Giving false details on a fine

flag123

Just out of curiosity, if you give the Ticket Inspectors a fake address, however, give them your real phone number and name will they find out if you don't pay the fine?

again, out of curiosity :P

AlekSmart

Flag123:Just out of curiosity, if you give the Ticket Inspectors a fake address, however, give them your real phone number and name will they find out if you don't pay the fine?

again, out of curiosity

Hmmmm,curiosity supposedly killed the cat,however only one way YOU'LL find out......Go ahead...try it ?

Let's all know what you experience.

However I'd imagine that some here will balk at boards facilities being used to fine-tune Fare-Evasion tactics.

Equally somebody will probably happen by and encourage Flag123 to greater things on the grounds the Seanie Fitzpatrick/Bertie Aherne/Charlie McCreevy et al got away with it....;)

flag123

Suppose it comes down to them gaining info from your phone number which i'm not sure is possible?

AlekSmart

flag123 wrote: »

Suppose it comes down to them gaining info from your phone number which i'm not sure is possible?

By the sound of things,a Blackberry is yer only man these days

Victor

flag123 wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, if you give the Ticket Inspectors a fake address, however, give them your real phone number and name will they find out if you don't pay the fine?

again, out of curiosity :P

It could leave you in a world of pain. Remember you have to use that service again and are likely to be recognised. Just phone them (Freephone 1800 300 604) and pay the charge or do it on-line. http://payments.luas.ie/

BrianD

flag123 wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, if you give the Ticket Inspectors a fake address, however, give them your real phone number and name will they find out if you don't pay the fine?

again, out of curiosity :P

Why did you lie?

Anyway, was the phone number a land line or a mobile?

flag123

BrianD wrote: »

Why did you lie?

Anyway, was the phone number a land line or a mobile?

......

Well a mobile...by the way I'm actually not looking to dodge a fine (never been fined in my life), just wondering as I was discussing the situation a few days ago to my housemate

SteelyDanJalapeno

Sure!

goingnowhere

They have ways of verifying names and addresses, Tom's directory for one

Fine for false details is greater than not having a ticket...

Hilly Bill

Just tell them that you dont have a phone. The only way they can catch you after is if you use the same route again and they remember you.

howiya

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Just tell them that you dont have a phone. The only way they can catch you after is if you use the same route again and they remember you.

The same way they recognise all the persistent fair dodgers on the red line and don't issue fines to them? No, only people who look like they might pay the fine can be fined

BrianD

Quick Google of a mobile number and a name can often turn up a lot more info than you think!

If you weren't going to dodge the fine why give a false address?

dowlingm

Threads like these should go the way of ch****n d*****s. Maybe an FAQ sticky at the top with details of how you pay up. I know I've said this before but it's really depressing when you see thread after thread about the threats to public transport services people need for their jobs in some part because of the revenue loss from people like flag123's mate and the cost of employing RPU types.

Amazing the number of people who would be okay with fare evading / lying to inspectors but who would probably look down their nose at some unfortunate hauled out of Tescos by the Guards for stealing milk for their children because the dinner money went to the bank for the negative equity mortgage. It's also amazing how many people still don't get that even minor offences will bar the way to emigration to US/Aus/Canada if the job market doesn't pick up.

Obviously there are issues where people have been given a rough go by staff who don't know their own bylaws about inoperative ticket machines etc. but this is partly because the culture is sufficiently pervasive that the default assumption is evasion.

flag123 - tell your mate if he can't afford transit fare he should consider whether he can afford to maintain a cellphone.

flag123

howiya wrote: »

The same way they recognise all the persistent fair dodgers on the red line and don't issue fines to them? No, only people who look like they might pay the fine can be fined

I have actually notice this happen a few times.

Most recent example i seen was a ticket inspector asking people for tickets naturally enough, then come to these two guys in mid 20s, in tracksuits and looked drunk to me..Inspector asked "tickets, please" one responded by saying " i know your supervisor.....". After they chatted for a minute he didn't asked them again for a ticket and said have a nice day. Now i didn't see them flashing any sort source to show them they were'nt dodging the fare but i noticed down a few seats a granny was fined for not having her pass even though she was clearly an OAP.

mikemac

howiya wrote: »

The same way they recognise all the persistent fair dodgers on the red line and don't issue fines to them? No, only people who look like they might pay the fine can be fined

Always the way

The quiet person coming home from work gets fined, fair enough

The aggressive skanger in their tracksuit is put off the Luas and they get the next one, no fine
Or else the inspector doesn't even put them off, easier to fine the people who will not be aggressive

bigar

Just wondering: how would they know that you you give them false details?

mikemac

Imagine if there was an actual address called 123 Fake St and you got everybody's fines through your letterbox

Losty Dublin

bigar wrote: »

Just wondering: how would they know that you you give them false details?

Some inspectors will ring the contact phone number that you give them; others will look for some proof of ID while others again will refer to Thom's Directory. When they land you with a ticket, they know the repercussions of same so they will take care in ensuring that it's issued to the right person at the right address and if possible they will check their facts.

raining2011

I get the luas everyday to and from work, and always see people being caught. They (well any inspectors I've seen) ask for proof of ID etc to make sure you don't give false details...You could always just buy your ticket before hand and not get fined!

OurLadyofKnock

flag123 wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, if you give the Ticket Inspectors a fake address, however, give them your real phone number and name will they find out if you don't pay the fine?

again, out of curiosity :P

You sould not even give them your real details. This is not a CIE police state.

Gileadi

When being given a fine could you just ignore the IE/LUAS staff and keep walking out the station?

I mean they wouldn't be allowed to physically restrain you (afaik only the guards can) and if they tried they would probably be in more bother than you?

Losty Dublin

Gileadi wrote: »

When being given a fine could you just ignore the IE/LUAS staff and keep walking out the station?

I mean they wouldn't be allowed to physically restrain you (afaik only the guards can) and if they tried they would probably be in more bother than you?

You can try it if you want but don't be shocked if they did grab and held onto you until they get details from you; citizen's arrest concept would apply here.

OurLadyofKnock

Losty Dublin wrote: »

You can try it if you want but don't be shocked if they did grab and held onto you until they get details from you; citizen's arrest concept would apply here.

If any CIE staff lays a hand on you make sure to hit them with a massive assult charge and you will be living in their Partnership Palace within a couple of years.

If you are a female claim sexual assualt too. See how fast the "citizens arrest" lasts them.

jill_valentine

They'll ask you for ID to verify. If you say you don't have ID, and look aggressive enough, they'll just wander on to somebody who looks a bit softer. I think we've all seen it by now.

But no, I don't know of any way they can check your details. It essentially comes down to whether or not you've got the gall to do it. Enough people would sooner pay the fine to make it worth their while, myself included.

You sould not even give them your real details. This is not a CIE police state.

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

If any CIE staff lays a hand on you make sure to hit them with a massive assult charge and you will be living in their Partnership Palace within a couple of years.

If you are a female claim sexual assualt too. See how fast the "citizens arrest" lasts them.

:rolleyes:

Dudes are just doing their jobs. If you're jumping on the Luas without a ticket, then the problem is you - you're in the wrong, and you got caught, that's the chance you took. Thems the breaks.

The hi viz dudes can't lay a hand on you, but those rather large security chaps with the stabvests are perfectly within their rights to exercise reasonable measures for the safety and comfort of other passengers if you start acting the twat.

Amtmann

Anyone can perform a citizen's arrest, including restraint if needs be until the arrival of a Guard.

However, if a private citizen arrests you and he or she is in the wrong (i.e., if you are innocent of the alleged offence), then you can sue them for assault and false imprisonment. This is the standard practice of store detectives and retail security officers. Exactly the same principle applies to public transport staff.

So, unless the ticket inspector is 100% certain that you broke the rules, he won't lay a finger on you. And if he does and he is wrong, then you stand to get €10,000 euro from his company in court.

Hilly Bill

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

If any CIE staff lays a hand on you make sure to hit them with a massive assult charge and you will be living in their Partnership Palace within a couple of years.

If you are a female claim sexual assualt too. See how fast the "citizens arrest" lasts them.

There are too many false calls of assault being made in this country as it is in my opinion and takes away from the genuine calls and shouldnt be encouraged .

Victor

Authorised officers (not the cleaner) may arrest you and hand you over to the Garda is they suspect and offence.

teamrocket

I got fined on the luas once, and i had the ticket with me just couldn be found at the time and my appeal didn work either!

The inspector approached me asked for my ticket which i couldn find in my bag, he then ordered me off at the next stop, i did so and here he asked for i.d but i had none and then he said that hed have to check my details with garda records when he had retrieved them. I proceeded to honestly give my details as i amnt a frequent luas user and as i told him my ticket situation he told me to try appeal my fine. So I give him my address and say Co.Leitrim and he replies ok 'and wheres that in?' i said 'Leitrim' to which he then says 'what county?'
Now he wasn Irish so i understand how he might not know places to well but it is a disgrace for a comuter and transport worker to be employed without been directed to atleast know the names of the counties in Ireland! Theres only 32 for god sake!!!!!

murphaph

teamrocket wrote: »

I got fined on the luas once, and i had the ticket with me just couldn be found at the time and my appeal didn work either!

Now he wasn Irish so i understand how he might not know places to well but it is a disgrace for a comuter and transport worker to be employed without been directed to atleast know the names of the counties in Ireland! Theres only 32 for god sake!!!!!

OT but related and reminds me of a funny incident with a Garda that stopped my on one of my vintage bikes with an old Leitrim plate (pre-86). He said (after realising that I'm Irish and lived in Dublin at the time) that "You shouldn't be riding around on foreign plates, you have 24 hours to VRT this bike" lol. What a muppet. A Garda who couldn't recognise an Irish number plate.

AlekSmart

Was it a Zundapp ?

flag123

Hmmm...

Seeing that the fine is 45 euro and says it should be paid within 2 weeks, if you are a day or two more than the given two weeks will the fine be raised and action taking against you?

-Chris-

flag123 wrote: »

Hmmm...

Seeing that the fine is 45 euro and says it should be paid within 2 weeks, if you are a day or two more than the given two weeks will the fine be raised and action taking against you?

Hmmmm...

The thread was started 13 days ago. Whatever you're planning to do, you'd better do it quickly!

Mister Dread

They can do very little if a person does not agree to cooperate bar call the Gardaí. They most certainly can't detain you if you just decide to walk away. They can request ID, phone numbers and all that but you don't have to supply them. You have a legal obligation to give your name and address and that is it.

From wikipedia (and true)

Any person can arrest someone who they have reasonable cause is in the act of committing or has committed an "arrestable" offence, that is one punishable by more than 5 years in prison.[13] The arrest can only be effected if the arrestor has reasonable cause that the person will attempt to avoid apprehension by Gardaí and the arrestor delivers the person to Garda custody as soon as is practicable.

schemingbohemia

flag123 wrote: »

Hmmm...

Seeing that the fine is 45 euro and says it should be paid within 2 weeks, if you are a day or two more than the given two weeks will the fine be raised and action taking against you?

Is that the hypothetical letter for the hypothetical false details? Seems to me like we're not in Kansas anymore......

goingnowhere

The inspectors have the legal right to detain you and in some cases arrest you

For Dublin Bus

ByeLaw wrote:

c) Where any such person refuses or fails to comply with a request under paragraph (a) or (b) of this Bye-Law or following such request such person gives a name and address which the authorised person has reasonable grounds for believing is false or misleading, such person may be detained by the authorised person until the arrival of a member of the Garda Síochána.

For Irish Rail and Luas

RailSafetyAct2005 wrote:

22A.—(1) If an authorised officer reasonably suspects that a person—

(a) is contravening or has contravened or is failing or has failed to comply with a provision of bye-laws made under section 22 of this Act which is stated in the bye-laws to be a penal provision,

(b) is committing or has committed an offence under section 59(1) of this Act, section 25 of the Transport (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1971 , or section 118 or 132 of the Railway Safety Act 2005,

(c) is assaulting or has assaulted or is causing or has caused deliberate harm to another on railway property,

(d) is causing or has caused wanton or deliberate damage to railway property,

(e) is obstructing or has obstructed or is impeding or has impeded an authorised officer in the exercise of his or her duties under this section or any provision of bye-laws made under section 22 of this Act which is stated in the bye-laws to be a penal provision,

(f) on any railway property is intoxicated or is committing or has committed an offence under section 15 of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977 , or

(g) if requested by an authorised officer to cease such contravention or action or to so comply, fails to comply with the request,

he or she may—

(i) using such reasonable force as the circumstances require, remove or escort the person from the railway property or any part of it,

(ii) in circumstances where the officer considers it to be justified, arrest the person without warrant, or

(iii) require the person to give his or her name and address and, if the person fails or refuses to do so or gives a name that the authorised officer reasonably suspects is false or misleading may arrest that person without warrant,

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/act/pub/0031/print.html#sec129