Beth Phoenix

cena

Just wonder would ye like too see Beth face the lads in wrestling. She's got the build for unlike the other divas. She seems too be wasted with the wwe divas.

rovert

cena wrote: »

Just wonder would ye like too see Beth face the lads in wrestling. She's got the build for unlike the other divas. She seems too be wasted with the wwe divas.

Her "build" was having a very hard time staying in her top on Raw this week.

^ Helpful response.

cena

rovert wrote: »

Her "build" was having a very hard time staying in her top on Raw this week.

^ Helpful response.

How was that help?

grames_bond

cena wrote: »

How was that help?

rovert

Seriously probably just Nattie at this stage as Kong's career is up the air.

Gail and Beth had their match on Superstars which was kind of disappointment for some from a story telling POV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GZ3UPSm7eY

Outside of WWE: Hamada, Mercedes Martinez, MsChif, Cheerleader Melissa, Sara Del Ray etc.

cena

grames_bond wrote: »

You see I thought I wrote some thing wrong. It won't even let me edit it. I can only reply. If I try too edit i'v too re log back in.

Horsebox9000

NOt sure if that Huricanranna was a botch or not but was covered very well

cena

Horsebox9000 wrote: »

NOt sure if that Huricanranna was a botch or not but was covered very well

It was covered very well alright. wasn't a bad match

rovert

cena wrote: »

It was covered very well alright. wasn't a bad match

It wasnt covered. Beth clearly held on to the top rope to block it.

Lord TSC

I wouldn't mind facing her in a match.

And by match, I mean my bed.

And by facing...

cena

rovert wrote: »

It wasnt covered. Beth clearly held on to the top rope to block it.

Ya I ssen her holding on to the ropes. But it looked like the gails move went wrong too those not looking at the match well.

DM_7

rovert wrote: »

Her "build" was having a very hard time staying in her top on Raw this week.

^ Helpful response.

No wonder Punks always smiling.

RE the actual topic. No I don't think she needs to fight the men. WWE could easily have a proper Diva's division if they wanted too.

rossie1977

no she shouldn't be wrestling men, wouldn't be believable at all that beth could beat any male on wwes roster not even evan bourne, beth is about the same size as a female friend of mine having stood next to her (height and weight) even kong isn't that "big", certainly not as big as they billed her in tna....6'1 280 my ass

the only female that looks like she could beat up 90% of the male roster is isis the amazon but she is a horrible worker so not going to see that either

thebostoncrab

If Sara Del Ray can beat Claudio Castagnoli in an important match and make it belivable then Beth Phoenix can easily take on half the roster.

gnfnrhead

rossie1977 wrote: »

no she shouldn't be wrestling men, wouldn't be believable at all that beth could beat any male on wwes roster not even evan bourne, beth is about the same size as a female friend of mine having stood next to her (height and weight) even kong isn't that "big", certainly not as big as they billed her in tna....6'1 280 my ass

the only female that looks like she could beat up 90% of the male roster is isis the amazon but she is a horrible worker so not going to see that either

I for one would not fancy having to face Sara Del Rey. I'd gladly face pretty much any other woman in North America (I wouldnt be too quick to face of few of the girls from Japan either) including Beth. Del Rey could legit kick my ass if she wanted to.

In the past WWE have shown Beth to be capable of hanging with the guys. She's competed in the Royal Rumble and I believe eliminated Khali, a former World champion. So long as she isnt against the likes of John Cena who would show her up size wise, I dont see any problem with her facing the guys, especially not if it's against the likes of Bourne and Ryder. At worst, it gives her something different to do.

rossie1977

thebostoncrab wrote: »

If Sara Del Ray can beat Claudio Castagnoli in an important match and make it belivable then Beth Phoenix can easily take on half the roster.

a 10 stone female pinning and beating a 15 stone male is not believable, it wouldn't happen in mma, wouldn't happen in boxing, i don't care how tough the woman is, dana white would never book cyborg to take on any his 150lb male fighters and she is one if not toughest woman on the planet

when wwe were pushing chyna to the moon and having her beating men i thought it was stupid too

chopperbyrne

Beth occasionally attacking a guy from behind or delivering a finisher during a mass beatdown is one thing, but regularly competing with and beating the guys is just not believable regardless of how much bigger and better she is than the other women.

Her elimination of Khali was done in a way that made it look more intelligent than powerful.

Was it Punk who then gave her a GTS and eliminated her?

DM_7

gnfnrhead wrote: »

In the past WWE have shown Beth to be capable of hanging with the guys. She's competed in the Royal Rumble and I believe eliminated Khali, a former World champion.

Did you ever see that? It really wasn't impressive,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_1hul-vDuc

. Punk then hit her with a GTS which was cool.

Eire-Dearg

LOL @ the top comment on that video.

Bounty Hunter

Beth's great and its great to ser getting pushed as it will be if Nattie gets pushed alongside her, however I really dont expect the WWE to ever use their womens division as they could and Gail Kim is a case and point there.

Should they go up againt the men, no. However as a one of the type of thing with Beth and Khali for example can be good to really emphasise what she is capable of and show that she is more than just a "Diva".

o and shes hot

rovert

thebostoncrab wrote: »

If Sara Del Ray can beat Claudio Castagnoli in an important match and make it belivable then Beth Phoenix can easily take on half the roster.

Chikara is a niche promotion and a universe onto itself

thebostoncrab

rossie1977 wrote: »

a 10 stone female pinning and beating a 15 stone male is not believable, it wouldn't happen in mma, wouldn't happen in boxing, i don't care how tough the woman is, dana white would never book cyborg to take on any his 150lb male fighters and she is one if not toughest woman on the planet

when wwe were pushing chyna to the moon and having her beating men i thought it was stupid too

Alot of things in wrestling wouldn't happen in mma so I fail to see why Dana White not booking something similar is a fair point.

You can make anything in wrestling believable with clever booking and how Del Ray has been handled is a great example. Yes Chikara is as niche as they come but it doesn't take away from the reports that everyone at the show got into the win and belived it. All it takes is for a wrestler like Phoenix to use her head to find a males weakness and focus in on it for the victory.

Rjd2

Not sure that anyone could ever believe that she could compete with the men once she has finished jobbing to Kelly Kelly.

Lord TSC

rossie1977 wrote: »

a 10 stone female pinning and beating a 15 stone male is not believable, it wouldn't happen in mma, wouldn't happen in boxing, i don't care how tough the woman is, dana white would never book cyborg to take on any his 150lb male fighters and she is one if not toughest woman on the planet

when wwe were pushing chyna to the moon and having her beating men i thought it was stupid too

I don't get this arguement. Plenty of stuff happens in WWE that wouldn't happen in the real world.

Case and point, does anyone believe Rey Mysterio, a beat up, broken down 40 year old, would have any chance of beating far bigger, fitter guys like Punk or Del Rio? You suspend your disbelief when watching wrestling; yeah, it wouldn't be realistic, but with a good story, match or angle, you forget that...

JP Liz V1

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Beth occasionally attacking a guy from behind or delivering a finisher during a mass beatdown is one thing, but regularly competing with and beating the guys is just not believable regardless of how much bigger and better she is than the other women.

Her elimination of Khali was done in a way that made it look more intelligent than powerful.

Was it Punk who then gave her a GTS and eliminated her?

Yes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOhB2loJEC8

Payback I guess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm2H59dO3Zo

I loved the days of the mixed tag matches

rossie1977

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Case and point, does anyone believe Rey Mysterio, a beat up, broken down 40 year old, would have any chance of beating far bigger, fitter guys like Punk or Del Rio? You suspend your disbelief when watching wrestling; yeah, it wouldn't be realistic, but with a good story, match or angle, you forget that...

ok first up rey is mid 30s only a year or two older than punk and del rio

reys built up that believability over 15 years wrestling men on network tv, he started in his own weight category and moved up, in wwe it was the same, then he wrestled bigger guys like eddie, jericho and angle, his style of offense, workrate and speed is something none of the american women can even come close too, there is still a ton of complaints on the net about rey beating guys like kane etc when it happens so you can just imagine the outrage if a woman was beating guys regularly

rovert

Yeah Rey is this ingenious quick, evasive dude while Beth is a 5' 6'' muscle chick (a good one mind).

jaykhunter

the WWF crowd (not all, mind you) accepted Chyna beating men and holding the IC belt. It terrifyed me to think that she'd be WWF Champion one day, even for a short stint. They'd really have to push her strong but in terms of male wrestling, she's fairly pants; i doubt she could hang with the guys; they'd all have to protect her and put her over strong, much like Chyna was over a decade ago. tbf beth phoenix hasn't been pushed as hard as chyna in that sense (she got stuck in with the lads in the attitude era, as a lot of other women did); i can't see it sticking. But i'd definitely give it a go.

Maybe the female-in-a-male-division would be more suited to Awesome Kong, who's a much bigger woman and her 'limits' haven't been set yet.

gnfnrhead

Rey Mysterio will be 37 this year, weights very little compared to the majority of the roster and most importantly, has two very publicised bad knees. If he's able to be one of the top guys, I dont see why someone like Beth cant hang with the lower mid card guys.

rovert

jaykhunter wrote: »

the WWF crowd (not all, mind you) accepted Chyna beating men and holding the IC belt.

Wasnt really pushed as a woman she was HHH's bodyguard then wrestled men and then was relegated to wrestling women. Beth's situation is different.

Just look at Chyna's music:

Oh, don't treat me like a woman
Don't treat me like a man
Don't treat me like you know me
Just treat me for who and what I am

jaykhunter wrote: »

Maybe the female-in-a-male-division would be more suited to Awesome Kong, who's a much bigger woman and her 'limits' haven't been set yet.

TNA were going that direction but stop when it hit home how short Kia is. Kurt Angle dwarfed her.

jaykhunter

It sounds like you don't agree with me but you are, lol. I've no idea what those lyrics mean

Kia (blasting kayfabe lol) can't be more than 2 inches shorter than Kurt. Kurt trimmed down a fair whack; surely Kong'd be at least bigger if not more?

GTR63

I'd hate another Chyna to happen not being sexist but I just wouldn't want to see her pushed at the expense of others. Chyna pinned Jericho, Jarrett & many others that did them no favours.

rovert

jaykhunter wrote: »

Kia (blasting kayfabe lol) can't be more than 2 inches shorter than Kurt. Kurt trimmed down a fair whack; surely Kong'd be at least bigger if not more?

Ok dwarfed her is wrong. But having Kong side by side with men hurt her monster aura.

jaykhunter wrote: »

It sounds like you don't agree with me but you are, lol. I've no idea what those lyrics mean

Chyna was a category onto herself.

GTR63 wrote: »

I'd hate another Chyna to happen not being sexist but I just wouldn't want to see her pushed at the expense of others. Chyna pinned Jericho, Jarrett & many others that did them no favours.

And the crowd turned on her during the Chris Jericho feud.

jaykhunter

Kong could've started with X-Division guys. I'm sure she'd still look impressive beside the Bucks...

Anyway what we garner from Chyna is that you have to come in and be booked as a threat to males, a class above females to be regarded as such. Beth Phoenix has been languishing for a while; seems like a very uphill struggle but it is worth a go. Worst thing that can happen is she goes back to the women's division.

rovert

jaykhunter wrote: »

Kong could've started with X-Division guys. I'm sure she'd still look impressive beside the Bucks...

Anyway what we garner from Chyna is that you have to come in and be booked as a threat to males, a class above females to be regarded as such. Beth Phoenix has been languishing for a while; seems like a very uphill struggle but it is worth a go. Worst thing that can happen is she goes back to the women's division.

Chyna had to be heavily carried by experienced workers like Jericho, Jarrett and Holly. In the middle of her push as IC champ the crowd turned on her as it was so transparent.

There is inherent awkwardness between men and women. They are 70% weaker then, men are naturally uneasy hitting women full force, the sexual and domestic violence vibes too.

Then there is the whole PG thing. Additionally in TNA at least the network bans male on female violence.

rossie1977

i think wwe should just bring back in isis and end the debate about men wrestling women isis could take on punk, cena and orton all at once

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbV2QUkywe0

jaykhunter

She looks really impressive, but I think her being fired over some stupid picture scandal was a front to release her because she's like a female khali in the ring!

I imagine if/when she gets better WWE would retry her again. Surely there's money in at least 1 run with her dominating!

rovert

jaykhunter wrote: »

I imagine if/when she gets better WWE would retry her again.

I doubt it she has a really bad attitude look her twitter feed I never seen a wrestler having as little clue about handling herself professionally & not coming across as mental eejit as her. I remember listening to one or two of her post WWE interviews facepalming at her giving the wrong answer every answer and burying herself further.

Moving on

Sara Del Ray should have been born as a man given that she wrestlers like a high level male indy worker rather than a female.

I remember calling her the most handsome women's wrestler currently on other forums :pac:

Emaciated Daizee Haze pinning men in Chikara with a german suplex on the other hand is/was at the dirt worse level of business exposing.

jaykhunter

If you were going to put a woman over a man, what finisher would you give her? (like a move that could get over and do to many men, not just a low blow and roll up etc)

rovert

jaykhunter wrote: »

If you were going to put a woman over a man, what finisher would you give her? (like a move that could get over and do to many men, not just a low blow and roll up etc)

Nagging or the film Eat Pray Love

Lord TSC

jaykhunter wrote: »

If you were going to put a woman over a man, what finisher would you give her? (like a move that could get over and do to many men, not just a low blow and roll up etc)

Her size, gimmick and ability would mean a chokeslam would likely be the best finisher...

gnfnrhead

rovert wrote: »

Emaciated Daizee Haze pinning men in Chikara with a german suplex on the other hand is/was at the dirt worse level of business exposing.

Daizee mostly pinned the smaller guys or jobbers. Pinning Suger Dunkerton or Ice Cream Jr. isnt really a big deal. Del Rey was the one who got the wins against the more established people. Both of them were booked exceptionally well anyway. Whenever someone went to hit Daizee she would cower away which made the opponent hold off and allowed Del Rey to blindside him.

paddyismaddy

i'd go up against and lie down for beth anytime