immigration+fraud+food+stamps&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGLL_en___US426

pissants

I see absolutely nothing suggesting this is either organized or occuring on a systemic level, and instead a number of scare stories by various centre-right and right papers. Looking at SNAP directly fraud is listed at 1% down from 3.8% a decade ago. Seeing as illegal immigrants aren't eligible either, all that really needs to be done is to crack down on offices accepting fake social security numbers.

pissants

in fact...looking at more details, each $5 in SNAP generates $9 worth of 'economic activity' according to the department of agriculture. Huh.


Kind of like when the banks got bailed out and then turned around and snapped up 30yr treasury bonds @ 4%...except it's completely not and is instead the kind of thing people should be livid about instead of this.

Overheal

pissants wrote: »

I see absolutely nothing suggesting this is either organized or occuring on a systemic level, and instead a number of scare stories by various centre-right and right papers. Looking at SNAP directly fraud is listed at 1% down from 3.8% a decade ago. Seeing as illegal immigrants aren't eligible either, all that really needs to be done is to crack down on offices accepting fake social security numbers.

It's easy to say something doesn't exist when you ignore the reports that say it does. Especially when you ignore them because they come from "Centre-right and Right papers". We all are aware of the interests of the Right, but does that mean they are lying about it? Prove it. I love a good Fact-Check.

Can I see a link to this 1% in Fraud? And I presume that's only in the fraud that they have detected. I know how that works. Ever done retail? Your Shrink (ie. your Loss from shoplifting) can only be updated if you are aware of something leaving the store. An empty box on the shelf perhaps, or an inventory count. The problem with that is that until you see an empty box or do an inventory count, that number doesn't change. And how would SNAP count Inventory?

The other thing is that when these stamps leave, they get traded. 20, 40, 80 cents on the dollar. Does SNAP actively track who is actually handing the cashier a food stamp at the register? Does it bind a stamp to the person it's issued to? If it did, there surely wouldn't be a criminal market for selling these things for cash.

pissants

http://www.hungercoalition.org/food-stamp-myths

http://www.fraudwhistleblowersblog.com/food-for-fraud-%E2%80%93-is-a-lack-of-investigators-allowing-food-stamp-fraud-to-proliferate

They claim the decrease is due to introduction of the EBT. Both sources cite retailers/rebuyers as the source of fraud, though the second questions the veracity of this.


Nevertheless, do you want to put a number on the estimated loss due to food stamp fraud? Do you really think it is in any way comprehensible to what plutocracy is doing to the US? Was this really worth a thread, in comparsion to any of the massive economic issues that are in the news this week?

RichieC

Overheal wrote: »

Ad Hominem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Here are some more: see how many you can dismiss based on whom is doing the reporting

http://www.google.com/search?q=immigration+fraud+food+stamps&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGLL_en___US426

Of page one anyways, alipac "an immigration reduction-oriented political action committee.", some god awful blog and fox news. one examiner story citing a single case, some other right wing wordpress blog and another site citing one case.

not great all in all.

It's not Ad hominem to point out an obvious bias in a source. (correction, it is, but it's not fallacious)

Overheal

pissants wrote: »

Nevertheless, do you want to put a number on the estimated loss due to food stamp fraud?

Food stamps, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc.

Sure.

By the way your link to the 1% is completely sandwiched inside of an article that argues against the point you're making. And just supports what I was saying about Shrink. Cheers for that.

Even though an estimated one out of every eight people in the United States is currently receiving food stamp benefits as part of the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (“SNAP”) – the highest level of participation in the food stamp program since it began in 1939 – the last five years have seen a 20% drop in the number of investigations conducted by the USDA’s Food and Nutrition Services branch, which oversees SNAP. Indeed, while there are now 193,753 merchants nationwide that participate in the program, the total number of investigators employed by Food and Nutrition Services stands at just 40.

“It’s ridiculous,” Patrick Burns, with Taxpayers Against Fraud, a non-profit public interest group based in Washington, D.C., said of the few investigators assigned to probe food stamp fraud and trafficking by retailers. “Our ability to ferret out fraud is directly related to the number of ferrets we have, which is why we don’t ferret out much.”

One of the biggest concerns raised by the current system is the amount of “trafficking” in food stamps. Certain, unscrupulous, retailers will purchase food stamps from the beneficiaries of the SNAP program for 50 cents on the dollar. According to the government, the amount of food stamp trafficking stands at just 1%, or about $241 million, down from 3.8% ten years ago. According to the government, electronic monitoring through the digital tracking of redemptions via the debit cards used by food stamp recipients, have enabled the USDA to combat food stamp fraud even as the number of beneficiaries of the SNAP program has exploded in recent years.

Critics such as Burns, however, remain skeptical. He points out that it is difficult to imagine such a low rate of fraud in a program as sprawling as SNAP, with $50 billion in benefits paid out yearly to nearly 42 million Americans. “The first job of a government agency is to pass the laugh test and I’m not so sure a 1 percent leakage in the food stamp program does that,” Burns said. “I don’t believe they have a clue to what their fraud rate is. They’re just guessing.”

Was this really worth a thread, in comparsion to any of the massive economic issues that are in the news this week?

I'm not forcing you to post here, and you are welcome to start a thread on any topic you wish.

Overheal

RichieC wrote: »

Of page one anyways, alipac "an immigration reduction-oriented political action committee.", some god awful blog and fox news. one examiner story citing a single case, some other right wing wordpress blog and another site citing one case.

not great all in all.

It's not Ad hominem to point out an obvious bias in a source. (correction, it is, but it's not fallacious)

All it takes is another 45 seconds to click into the Alipac article, google the name of the man who pleaded guilty to $1.6 in fraud, to generate this other list corroborating sources:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Apolinare+Collado&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGLL_en___US426

Unless All of the Rightwing blogs are in cohoots fabricating the same story, I'm pretty sure this actually happened. I could do this for all of your other challenges to the validity of these stories, I imagine. But I encourage you to DIY.

RichieC

It's still only a single case, Overheal. it doesn't prove that it's endemic. which is what the right wing blogosphere want people to believe.

Overheal

RichieC wrote: »

It's still only a single case, Overheal. it doesn't prove that it's endemic. which is what the right wing blogosphere want people to believe.

And in true self-fashion you don't actually contribute anything you just nitpick. And miss.
You're right. It's just one case. Just $1.6 Million. We can spare $1.6 million right? $1.6M here, $1.6M there. What does it matter. Make it rain!

Well hang on, lets go back to that page and pick some other examples out


Story - Corroborating Source, via google *

Story - Corroborating Sources, via google

Story - Sources

Story - Sources

And another Story and yet more Corroborating sources.

At this point you are being ridiculous to dismiss the fraud occurring.

*

This case was investigated by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), Homeland Security Investigations (HSI), the Manatee County Sheriff’s Office, the Sarasota County Sheriff's Office, Florida Department of Law Enforcement, the Bradenton Police Department, United States Secret Service and the Department of Agriculture, Office of the Inspector General. It is being prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorney Simon Gaugush.

Everybody except any of the 40 investigators employed by Food and Nutrition Services, the organization that issues these funds in exchange for stamp redemption.

Manic Moran

To paraphrase someone, a million here and a million there, and soon you're talking real money.

So what if the article came from Fox News? Is it inaccurate? Fox editorialises a lot, but it is not known for making up court blotter stories.

The issue is the Social Security number. It is your life, it is used for anything from bank applications to your Army service number. Being able to fake them just shouldn't happen, and it is a serious point of failure for fraud and other criminality. One may not expect private agencies to be able to figure out if there's something fishy going on, but by George, State and Federal agencies should not be so easy to have the wool pulled over their eyes.

NTM

Dirk Gently

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

In Oregon and Washington (and I think California) the EBT cards are the food stamps and only work for certain products..

can you elaborate on what certain products means. Is it general foods with certain stuff excluded which is not deemed "basic" or is it certain brands of foods?

Overheal

Dirk Gently wrote: »

can you elaborate on what certain products means. Is it general foods with certain stuff excluded which is not deemed "basic" or is it certain brands of foods?

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/retailers/eligible.htm