are uk and irish orthos basically the same?

dublinannie

I have been checking some orthos and one that I liked said she is an ortho, I have been to her several times re normal dentistry and didn't know she was an ortho. Anyway, she spoke to me about braces and I couldnt find her on the Irish Ortho list, but I found her on the uk one.

• MA, B.Dent.Sc., Dip. Clin. Dent. (T.C.D)
• Cert. in Implant Dentistry, University of Warwick
• MSc. Orthodontics University of Warwick (Distinction)
• Appointed as Tutor of MSc. Orthodontics at University of Warwick

can any of the dentists/orthos tell me if thats an equal qualification to the Irish ones for orthos. I liked how she explained things, went into great detail and spent a huge amount of time going through it all with me.

The main thing though, is if the qualifications don't mean shes fully qualified in orthos, I won't be going to her for braces.
thanks for any help

btkm8unsl0w5r4

OK this is a complex one. There are a number of clinics that have this Warwick university qualification in their "Orthodontic" department however this course is not a specialist qualification. From the warick website.

"The GDC at this time are not registering any additional qualifications from any educational establishments and this qualification does not enable holders to join the specialist list. The University is committed however to being at the forefront of professional educational development and will react positively to any changes which occur"

Basically these MSc are usually part time, so you continue you have your practice and study at night, by correspondence and travel a few time a year over to have tests. There are 3-4 year full time courses in the UK, US and Ireland that allow you to be called a specialist orthodontist, this is not one of them. For instance a orthodontist trained in the UK can register here and v.v.A specialist will usually have at least three years full time training. They will usually limit their practice to one specific area. For instance an orthodontist will not usually do fillings or remove teeth.

Can dentists with this qualification carry out orthodontics....yes

Are they orthodontists....no


There is a need from some proper regulation in this area, its very confusing for people.

Oral Surgeon

The Irish Dental Council have 2 specialist lists; Oral Surgery and Orthodontics, there should be more but we'll leave that debate to another day...

In order to get on these lists- you must have 3 years full time masters or doctorate training in that specialty or part time equivalent, usually requiring research thesis and comprehensive logbook. Dublin, Cork and maybe Belfast provide this training and also a lot of UK universities... Some universities (mostly UK based) also provide a distance learning or part time course in different specialties, most do not get you on the specialist register as the training is not of the same intensity or level of the 3year full time masters/ doctorate courses....

Sorry op, but you're either SWAT or you're not and if you're not on this list http://www.dentalcouncil.ie/specialistregisters.php you may be a wonderful dentist, but not a specialist orthodontist.

While all dentists are trained to treat a range of problems in the mouth, there comes a point where treatment is best treated by a specialist in that particular area....

Good luck,
OS

ballsymchugh

open to correction, but the MSc in ortho means that she can call herself a dentist with a special interest in ortho. she can limit her practice to ortho, but to call herself an orthodontist, she should have M.Orth., or D.Orth. after her name.

however, she may just not have applied to be on the irish orthodontic society list.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

ballsymchugh wrote: »

open to correction, but the MSc in ortho means that she can call herself a dentist with a special interest in ortho. she can limit her practice to ortho, but to call herself an orthodontist, she should have M.Orth., or D.Orth. after her name.

however, she may just not have applied to be on the irish orthodontic society list.

Special Interests are no longer allowed. Practice limited to is allowed.

dublinannie

Thank you so much for the replies. I was on the brink of going ahead with it.

She showed me lots of pics of her work on the computer, said she always discusses the plan with her previous teacher, tutor, professor, (can't remember what words she used) I thought it slightly odd as to why she would be needing to do that.

I actually had a look at the plaque on the door earlier, nowhere does it mention the ortho part.

Regards not registering with the irish orthodontic place, that again I find odd as she has been practicing here for a long time in the same practice, so it makes me wonder, why she hasn't registered.

Again thanks for the help, off I go again on the search for a good ortho!

ballsymchugh

Angelique Lazy Lineman wrote: »

Special Interests are no longer allowed. Practice limited to is allowed.

i'd love to know how well that's being policed. the local 'endodontist' in a certain part of the country is MSc. bit of a difference when the MSc can be done in a year at the eastman, while their specialist program takes 3 years.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Not very well policed. A lot of dentists are getting quite loose with the titles they claim. Its not the dentists fault really, the dental council need to bring in some proper rules and registers so the public know where they stand.

kkth0360

ballsymchugh wrote: »

open to correction, but the MSc in ortho means that she can call herself a dentist with a special interest in ortho. she can limit her practice to ortho, but to call herself an orthodontist, she should have M.Orth., or D.Orth. after her name.

however, she may just not have applied to be on the irish orthodontic society list.

This is not exactly true. To register as a Specialist a dentist must have successfully completed a full-time training programme of at least 3 years' duration (or part-time equivalent). The programme must be recognised by the Dental Council of Ireland as being of a suitable standard to train participants to specialist level. Usually these programmes lead to a Masters or Doctorate, but holding a MSc or similar does not, in itself, denote specialist training. A distance learning-type MSc, such as that offered by Warwick for example, does not come anywhere near to the level of training required to become a specialist orthodontist, and is not recognised by either the Irish or UK Dental Councils for specialist training.

Incidentally, MOrth or DOrth are not, in themselves, required for specialist registration either, as people who undertake specialist training in the US would not usually sit these exams. Anyone trained in a UK specialist orthodontic programme would hold MOrth though, as success at MOrth is required by the General Dental Council in the UK as evidence of successful completion of specialist training.

So it can actually be very difficult for patients to figure out whether someone is a specialist or not by looking at the letters after their name (and, unfortunately, some dentists will try to infer or hint at a level of training and expertise that they may not in fact possess, by listing all sorts of "qualifications" or "extensive post-graduate training" on their websites or advertising). The only way to know whether someone is a properly trained and qualified specialist in orthodontics (or oral surgery) is, as mentioned above, to check the Specialist register on the Dental Council's website, which is kept regularly updated and lists all currently registered specialists. Anyone who is not on the orthodontic specialist register is not an orthodontist.

OP, if your dentist is not on this specialist list but told you specifically (as you mentioned in your post) that she is an orthodontist, then you could consider making a complaint to the dental council. As mentioned above, enforcement of the relevant laws and regulations in this country is far less rigorous than elsewhere (such as the UK) with the result that this sort of confusion is becoming widespread here and it is increasingly difficult for patients to figure out who is best qualified to carry out their treatment. The Dental Council can only take action when it receives a complaint from a member of the public, so patients have an important role to play in ensuring that the dental profession is properly regulated and policed.

day dreamer

OP it is very confusing to know who is a specialist and who is not.

Specialists will do 3 years full time training. At the moment only orthodontists and oral surgeons can register with the Dental Council. There are many other specialities but only these can register at the moment. If your dentist only did a course in Warwick University then they cannot be a specialist or call themselves an orthodontist and that is why they are not on the list.

As has been mentioned you have a role in ensuring that dentists are regulated properly and can contact the dental coulcil directly if you have any concerns.

ballsymchugh

kkth0360 wrote: »

This is not exactly true. To register as a Specialist a dentist must have successfully completed a full-time training programme of at least 3 years' duration (or part-time equivalent). The programme must be recognised by the Dental Council of Ireland as being of a suitable standard to train participants to specialist level. Usually these programmes lead to a Masters or Doctorate, but holding a MSc or similar does not, in itself, denote specialist training. A distance learning-type MSc, such as that offered by Warwick for example, does not come anywhere near to the level of training required to become a specialist orthodontist, and is not recognised by either the Irish or UK Dental Councils for specialist training.

Incidentally, MOrth or DOrth are not, in themselves, required for specialist registration either, as people who undertake specialist training in the US would not usually sit these exams. Anyone trained in a UK specialist orthodontic programme would hold MOrth though, as success at MOrth is required by the General Dental Council in the UK as evidence of successful completion of specialist training.

So it can actually be very difficult for patients to figure out whether someone is a specialist or not by looking at the letters after their name (and, unfortunately, some dentists will try to infer or hint at a level of training and expertise that they may not in fact possess, by listing all sorts of "qualifications" or "extensive post-graduate training" on their websites or advertising). The only way to know whether someone is a properly trained and qualified specialist in orthodontics (or oral surgery) is, as mentioned above, to check the Specialist register on the Dental Council's website, which is kept regularly updated and lists all currently registered specialists. Anyone who is not on the orthodontic specialist register is not an orthodontist.

OP, if your dentist is not on this specialist list but told you specifically (as you mentioned in your post) that she is an orthodontist, then you could consider making a complaint to the dental council. As mentioned above, enforcement of the relevant laws and regulations in this country is far less rigorous than elsewhere (such as the UK) with the result that this sort of confusion is becoming widespread here and it is increasingly difficult for patients to figure out who is best qualified to carry out their treatment. The Dental Council can only take action when it receives a complaint from a member of the public, so patients have an important role to play in ensuring that the dental profession is properly regulated and policed.

there was a guy in my class who, when bullsh!tting his way through an answer and inevitably given the right answer by a demonstrator, would always say something along the lines of "yeah that's what i meant to say".

funnily enough, he's now an orthodontist!