22 Navy Seals - Seal Team 6 - Killed In Afghanistan

WakeUp

Ok I’m not totally convinced myself that there is a conspiracy somewhere in this yet but the timing of these deaths considering the recent raid on the Bin Laden compound is certainly timely for want of better words to say the least whilst obviously tragic as any loss of life is.

A Chinook helicopter was shot down on Saturday in Eastern Afghanistan killing 30 American service personal of which 22 were members of the elite Seal Team 6 – the unit responsible for the raid on Bin Laden’s compound in Pakistan. The US defence department has said that none of the members killed took part in the raid in Pakistan, which is impossible to verify by a third party as its classified information so they have to be taken at their word for now anyway.

The Taliban have allegedly claimed responsibility for the downing of the chopper saying it was shot down by one of their fighters with a rocket. The press are quoting a Taliban spokesman by the name of Zabiullah Mujahid, this is where this claim of responsibility is coming from. Mujahid is an interesting character/enigma after looking into the name. There is a line of thought saying that this man doesn’t actually exist and the name Zabiullah Mujahid is infact any number of individuals who “assume” the persona of a Taliban spokesman when contacting Western and middle eastern reporters to claim responsibility for whatever. Mujahid could be anyone.

I tried looking to see if I could find an exact number of serving members on record currently operating in Team 6 but all I could find was either estimates or a number that cant be verified. I found an article in the New York Times and they quote a number of 300 currently serving in the unit. If that number is accurate 22 members from a unit so small is a large amount the largest loss of life in the units history and the largest US loss in one single day whilst in Afghanistan.

If there is a conspiracy in this story , if this indeed wasn’t an accident and was something else and the Seals killed on Saturday took part in the raid in Pakistan there are only really two reasons I can think of for it happening. The first being the obvious one, Bin Laden was never in that compound in the first place and the whole operation was a hoax and Seal Team 6 played along with it. The members were then taken out to keep them quiet and thus bury the secret.
Or the second one which I would be more inclined to believe myself if something is afoot..

We know after the raid in Pakistan that the US lost one of the choppers in the raid that has been confirmed. Is it possible that the people on that chopper died in the actual raid and the Americans have kept it quiet to save face and embarrassment or for some other reason?? Eventually they would have to account for the missing Seals and so this is a way of explaining their deaths away??..

The Americans lost 22 Seals, 3 Airforce air controllers a dog handler and his dog in the crash in Afghanistan. According to the Navy times site when they raided the compound in Pakistan both choppers contained 23 Seals a dog handler and his dog. Theses are the numbers reported there is no way to verify them as its classified there is a discrepancy of one man there but the numbers are a near perfect match. It’s very possible that this is the standard number of men /dogs’s used in any given operation that also has to be taken into account I think.

This only happened yesterday I’m sure we will hear more about it in the coming days and weeks that follow. Im Just putting it out there to see what people make of it???...

Paddysnapper

IMHO Insider information from a member of the Pakistani security forces!:mad:

Undergod

Another possible reason to lie and make seem as though the team that killed Bin Laden are dead is to protect them- from reporters and media as much as from Islamist reprisals. I don't know how the anonymity of these operations works though, so might not be a necessary measure.

theboss80

The New Yorker had a feature article from one of the Seals involved in the raid on Bin Laden here. (6pages)

WakeUp

There are a couple of things I keep thinking about with regard to Seal Team 6 that dont really add up for me. These guys are the elite of the elite black ops ninja type special forces who we have never heard about prior to the operation in Pakistan. Their existance has been speculated upon but thats about as far as it went. Black-ops by their nature operate behind the scenes you never hear about them or read about them, they are never acknowledged and we never know what operations they are involved in. Then Pakistan happened - boom - Seal Team 6 all over the media then this crash happened and I find this very strange I have to admit, the authorities went public and stated, probably before the families of the men killed were informed ( if it wasnt staged ) that they were members of Seal Team 6 who are basically a black ops unit. I find that very strange I have to say and no matter how many times I go over it in my head it just doesnt make sense taking the previous shroud of secrecy around such units and operations in the past. Also, what I know from reading up about special forces operations and Chinooks in particular, the model special forces use is the MH47 state of the art chopper with all sorts of counter weapons/radar/guns/gadgets on board. Usually they are accompanied by an Apache escort prior to inserting the troops on the ground. One Taliban with a rocket launcher ( shoulder launched ) allegedly took it down which is of course possible but he must have been some crack ass taliban insurgent to pull that off in my humble opinion if thats how it went down. An "eye witness" report on the ground said the chopper was hit whilst taking off from the roof of a building. Id like to see this building, Im not a military person but landing a 16m long chopper on top of a building in the middle of a built up area full of " bad guys" would to me seem like an extremely stupid thing to do and would give would be attackers a massive and fairly straight forward target to shoot at. Maybe someone who knows more about special forces operations, Chinook operations in particular can shed some light on that but landing such a big chopper on top of a buidling in Afghanistan doesnt appear to me to have been smartest thing to have done.

Bumblegoose

I doubt Osamas even dead.

Undergod

WakeUp wrote: »

There are a couple of things I keep thinking about with regard to Seal Team 6 that dont really add up for me. These guys are the elite of the elite black ops ninja type special forces who we have never heard about prior to the operation in Pakistan. Their existance has been speculated upon but thats about as far as it went. Black-ops by their nature operate behind the scenes you never hear about them or read about them, they are never acknowledged and we never know what operations they are involved in. Then Pakistan happened - boom - Seal Team 6 all over the media then this crash happened and I find this very strange I have to admit, the authorities went public and stated, probably before the families of the men killed were informed ( if it wasnt staged ) that they were members of Seal Team 6 who are basically a black ops unit. I find that very strange I have to say and no matter how many times I go over it in my head it just doesnt make sense taking the previous shroud of secrecy around such units and operations in the past. Also, what I know from reading up about special forces operations and Chinooks in particular, the model special forces use is the MH47 state of the art chopper with all sorts of counter weapons/radar/guns/gadgets on board. Usually they are accompanied by an Apache escort prior to inserting the troops on the ground. One Taliban with a rocket launcher ( shoulder launched ) allegedly took it down which is of course possible but he must have been some crack ass taliban insurgent to pull that off in my humble opinion if thats how it went down. An "eye witness" report on the ground said the chopper was hit whilst taking off from the roof of a building. Id like to see this building, Im not a military person but landing a 16m long chopper on top of a building in the middle of a built up area full of " bad guys" would to me seem like an extremely stupid thing to do and would give would be attackers a massive and fairly straight forward target to shoot at. Maybe someone who knows more about special forces operations, Chinook operations in particular can shed some light on that but landing such a big chopper on top of a buidling in Afghanistan doesnt appear to me to have been smartest thing to have done.

Eh, the Navy SEALs aren't exactly a mysterious organization- their existence is in no way secret, everyone knows they exist.

WakeUp

Undergod wrote: »

Eh, the Navy SEALs aren't exactly a mysterious organization- their existence is in no way secret, everyone knows they exist.

Thats true of course, but the unit involved in the Pakistan raid and the members killed in Afghanistan were from Team 6 which has always been fairly msterious and up until recently shrouded in secrecy.

hooradiation

WakeUp wrote: »

Thats true of course, but the unit involved in the Pakistan raid and the members killed in Afghanistan were from Team 6 which has always been fairly msterious and up until recently shrouded in secrecy.

It's probably worth noting that "seal team 6" is the informal name for the less catchy "United States Naval Special Warfare Development Group" - a counter terrorist unit that was formed after the Iran hostage crisis.
And while the majority of their activities are classified they're not completely unheard of.

for example we know that they were active in Grenada, Somalia and Bosnia. They're also the same guys that shot three Somali pirates from a lifeboat when the Maersk Alabama got hijacked back in 2009.

Jonny7

Much like the SBS, they aren't really that much of a 'secret'. Even Discovery channel has a show or two about them.

Choppers are probably the safest form of transport in Afghanistan, often they are the only form of transport.

Its been a bit of a arms race between insurgents v choppers over the decades, the Mujahideen had various arms that could take down Russian choppers of all shapes and sizes. In Somalia, both Blackhawks were downed by simple unguided RPG7's (the ones you will always see insurgents carrying)

In Iraq even Apaches have been downed.

In Afghanistan, SEAL team 6 don't get to be ferried around in blacked out limousines or something, they gotta take choppers like the rest of them.

I think what they'll most likely being trying to determine was whether this was just a lucky shot or, if there was a tip-off of some sort. Like the ISI in Pakistan, the Afghan army have proven very leaky when it comes to sensitive information.

With warfare of this kind, when a human is willing to blow themselves up to kill or maim the 'enemy' (often in vain, many suicide bombers never make it to target) - then its quite clear that they will have men willing to get very close to these choppers from a nearby house or cover and take a pot shot.

iPlop

link removed

WakeUp

Jonny7 wrote: »

In Afghanistan, SEAL team 6 don't get to be ferried around in blacked out limousines or something, they gotta take choppers like the rest of them.

Thats true they use choppers to get around because of the terrain and because its safer for them to be in the air, but when they went into Pakistan they used stealth type Blackhawks that nobody even knew existed until we seen the photo of the tail section in the compound. Team 6 are their top special forces Im fairly surprised they used a chinook, a big noisy visible let the insurgents know you are coming type chopper for this operation. Am I the only one who finds the fact that they landed such a massive chopper on top of a building strange if not stupid? Does anyone know is it standard practise to land a chinook of top of a builiding when inserting troops into an area. Has this ever been done before? After reading that other link SinktheBanana has just posted I dont think these choppers are being taken down with rpgs. Im thinking they must be some sort of SAM missile that is being used it would have to be an extremely accurate and lucky shot to take down a chinook with a shoulder launched weapon.

Jonny7

Sink The Banana wrote: »

Looks like a 2nd chopper has gone down killing 33

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/192893.html

Thats an Iranian state propaganda site.

A second chopper had a 'heavy landing' or crashed, but no casualties reported

iPlop

Jonny7 wrote: »

Thats an Iranian state propaganda site.

A second chopper had a 'heavy landing' or crashed, but no casualties reported

I didn't know that ,you're right ,thanks for that.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44055633/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/t/second-nato-chopper-goes-down-afghanistan/

Jonny7

WakeUp wrote: »

Thats true they use choppers to get around because of the terrain and because its safer for them to be in the air, but when they went into Pakistan they used stealth type Blackhawks that nobody even knew existed until we seen the photo of the tail section in the compound. Team 6 are their top special forces Im fairly surprised they used a chinook, a big noisy visible let the insurgents know you are coming type chopper for this operation. Am I the only one who finds the fact that they landed such a massive chopper on top of a building strange if not stupid? Does anyone know is it standard practise to land a chinook of top of a builiding when inserting troops into an area. Has this ever been done before? After reading that other link SinktheBanana has just posted I dont think these choppers are being taken down with rpgs. Im thinking they must be some sort of SAM missile that is being used it would have to be an extremely accurate and lucky shot to take down a chinook with a shoulder launched weapon.

NBC and a lot of other media reporting it as a rocket propelled grenade, another report in the Telegraph citing Afghan sources saying the chopper was effectively called into a trap, a one-way route around the mountain and was fired on from multiple sources. Wait for the dust to settle and we'll see. Usually Al Jazeera are pretty spot on, but a rooftop landing and take-off for a Chinook? hmm doesn't sound right.

Despite precautions and countermeasures, the Chinook by its nature is a large slow moving target.

I don't smell a conspiracy yet, but will wait and see what reports come out, either way its a big propaganda coup for Mr Taliban.

There's a small thread on this on the military forum, but again, we're all just waiting for more info.

profitius

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzZviW44E8U

jackiebaron

Seems they might have gotten their hands on some new weaponry and tactics. If an RPG can tear through a Humvee then I doubt a Chinook's armour is much thicker but what do I know. Apparently they hit it in the "nose" also after it went down in flames it burnt on the ground for 8 hours. I guess everyone and everything inside were incinerated.

http://www.thenational.ae/thenational/news/worldwide/south-asia/taliban-claim-new-weapon-after-us-helicopter-crash-propaganda-coup

jackiebaron

Now these clowns are stating that they've killed the very guy who took downed this helicopter.

What KIND of idiots do they think we are??? Did they have the guy GPS chipped? How do they know who fired the weapon(s) that blasted this 'copter?
And if they did know exactly who did it, then HOW did they know? Did someone just call up the Pentagon and say "hey guys, you know that chopper that you just had whacked, well the guy who did it is having a kebab and a cup of tea just across the street"

The American diarrhoea machine has entered fantasy land.

So HOW did they identify the guy who did this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqN2UYGBFk4

stuar

Read this earlier,

Dead Men Don’t Talk: US Navy Seals Destroyed to Cover Up Washington’s Bin Laden Execution Hoax?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25935

and this.

EXECUTION OF BIN LADEN: “That’s Not Osama”: Neighbor. “It’s all a fake, nothing happened”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25924

Now with the way binladen was disposed of, the contradictions just dont add up for me.

The killing of Osama bin Laden: how the White House changed its storyBin Laden not armed and did not use woman as human shield, US admits; Barack Obama's spokesman blames 'fog of war'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/04/osama-bin-laden-killing-us-story-change

jackiebaron

jackiebaron wrote: »

Now these clowns are stating that they've killed the very guy who took downed this helicopter.

What KIND of idiots do they think we are??? Did they have the guy GPS chipped? How do they know who fired the weapon(s) that blasted this 'copter?
And if they did know exactly who did it, then HOW did they know? Did someone just call up the Pentagon and say "hey guys, you know that chopper that you just had whacked, well the guy who did it is having a kebab and a cup of tea just across the street"

The American diarrhoea machine has entered fantasy land.

So HOW did they identify the guy who did this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqN2UYGBFk4

So "they" the all omnipresent pentagon knew exactly who blew this chopper out of the air yet they never announced that they have called in some bullcrap airstrike against that Baghdad sniper who seems to have given them quite the headache (pardon the pun) and clipped US soldiers for 2 years:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cfcb67c129

They didn't know know that team who whacked 8 US paratroopers on a roof and shot some of them with their own guns?

They had no clue who zapped Karzai's half brother?

They have no clue who torches 100 oil tankers a week entering the Khyber Pass?

Yet they knew exactly who did this shït?? :pac:

More crap to feed the infants, ala "Ladies and Gentlemen! We Got Him".

(inserts fingers into throat)

clever_name

WakeUp wrote: »

Jonny in fairness, you have posted a couple of videos now which have absolutely nothing to do with the thread that should be for the Mod's to point out and not me in a way you are derailing the thread. When Jones speaks a lot of the time it has to be taken with a pinch of salt but the video Profitius has posted is relevent to the thread as it deals specifically with the topic at hand , unlike the videos you have posted.

Posting a clip of Jones talking about the spying light-bulbs is entirely relevant as it helps to gauge the credibility of the source. Also how do you know which bits to take with a pinch of salt?

WakeUp wrote: »

Youre entitled to your opinion of course but posting videos that are in no way connected to the thread just to back up your belief that "this guy is talking sh1te" or whatever is childish at best.

If he just posted saying "this guy is talking crap" what use would that be? instead he posted something to show that Jones can talk a pile of crap, seems like a valid post to me.

WakeUp

clever_name wrote: »

Posting a clip of Jones talking about the spying light-bulbs is entirely relevant as it helps to gauge the credibility of the source. Also how do you know which bits to take with a pinch of salt?

No it isnt two completely different topics. If you watched the video he claims he has "sources". We dont know for sure that the sources he claims to have spoken to arent telling him the truth. Im going to have a look for the radio interview he says he was going to do with his "source" if I can find it I will post it. Posting videos about lightbulbs and other such things is silly and adds nothing to the thread, in my opinion.

clever_name wrote: »

If he just posted saying "this guy is talking crap" what use would that be? instead he posted something to show that Jones can talk a pile of crap, seems like a valid post to me.

If you are going to accuse somebody of talking crap well then go and prove that person is talking crap. Dont post some sh1te about a fcking light bulb on a completely different topic, go and prove him wrong on the topic at hand. Its a nonsense post to me lets just agree to disagree eh.

stuar

clever_name wrote: »

Posting a clip of Jones talking about the spying light-bulbs is entirely relevant as it helps to gauge the credibility of the source. Also how do you know which bits to take with a pinch of salt?.

Please look at this clip by LVX system, Minnesota, quite interesting stuff, not meaning to pull the thread off course just showing what the manufacturers of lighting systems are saying about what they do, 2:10 has an interesting claim.
http://www.electrictv.net/Home.aspx?PlayID=70

http://www.lvx-system.com/

clever_name wrote: »

If he just posted saying "this guy is talking crap" what use would that be? instead he posted something to show that Jones can talk a pile of crap, seems like a valid post to me.

Well seeing what lvx are claiming, maybe he's not too far wrong.

As each LVX light is an intelligent computer controlled device that is part of a larger automated network and equipped with programmable illumination and can be equipped with microphones, speakers, cameras, and the knowledge of its own GPS location, its applications are virtually limitless.
Imagine the possibilities and applications that will be available with LVX technology, and what users will do with this new capability
http://www.lvx-system.com/pages/LVXApps/

WakeUp

Ok just so as that we can move past Jones's claims until he makes some more I found part of the video he claims as one of his "sources". Im looking for the other videos when I find them I will post them. This guy goes by the name of "Colonel 6" and I have to admit he does not strike me as the sort of person to hold that sort of rank in the military. I really dont like to judge somebody that I dont know purely on how they sound and articulate themselves but if we are going to be subjective in so much as that what this person claims to be/ is claiming I would have to say that this guy seems to have problems forming sentences, being coherent, understanding and articualting military "lingo" and generally doesnt come across as the officer "type" or if Im being really critical he doesnt seem to bright. Im a little surprised actually Jones has given him the platform it doesnt do much for his credibility on this particular topic. Personally Im not convinced at all then again I could have it all wrong people can have a listen and make up their own mind:) Even if this guy is talking sh1te it still doesnt mean something is afoot we just dont know at the moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIKDeEXew1A

hooradiation

jackiebaron wrote: »

Now these clowns are stating that they've killed the very guy who took downed this helicopter.

What KIND of idiots do they think we are??? Did they have the guy GPS chipped? How do they know who fired the weapon(s) that blasted this 'copter?
And if they did know exactly who did it, then HOW did they know? Did someone just call up the Pentagon and say "hey guys, you know that chopper that you just had whacked, well the guy who did it is having a kebab and a cup of tea just across the street"

The American diarrhoea machine has entered fantasy land.

So HOW did they identify the guy who did this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqN2UYGBFk4

sounds plausible to me.
Well, not how you described it, but i see nothing wrong with the news unfiltered by you.

humanji

Some off-topic posts were deleted (if anyone was wondering).

jackiebaron

hooradiation wrote: »

sounds plausible to me.
Well, not how you described it, but i see nothing wrong with the news unfiltered by you.

hoo,

They made an announcement that they killed the guy(s) who downed the chinook.
Think about that. How could they POSSIBLY know who shot down the helicopter?
Secondly how come they don't announce that they've killed the specific perpetrator of every single IED attack and every single Black Hawk or Apache that gets shot down or in fact every single soldier who gets killed? Why this event?

I am in no doubt that the chopper was shot down by some fairly intrepid mountain men but how the hell would the US know which specific guy did it? I mean that's just too fantastic to believe.

This event was a real morale sapper and kind of undid any boost in ratings that the Afghan conflict got by the fictitious Bin Laden hit. So, to quickly nip in the bud further erosion of the public's tolerance for this debacle they quickly announce that they got the chopper killer. Another infantile American ploy...they get a bloody nose and are accutely embarrassed by it so they try to offset that by making up some tripe that they "avenged their fallen comrades"

"Look folks, we can take a hit but we'll always get our man! You can run but you can't hide! Smokin' 'em out! Freedom! Blah, blah blah!"

It's pathetic.

Undergod

jackiebaron wrote: »

hoo,

They made an announcement that they killed the guy(s) who downed the chinook.
Think about that. How could they POSSIBLY know who shot down the helicopter?
Secondly how come they don't announce that they've killed the specific perpetrator of every single IED attack and every single Black Hawk or Apache that gets shot down or in fact every single soldier who gets killed? Why this event?

They could get that information from local sources- I'm sure it happens a lot. The Taliban don't always have huge support from the people.

They don't necessarily get every perpetrator, so they don't always have that as an item to an announce- your objection seems to be based in assuming they're lying.

Of course they're going to announce this event, SEAL Team 6 are famous now, it's going to be under more scrutiny. Some random Marine getting blown up is still a terrible loss, but the story's not going to be of as much interest to people.

Of course, all this is based on the assumption that you've followed all the military reports for every IED attack, downed helicopter and KIA soldier. If you haven't, well you don't have anything to compare against. You have an interest in this case (and seem to already have your mind made up), so of course you're going to be more aware of the details and aftermath than you were for all the IED attacks you didn't read about.

jackiebaron

Undergod wrote: »

They could get that information from local sources- I'm sure it happens a lot. The Taliban don't always have huge support from the people.

They don't necessarily get every perpetrator, so they don't always have that as an item to an announce- your objection seems to be based in assuming they're lying.

Of course they're going to announce this event, SEAL Team 6 are famous now, it's going to be under more scrutiny. Some random Marine getting blown up is still a terrible loss, but the story's not going to be of as much interest to people.

Of course, all this is based on the assumption that you've followed all the military reports for every IED attack, downed helicopter and KIA soldier. If you haven't, well you don't have anything to compare against. You have an interest in this case (and seem to already have your mind made up), so of course you're going to be more aware of the details and aftermath than you were for all the IED attacks you didn't read about.

Nope.

I'm sticking with my propaganda theory. The US government and the Pentagon tell so many lies and spout such crap that everything they say now I treat as bullsh!t first until it can be demonstrated that there's absolutely ZERO advantage to be had by lying....only then do I consider it to be possibly truthful.

For example if a report was released which stated that "one in four female G.I.'s is raped in the US military by fellow-servicemen" and the DoD has "yet to comment" then I take it to be true.

I'd also go with the old chestnut "don't believe anything until it's been officially denied!"

Jonny7

WakeUp wrote: »

Ok just so as that we can move past Jones's claims until he makes some more I found part of the video he claims as one of his "sources". Im looking for the other videos when I find them I will post them. This guy goes by the name of "Colonel 6" and I have to admit he does not strike me as the sort of person to hold that sort of rank in the military. I really dont like to judge somebody that I dont know purely on how they sound and articulate themselves but if we are going to be subjective in so much as that what this person claims to be/ is claiming I would have to say that this guy seems to have problems forming sentences, being coherent, understanding and articualting military "lingo" and generally doesnt come across as the officer "type" or if Im being really critical he doesnt seem to bright. Im a little surprised actually Jones has given him the platform it doesnt do much for his credibility on this particular topic. Personally Im not convinced at all then again I could have it all wrong people can have a listen and make up their own mind:) Even if this guy is talking sh1te it still doesnt mean something is afoot we just dont know at the moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIKDeEXew1A

I've been reading his blog, from his jargon he appears to be in the service, but I don't feel he's done any tours abroad yet.

I think I am gonna concoct some bull**** and send it to this guy and see if he subsequently passes it on to Alex Jones as another "source" on the matter.

These people are seriously gullible.

hooradiation

jackiebaron wrote: »

hoo,

They made an announcement that they killed the guy(s) who downed the chinook.
Think about that. How could they POSSIBLY know who shot down the helicopter?

I don't find it beyond the realm of reason that an army with the resources and presence of the US army in Afghanistan could track down the group responsible if they set their minds to it.
These people are not desert shamen with the ability to vanish at will - and like all groups they can be tracked down, and as has been pointed out to you there is not universal support for the taliban. It's hard to hide among the populace when sections of the populace wants you to just go the fuck away.

jackiebaron wrote: »

Secondly how come they don't announce that they've killed the specific perpetrator of every single IED attack and every single Black Hawk or Apache that gets shot down or in fact every single soldier who gets killed? Why this event?

Given it was the single biggest loss of life in the history SEAL Team Six and the total death toll surpasses what was previously the worst single day loss of life for the U.S.-led coalition in Afghanistan i am not surprised they spent the time and effort to find and kill those responsible.

jackiebaron wrote: »

I am in no doubt that the chopper was shot down by some fairly intrepid mountain men but how the hell would the US know which specific guy did it? I mean that's just too fantastic to believe.

No it's not.
At the risk of making it sound too simplistic - if they were able to locate the nearest group of taliban then they've got the people most likely to be responsible for the downing of the Chinook.

jackiebaron wrote: »

This event was a real morale sapper and kind of undid any boost in ratings that the Afghan conflict got by the fictitious Bin Laden hit. So, to quickly nip in the bud further erosion of the public's tolerance for this debacle they quickly announce that they got the chopper killer. Another infantile American ploy...they get a bloody nose and are accutely embarrassed by it so they try to offset that by making up some tripe that they "avenged their fallen comrades"

"Look folks, we can take a hit but we'll always get our man! You can run but you can't hide! Smokin' 'em out! Freedom! Blah, blah blah!"

It's pathetic.

I have no comment on this nonsense.

tweedledee

I'm ex-military myself and I was very surprised that the Government were soo quick to say they were "special forces" and that they gave the exact unit with a headcount??????????
Also in such an environment the use of such a very large chopper is very amateurish.:eek:
They aint the best of the best.

tweedledee

Sorry Radiation you are kinda wrong,its extremely difficult to track down anybody in the mountains of Afghanistan,if you have ever been there you would understand.
Everybody over there looks the same because they all have beards and wear exactly the same garments!!!
It took the Gov,10 years to "kill" Mr Big because 99% of the people there hate all western states,even the so-called Pakistani "allies" and they feed the Gov all kinds of garbage to confuse the military occupires.
Its a very hostile place,history would have told the Americans that,just ask the Russians.

profitius

Jonny7 wrote: »

I've been reading his blog, from his jargon he appears to be in the service, but I don't feel he's done any tours abroad yet.

I think I am gonna concoct some bull**** and send it to this guy and see if he subsequently passes it on to Alex Jones as another "source" on the matter.

These people are seriously gullible.

Jones questions Colonel 6 about telling his real name etc which is not the actions of somebody who is gullible.

If you want to see gullible people just look out your window.

WakeUp

tweedledee wrote: »

I'm ex-military myself and I was very surprised that the Government were soo quick to say they were "special forces" and that they gave the exact unit with a headcount??????????
Also in such an environment the use of such a very large chopper is very amateurish.:eek:
They aint the best of the best.

Exactly. Im not a military person myself and even I find that extremely strange especially going public about team 6 or DEVGRU. Not only did they reveal what unit it was straight away but you would think they would have done all they could to deny the Taliban such a p.r coup by going public and saying "yes this chopper was shot down in enemy territory" but they did the complete opposite. The way they went public so fast about this just doesnt make any sense to me and Im sure its been questioned aswell in the military world and not just by non-military people.

WakeUp

Jonny7 wrote: »

I've been reading his blog, from his jargon he appears to be in the service, but I don't feel he's done any tours abroad yet.

I think I am gonna concoct some bull**** and send it to this guy and see if he subsequently passes it on to Alex Jones as another "source" on the matter.

These people are seriously gullible.

Maybe we should email the colonel and ask him will come and chat to us here on boards clear a few things up for us had a look at his page myself:D maybe I will no harm trying. I've emailed Jones before and he's written back to me dont know if it was him now but someone replied. Ive also emailed him a couple of times asking him to come onto boards but he didnt repy da bollix:) Might have better luck with the colonel Ill fire an email off to him sure no harm trying.

WakeUp

Interesting headline on The Irish Sun website thought I would post it, its titled "Infowars Ireland Predicted Seal Team 6 Demise". They have a link on the page you can follow to read the full story if anyone wants to have a look.

Jonny7

profitius wrote: »

Jones questions Colonel 6 about telling his real name etc which is not the actions of somebody who is gullible.

If you want to see gullible people just look out your window.

So any soldier who has apparently served from Afghanistan or Iraq (or the national guard) can call into Alex Jones, and he asks them their name and unit, then they can say whatever they want.. like this fellow..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tXWngXSRA

This man is a colonel? an officer? has been to Afghanistan/Iraq? a squadron of men? 75% addicted to "opium? hmmm

Ask questions! think! don't be one of the sheeple

WakeUp

Jonny7 wrote: »

So any soldier who has apparently served from Afghanistan or Iraq (or the national guard) can call into Alex Jones, and he asks them their name and unit, then they can say whatever they want.. like this fellow..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tXWngXSRA

This man is a colonel? an officer? has been to Afghanistan/Iraq? a squadron of men? 75% addicted to "opium? hmmm

Ask questions! think! don't be one of the sheeple

What if colonel 6 actually isnt a colonel at all and "colonel 6" is just an alias he is using for whatever reason. What if he is a former operative/agent someone who worked on the ground and wasnt an officer at all. In that video he didnt state what rank he held in the military and neither did he do it in the video I posted a few posts back. In the above video he says he worked in "intelligence" and he claims he is reporting back to somebody or at least he is still in contact with somebody he would view as superior to him or has an interest in him/ what he is up to. His claim about 50% to 75% of soldiers returning from tours addicted to opium is probably impossible to look into. I would imagine any soldier who did end up addicted to opium if it happens would not want to go on record for such a thing. In that sense no records of people seeking treatment/ numbers in rehab would be available Im guessing but Ill have a look. He shouldnt really be making such big claims like that unless he provides some way of backing it up. Interesting character all the same Im going to email him tomorrow and say hello I wonder will he write me back:)

hooradiation

tweedledee wrote: »

Sorry Radiation you are kinda wrong,its extremely difficult to track down anybody in the mountains of Afghanistan,if you have ever been there you would understand.

I will assume you're arguing in good faith here.

tweedledee wrote: »

Everybody over there looks the same because they all have beards and wear exactly the same garments!!!

Even if this gives me no real reason to believe so.

tweedledee wrote: »

It took the Gov,10 years to "kill" Mr Big because 99% of the people there hate all western states,even the so-called Pakistani "allies" and they feed the Gov all kinds of garbage to confuse the military occupires.

And yet they did kill Bin Laden - which leads me to the following question.

If it takes ten years for the USA to track one well educated man who has a long history of constantly moving about, a great deal of resources and followers at his disposal and what appears to be connections at high levels in multiple regional governments then how long will it take the same army to track a local group of Taliban who have none of the above?

Answer:

Four Days

tweedledee wrote: »

Its a very hostile place,history would have told the Americans that,just ask the Russians.

I fail to see what that really has to do with anything here after all even without your military experience i can see that the approaches taken by both are different enough to render any comparison essentially meaningless.

profitius

Jonny7 wrote: »

So any soldier who has apparently served from Afghanistan or Iraq (or the national guard) can call into Alex Jones, and he asks them their name and unit, then they can say whatever they want.. like this fellow..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tXWngXSRA

This man is a colonel? an officer? has been to Afghanistan/Iraq? a squadron of men? 75% addicted to "opium? hmmm

I think you're the gullible one if you believe Alex Jones is gullible. AJ makes thousands of accusations every year and is careful to back them up and not believe everything he is told. He also knows there are people out there spreading disinformation. If you watched the video he also said he had other sources in the military and they are telling him the same things as Colonel 6. So he is obviously going on facts here and not diving straight into it as you would have people believe.

jonny7 wrote:

Ask questions! think! don't be one of the sheeple

Yeah...

Jeboa Safari

WakeUp wrote: »

Exactly. Im not a military person myself and even I find that extremely strange especially going public about team 6 or DEVGRU. Not only did they reveal what unit it was straight away but you would think they would have done all they could to deny the Taliban such a p.r coup by going public and saying "yes this chopper was shot down in enemy territory" but they did the complete opposite. The way they went public so fast about this just doesnt make any sense to me and Im sure its been questioned aswell in the military world and not just by non-military people.

Maybe they knew the information would come out anyway, and didn't want to look like they'd been forced into an embarrassing admission a few days later

Jonny7

profitius wrote: »

I think you're the gullible one if you believe Alex Jones is gullible. AJ makes thousands of accusations every year and is careful to back them up and not believe everything he is told. He also knows there are people out there spreading disinformation. If you watched the video he also said he had other sources in the military and they are telling him the same things as Colonel 6. So he is obviously going on facts here and not diving straight into it as you would have people believe.

He has made many false and sometimes quite crazy claims.

Himself and Bill O'Reilly do the exact same thing - milk and fuel public anger and ignorance, and make good money out of it.

However Bill O Reilly doesn't constantly claim to have inside sources he can't reveal and tap pieces of paper as proof he can't show.

If you are articulate enough, you can start your own internet radio show doing the same thing, you don't need to actually prove a single thing, just say you have sources. The sheeple won't question you if you agree with them

seanmacc

A Chinhook is not that mush of a slow cumbersome helicopter. The Chinhook has a speed of 170knots (315km/h). When you compare that to an Apache which goes at 309km/h with light arms

BostonB

The chinook makes a huge target and isn't armoured in the same way an Apache is, and I assume isn't as maneuverable. Top speed isn't much good when landing, taking off.

Theres been a few chinooks shot down previously, so this isn't much of a surprise. What is surprising is they had so many seals on it. I think they've got a bit too complacent in how they use them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aviation_accidents_and_incidents_in_the_War_in_Afghanistan

Jonny7

I'm surprised no one has pointed this out

2005 : USAF Roundel June 28: A US CH-47 Chinook helicopter was shot down in Kunar province by Taliban commander Qari Ismail, killing all 16 US Special Forces servicemen on board. The US military says it was shot down by a rocket-propelled grenade. The helicopter was on a rescue mission for Operation Red Wings a team of four SEAL members, pinned down by Taliban gunmen.

2002 : # USAF Roundel March 4: Two CH-47 Chinook helicopters were hit by RPGs and gunfire during Operation Anaconda. Two were killed in the first helicopter, which was dropping off a SEAL team. The second Chinook came in later that day to try and rescue the crew of the first CH-47, and subsequently was shot down, killing four.

Monty Burnz

Undergod wrote: »

Another possible reason to lie and make seem as though the team that killed Bin Laden are dead is to protect them- from reporters and media as much as from Islamist reprisals. I don't know how the anonymity of these operations works though, so might not be a necessary measure.

Interesting point, but as I understand it the identities of these Seal teams are secret. Even the members of the ARW in this country are meant to be unidentified while serving.