Back up systems we dont see on commercial airplanes?

silverharp

it might be a bit out there, but the ideas must have been thought about but dismissed due to cost etc. but why dont airplanes have a reserve fuel tank say 1 hrs fuel? I know planes have a reserve but planes have crashed because of faulty readings wrt to fuel loading etc. Another safety feature could be a reserve tail jet engine with independant controls. Again there have been any number of crashes where a reserve engine might just have been enough to allow planes to land.
Any others?

Stovepipe

Pilots are supposed to calculate an emergency allowance of fuel for every flight, including a quatity for diversion to alternate airports, be it a commercial flight or even a private one. Also, to carry another engine would just be unwanted weight. If a Jumbo with four engines can crash, why do you think a fifth one would save it? Most commercial jets already have back-up electrical and hydraulic services aboard and quite often, human error or other circumstances cause the problem, not the aircraft itself.
regards
Stovepipe

Run_to_da_hills

Irish Helicopters lost a chopper off the coast in the late 70's because the pilot forgot to switch back from reserve to the main tanks.

He was delivering cement out to a rock and underestimated the fuel consumption, hit reserve before he got ashore to refuel. He then filled up and went about the shift again but forgot to switch back from reserve.

Flying close to the water to gain uplift he hadn't time to switch over to main tank when it ran out on reserve and ditched the whole lot. Luckily pilot was only one on board and got away.

FlutterinBantam

silverharp wrote: »

it might be a bit out there, but the ideas must have been thought about but dismissed due to cost etc. but why dont airplanes have a reserve fuel tank say 1 hrs fuel? I know planes have a reserve but planes have crashed because of faulty readings wrt to fuel loading etc. Another safety feature could be a reserve tail jet engine with independant controls. Again there have been any number of crashes where a reserve engine might just have been enough to allow planes to land.
Any others?

Commercial airlines calculate their fuel consumption very accurately.

They allow for all conditions and use a fuel cost index to save money.

Carrying a bag of 'reserve' fuel on every flight would not be economic.

Fuel cost management is one of the reasons airlines succeed or fail.

No point in a belt and braces approach.

globemaster1986

What Stovepipe and FlutterinBantam said!:D

And of course there's alway the RAT (Ram Air Tubine)

Fratton Fred

How about a parachute. Much more use than a bloody life jacket.

How many people drown at 35,000 feet?

cyrusdvirus

So instead of falling 35000 ft to your death you get to fall from 35000, lose concious due to oxygen deprivation, to 10000ft & then come around, then get to complement your impending death due to drowning for the next few minutes as you float down under a lovely silk canopy.

That's of course assuming you manage to extract yourself FROM the parachute when you splashdown and the thing doesn't act as a sea anchor!

Tenger

Fratton Fred wrote: »

How many people drown at 35,000 feet?

How many airports are close to large bodies of water?

Dublin, Galway, Cork, Belfast, Heathrow, Southend, London City, Liverpool, Manchester, Bristol, Edinburgh, Boston, New York, LAX, Chicago, San Francisco, Amsterdam, Hamburg, Nice, Marseille, Sydney, KL, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Bangkok, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Jo'Burg, Capetown, Tel Aviv,Geneva etc etc.

xflyer

Ejections seats? Or escape pods, yes that's it self contained escape pods with built in airbags that float on the sea with little onboard motors so they can cruise to safety. Better still add steerable wings so the escaping passengers can fly to safety without even landing in the sea.

Ok there is a flaw. Aircraft will have to be enormous with six engines, but hey you can't have too many engines. They could probably only carry 20 passengers with all the safety gear, spare engines, spare fuel, escape pods. So airfares would be about €10,000 to fly to London. But it's worth it for safety's sake!:D

cyrusdvirus

xflyer wrote: »

Ejections seats? Or escape pods, yes that's it self contained escape pods with built in airbags that float on the sea with little onboard motors so they can cruise to safety. Better still add steerable wings so the escaping passengers can fly to safety without even landing in the sea.

Ok there is a flaw. Aircraft will have to be enormous with six engines, but hey you can't have too many engines. They could probably only carry 20 passengers with all the safety gear, spare engines, spare fuel, escape pods. So airfares would be about €10,000 to fly to London. But it's worth it for safety's sake!:D

Escape pods with wings and mini engines? I suppose it's ONE way of making sure people pay attention to the pre flight safety briefing from the stewardesses!!!

Stovepipe

As a cynical old sweat(aviation-grade), once pointed out to me, the lifejackets in airliners are there so that it makes the job of locating your body after the crash, a little bit easier.
regards
Stovepipe

LLU

apparently there is a company (Ballistic Recovery Systems) who produce a parachute which attaches to a whole plane and so far it is credited with saving some 200 lives. Although it's only for light aircraft - would love to see the size of parachute they'd need for a commercial jet!

Fratton Fred

Stovepipe wrote: »

As a cynical old sweat(aviation-grade), once pointed out to me, the lifejackets in airliners are there so that it makes the job of locating your body after the crash, a little bit easier.
regards
Stovepipe

Isn't that the same reason you are told to adopt the "put your head between your legs and kiss your arse goodbye" position? To protect your teeth so I'd of your burnt, broken corpse is a lot easier?

Fratton Fred

Tenger wrote: »

How many airports are close to large bodies of water?

Dublin, Galway, Cork, Belfast, Heathrow, Southend, London City, Liverpool, Manchester, Bristol, Edinburgh, Boston, New York, LAX, Chicago, San Francisco, Amsterdam, Hamburg, Nice, Marseille, Sydney, KL, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Bangkok, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Jo'Burg, Capetown, Tel Aviv,Geneva etc etc.

How many airliners have landed on the afore mentioned large bodies of water?

tricky D

One on January 15, 2009 in New York.

Do I get a prize?

cyrusdvirus

tricky D wrote: »

One on January 15, 2009 in New York.

Do I get a prize?

if you count Flying Boats, from back in the day I'd be thinking a fair few more than that to be honest.

roundymac

A China Airlines 747 rolled off the end of Kai Tak airport in 1993, there was a typhoon blowing at time, I think (open to correction) the wind caught as it was turning to back track and it rolled tail first into Hong Kong bay.

Buffman

LLU wrote: »

apparently there is a company (Ballistic Recovery Systems) who produce a parachute which attaches to a whole plane and so far it is credited with saving some 200 lives. Although it's only for light aircraft - would love to see the size of parachute they'd need for a commercial jet!

Yep, it's a good invention aright. I'd say multiple parachutes would be needed for a commercial jet.

Stovepipe

Hi all,
Some militaries have installed foam fire suppression systems in transport aircraft such as the Hercules. There are also proposals to fit nitrogen suppression systems, for the same job.Military transports also tend to have better seat restraints than civvie aircraft but also tend to have little or no noise suppression inside so that you can arrive safe but be deafened;)
regards
GttC

IrishB.ie

Solution

Kit out the shuttle with seats, any problems with the shuttle, move everyone to the 747.

Fratton Fred

tricky D wrote: »

One on January 15, 2009 in New York.

Do I get a prize?

Yes, a free lifejacket located the compartment above your head.

tricky D

gatecrash wrote: »

if you count Flying Boats, from back in the day I'd be thinking a fair few more than that to be honest.

From that list probably only:
Edinburgh/Glasgow, Boston, New York, LAX, Chicago, San Francisco, Marseille?, Jo'Burg. Add Foynes too. Main point of departure from the UK was Southampton.

My dad used to fly the Jo-burg route around 1950 which was: Southampton, Syracuse, Alexandria, Aswan, Khartoum, Lake Tanzania, Lake Victoria (his point of departure) and to Jo'burg. Took the guts of a week and if there was a breakdown, the plane had to wait a week for spares.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yes, a free lifejacket located the compartment above your head.

Have my own lifejacket, can I have a parachute instead, pls?

Buffman

IrishB.ie wrote: »

Solution

Kit out the shuttle with seats, any problems with the shuttle, move everyone to the 747.

Yep, good idea.:D

I've another one that should be on all aircraft. The 'Everythings OK alarm'. Copyright Homer Simpson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTzByQTeyJQ

2 Pins

To combat the fuel tank low level situations, or fuel starvation situations resulting in several airline accidents EASA are looking to add a back up FQIS. Doesn't look like there is going to be any retrofit so we wont see this for a long time. Will only affects new aircraft certifications - see link for full NPA.

http://www.easa.eu.int/rulemaking/docs/npa/2011/NPA%202011-13.pdf