electrical specification for new build

baldric

AM reaching first fix of electrics for my new house. ANy tips on what i should be specifying, what to look at out and make provision for in the future?

The obvious things I am thinking about:
downlighters what types low voltage or some other and why?
dimmer switches or not
alarm cable or wireless alarm?
computerised systems ? for what?
TV sockets? what sort of tv cable
HMDI ? cables
SOund systems?
Cat 5 or cat 6 and why for either and is there a difference in cost?
Future proof what should i make provision for
eg attaching a generator
making provision for batteries on wind production or alternative energy sources


I have a tight budget so cant go too far above basic but I dont want to forget anything or leave out anything that I might be able to do quite easily in the future by making a bit of planning right now

any help or ideas would be appreciated, cheers

Mike2006

Mod edit, post removed.

Info on the forum is for everyone. Thank you.

GerryP

Hi Mike2006,

I'm at the very same stage as baldric - coming up to first fix and same sort of questions - e.g. LED downlighters, low-level nightlight in corridor/stairs, cat5/6, wiring for alarms, external sockets/lighting, sounds systems (or possibly wireless sound system), feeds to the entrance gate, garden etc

Basically I want to try and wire in as much as possible now (with a limited budget) - i.e. basically do as much "plumbing" as possibly and add the bells and whistles later when funds available.

Any help or advice greatly appreciated!

GerryP.

altor

baldric wrote: »

alarm cable or wireless alarm?

Getting the wires in now for the alarm will save you money in the long run, wire free is going to cost more plus batteries will need to be changed every 2-3 years.
Cable for everything you want covered, windows, doors, shed, phone, external bell, internal bell. A few PIRS also, one on the landing and one in the hall. All back to the same location, not a hotpress. Dont forget a mains cable.

baldric

hi altor

thanks for that, with regard to doing the alarm...as I am short of dollars was going to put the wiring in myself at this time....what exactly do you recommend in terms of wiring...what grade of alarm cable and how many to each point, and when you say dont forget the mains...is that just for PIRS?

thanks

Baldric

Diggerdunne

6 core alarm cable to all window points.You have 2 cables at each window. You bring a cable to the window and then one onto the next window. You do that for each zone that you want covered.The last window on each zone will only have one cable as its the end of line. You need a cable to the front door as entry exit. A minimum 6 core for the outside bell. By mains cable he means you need power for the control panel. Normally ran straight from the fuse board and then into a spur and then into the control panel.Hope this helps

altor

baldric wrote: »

hi altor

thanks for that, with regard to doing the alarm...as I am short of dollars was going to put the wiring in myself at this time....what exactly do you recommend in terms of wiring...what grade of alarm cable and how many to each point, and when you say dont forget the mains...is that just for PIRS?

thanks

Baldric

Your welcome,

If doing the cabling yourself, I would run a 6 core cable to each window, door and anything else you are going to cover. Doing this will simplify any problems you may have in the future. The PIRs are powered off the control panel. Mains can be brought off the fuse board in 1.5 twin and earth or 2.5 off a socket both into a 3amp fuse spur. The control panel should be located away from the front door, under the stairs if possible. Keypad cable to the hall for the keypad, I would also put a 6 core cable in the bedroom for a second keypad or for a panic to be installed.

M cebee

Is that allowed then?

supplying a panel from a socket cct.

Stoner

Mike2006 wrote: »

PM Sent.

Mike there is no need to PM people directly on this forum, information is for sharing and it's also the whole point of a forum to begin with. You also can't advertise on boards for free, so please provide any useful information you have for everyone to see, add to and share.

OP there are other threads like this here that you could look into. Home AV and data are usually items that you can never really have enough of.

Dardania

baldric wrote: »

AM reaching first fix of electrics for my new house. ANy tips on what i should be specifying, what to look at out and make provision for in the future?

The obvious things I am thinking about:
downlighters what types low voltage or some other and why?

If you're going for downlights (well, really spotlights) and want to plan for the future, you need to think about LEDs. Here, I'd suggest going Low Voltage (12V) rather than mains (230V) as the thing with LEDs is that they need heat sinks for the LED chip itself, which adds to the size, but if each bulb needs it's own trafo as well, the bulb gets quite large, and more prone to failure.

For the future, when you have the cash to spend on LEDs, look at these:
http://www.ecat.lighting.philips.com/l/master-ledspot-lv/lp_cf_msledslv_eu_fa_ie_lp_prof_atg/cat/ie/?lpType=Lamps&userLanguage=en&catalogType=LP_PROF_ATG&userCountry=ie&proxybuster=D8CF4F21E944B0B6D20C8DF9C1668741.app106-drp4
Very good light output and natural light colour, however pricey at the moment

For now, I'd suggest using standard 12V incandescent spots, but use a higher quantity of 20W or 35W ones than a smaller quantity of 50Ws - that way the move to LEDs (which have a tighter beam angle than incandescent) will be more seamless.

To fire & soundproof your ceiling, look at using something like this:
http://www.simplyled.co.uk/Low-Voltage-Fixed-Fire-Rated-Downlight-MR16-Spring-Clip_AYZBQ.aspx?0 - just make sure that any potential LEDs can fit in it...

baldric wrote: »

dimmer switches or not

Personal preference really. I'd rather have a good number of sensible on/off circuits in a room than to dim all lights together - that way you can lights different areas as necessary to create the mood. Consider light on the vertical plane in addition to the horizontal - do you have any pictures or photos that would look good if lit? What about lamps - control them using 5A sockets from the light switch?

baldric wrote: »

alarm cable or wireless alarm?

The other lads answered the wiring here. My contribution would be to consider how you'll be notified of scrotes breaking in - use a digi dialler - ideally with GSM/GPRS rather than PSTN. Also, tie your fire detectors into another input on the digidialler, so you're texted if there's a fire activation - EI Electronics do very good mains operated detectors, and they should have a module to output to the intruder alarm digi dialler

baldric wrote: »

computerised systems ? for what?

Heating controls I guess you mean. How are you doing your space & water heating? Consider an external temp sensor to the boiler to let it weather compensate (and therefore operate more efficiently), a thermostat per heating zone (usually 2) and mount your heating controller beside your electric immersion controls, in a visible position in a landing for example. Thermostats should be as per the manufacturers recommended height - 1500mm is a good guide...

baldric wrote: »

TV sockets? what sort of tv cable

CT100, with a solid foam between the central core & the copper braiding rather than the honey comb stuff. 1 per TV point if doing terrestrial antenna or UPC, or 2 per TV if doing Sky / Satellite. Run 4 no. to a south facing external wall with good view of the sky for satellite

baldric wrote: »

HMDI ? cables

I reckon the best bet for the future is to run all multimedia over cat6, streaming from a NAS to DLNA TVs. You could consider a a projector location...

baldric wrote: »

SOund systems?

Good to do in the living area - speakers should be about a foot over your ear level when seated. For around the house it's your preference - I'd do it by running whatever speakers you want to a particular location in each room, and make sure there's a cat6 point there to use a wired roku type device...

baldric wrote: »

Cat 5 or cat 6 and why for either and is there a difference in cost?

cat6 as it's the newer, and i'd say there's no cost difference. wire plenty to wherever a PC, TV or phone might go, all froma central position that has power, and is the same central position where all your tv points are wired from, and where your eircom line comes in. Include a weather rated cat6 to the chimney in case you want fixed wireless internet, and wire to your consumer unit as well in case you do energy monitoring with your wind generator.

baldric wrote: »

Future proof what should i make provision for
eg attaching a generator

If you wish - leave a 20A double pole RCBO in the consumer unit for this, wired to a location where the genset won't be too noisy to enjoy when it's running. Be careful with health & safety when you get to this...

What about a shed or garage? They could also do with tv or cat6...?

baldric wrote: »

making provision for batteries on wind production or alternative energy sources

again, a double pole 20A RCBO for thus

baldric wrote: »

I have a tight budget so cant go too far above basic but I dont want to forget anything or leave out anything that I might be able to do quite easily in the future by making a bit of planning right now

any help or ideas would be appreciated, cheers

Are you going to have extract fans? I'd leave permanent lives to them in case you want to humidty control them in addition to light switching. Also, will you do heat recovery?

That's all I can think of now - hope it helps!

M cebee

EI do a relay base alright-just need to make sure it's a battery base

also i believe it's recommended to shut down heat recovery units in the event of fire -although i doubt many do it


you can do both jobs with one relay base

Dardania

M cebee wrote: »

EI do a relay base alright-just need to make sure it's a battery base

also i believe it's recommended to shut down heat recovery units in the event of fire -although i doubt many do it


you can do both jobs with one relay base

didn't think of that - you're right it should be done

OP: how are you achieving your renewable contribution to the house?

Stoner

I'd bring a data cable to my alarm panel too, I recently changed my intruder alarm panel to one with a built in web browser, It will not sent web alerts follow Dardania's advice here, but it can control my heating using an X10 device and I have access to the alarms for a huge amount of calendars etc, so i can text or web interact with my alarm to turn on the alarm or the heating, I can also turn on certain sockets that have an x10 device one them.

the x10 stuff is handy, not that expensive, however for a lot of lighting control units (cost effective ones) the "UK" method of wiring lights suits better, i.e a neutral, earth and live at the ceiling fitting with a switch wire looped up and down to the switch. If my house was wired like this (its not as I wired it ) I could turn on different lights very easily and cheaply with my phone, internet, remote control or when the alarm goes off.

I can also have some conditions on the panel to control the heating (basically the alarm condition or its pir and mag sensors can be used as control inputs) so if the heating is on and I leave the house and turn the alarm on full set, the heating will turn off, it will also turn off if i have all the windows open.

I tried to get it to open my electric gate but the range not enough.

Its only a small change but it might help things out. At the very least have deep back boxes at the light switches and ask the sparks to big a neutral to all the switches.

I'd like to stress the data and coax need here again, bring 3 or 4 data to your TV points (remember TVs, Xbox, PS3, Wii, Media PC, etc all need data the faster the better) The new Sat/Ter combo tuner box I have needs data too, however you can address this so long as there is at least one data point there (if budget is a concern), it's likely you'll have google TV in the future.

Stoner

WRT HDMI cables, for me the best option here would be to get an AV amp that can switch HDMI signals, that way you need only bring one HDMI cable from the amp top to the TV. You can chase in a trunking in to link your wall mounted TV to the amp location, it will need to be wide. The amp will connect to Sky and UPC boxes, plus the games units. also if you put in surround sound bring all the speaker cables to this point too.


such an amp would cost about 350 euro at the low end

Some Amps will have a lan switch built into them, so your one data point linking to the router could be shared with a few other devices by the amp

altor

M cebee wrote: »

Is that allowed then?

supplying a panel from a socket cct.

Once there is a 3 amp fused neon spur supplied. Only noticed your question now

Jnealon

M cebee wrote: »

Is that allowed then?

supplying a panel from a socket cct.

Don't think so, not good practice anyway. Usually a 6 amp mcb from the board on a seperate bar to the sockets

2011

Jnealon wrote: »

Don't think so, not good practice anyway. Usually a 6 amp mcb from the board on a seperate bar to the sockets

It is permitted.

However it is best on a circuit that is not protected by an RCD and better still would be a dedicated circuit.

M cebee

Not good practice anyhow

altor

Fitting a fused spur is like an extension off the socket, only it cant be plunged out. It is allowed to be done. Would it not be like just plugging the panel direct into the front of the socket on a plug ?

M cebee

it's the rcd that's the issue

Jnealon

Yes, connecting an alarm on to a circuit protected by an RCD is poor practice and not acceptable in most companies handbooks, apart from phonewatch that is

hayme

Our phonewatch alarm is connected off our socket in the hall, fuse board is in the back of the house in the utility. What is the issue with the RCD, is this dangerous ?

M cebee

no-not dangerous but it's not required
and could be a nuisance

there's mention in the wiring rules that essential services shouldn't be supplied from a common rcd-don't know if that means alarm panels

but it's a general principle anyhow with rcd's-avoid creating a nuisance

hayme

Thanks for the quick reply M cebee. Good to see it is not dangerous. What effect does the RCD have on a socket, why would it be a nuisance having the alarm connected to it?

M cebee

in the main -
the 30ma rcd prevents people using portable equipment receiving a dangerous shock

it's of no benefit on an alarm circuit and will obviously cause panel 'mains failure' if it trips or when rcd's are bring tested

hayme

Would not all circuts cause the alarm to show a mains fail if it trips or if there was a power fail?

decp

Did anyone put an electrical specification together? As in a plan, I am tendering to Timber frame suppliers and they want this done. So far I have scetched the points on the plans but am looking for a software package to complete it (or someone to do it for a small sum)...any help is apreciated!

meercat

decp wrote: »

Did anyone put an electrical specification together? As in a plan, I am tendering to Timber frame suppliers and they want this done. So far I have scetched the points on the plans but am looking for a software package to complete it (or someone to do it for a small sum)...any help is apreciated!

It shouldn't be a problem to do a spec yourself. Just tell them how many sockets light points phone tv etc you propose to quote for
No 2 specs will be the same

Stoner

do you want to use a CAD package to draw the symbols in? for a once off you'd be quicker with a clean set of drawings and marking them up and scanning them in.

If you want someone to CAD them up for you head over to the CAD forum they may help.


May sure you get a cost per point or schedule of rates for extras with your quotes in case you need to add in afterwards.

2011

decp wrote: »

Did anyone put an electrical specification together? As in a plan, I am tendering to Timber frame suppliers and they want this done. So far I have scetched the points on the plans but am looking for a software package to complete it (or someone to do it for a small sum)...any help is apreciated!

If you want something CADed up PM me.

decp

Thanks guys. I loaded the plans into Adobe Illustrator, made a legend for all the bits and pieces (I hope) and popped them into place. All done !