Changing the rules for Presidential Candidates

bijapos

In light of the recent struggle for David Norris to get his name on the ballot sheet* and the fact that the present rules left us with no election in 2004 I would propose the following changes to nominating a candidate to the Presidency.

• Any Irish citizen over the age of 18 may stand. (At present you need to be 35.)

• Any Irish citizen may vote. This includes any Irish citizen living abroad. The position is essentially representative, not political so why not. Logistically a challenge but possible, France does this, and the french Presidents position is very political, so why shouldn't we be able to vote for a President who has little real influence.

• To be nominated you must be nominated by either

1. Any County Council (not 4 as present)
or
2. Any 3 members of the Oireachtas (not 20 at present)
or
3. 10,000 signatures of people on the registrar of electors. (proper signatures with address and PPS number)

The past few months have had Norris consistently topping opinion polls but yet the major political parties did their best to maintain the cozy status quo in ensuing that their own candidates were given a better chance by refusing to help Norris in getting nominated.

Its one of those things where we see politicans in opposition clamouring for change and reform of our political system but when they do get on the throne they prefer to keep the status quo and keep power away from the people. The President is not a very powerful position so it should be ripe for reform.




* I refer here to the fact that he needed either 4 County Councils or 20 members of the Oireachtas to nominate him. I don't want this to descend into a debate as to whether he should morally have been on the balllot sheet or not.

Any ideas on the above?

OhNoYouDidn't

Too easy.

You would have hundreds of names on the ballot.

Somewhere in the middle. Or allow any member of the Oireachteas run

Manach

Select a random voter by chance from the electoral role? The advantage being is that they never sought the post, hence would not be a politician.

mike65

bijapos wrote: »

In light of the recent struggle for David Norris to get his name on the ballot sheet* and the fact that the present rules left us with no election in 2004 I would propose the following changes to nominating a candidate to the Presidency.


[*]Any Irish citizen may vote. This includes any Irish citizen living abroad. The position is essentially representative, not political so why not. Logistically a challenge but possible, France does this, and the french Presidents position is very political, so why shouldn't we be able to vote for a President who has little real influence.
[/LIST]

• To be nominated you must be nominated by either

1. Any County Council (not 4 as present)
or
2. Any 3 members of the Oireachtas (not 20 at present)
or
3. 10,000 signatures of people on the registrar of electors. (proper signatures with address and PPS number)

You do know over 10% of the population is currently disenfranchised, if you are resident you should be allowed to vote I reckon.

I'd go for option 3, the idea of having to pimp oneself to a bunch of TDs/councillors is really too much, its the people potential candidates need to convince. Not biased time servers. If one can whip up 10,000 signatures that's good enough to stand a chance.

bijapos

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Too easy.

You would have hundreds of names on the ballot.

Somewhere in the middle. Or allow any member of the Oireachteas run

How would you have hundreds on the ballot? to be fair I think you exaggerate.

If a Co.Co. is restricted to nominating one candidate they will still take it pretty seriously, remember a serious candidate like Norris struggled to get more than one council to nomianate him.

The three TDs/senators would also have to answer if they let a joke candidate run and it takes a fair bit of effort to get 10,000 people to sign your nomination sheet. I'm talking here of actual signatures, not online or Facebook friends/like noiminations.

Allowing any member of the Oireachtas to run disenfranchises everyone apart from the 226 in Leinster House. It will still keep power in the small golden ccircle.

bijapos

mike65 wrote: »

You do know over 10% of the population is currently disenfranchised, if you are resident you should be allowed to vote I reckon.

Yes thats an idea too, open it up to anyone on the Local or European election lists as well.

I'd go for option 3, the idea of having to pimp oneself to a bunch of TDs/councillors is really too much, its the people potential candidates need to convince. Not biased time servers. If one can whip up 10,000 signatures that's good enough to stand a chance.

I actually meant any of the three above options would suffice.

mike65

Hmm I'd go with the 10k as the only way forward. At least you'll have candidates who are plausibly popular.

OhNoYouDidn't

bijapos wrote: »

How would you have hundreds on the ballot? to be fair I think you exaggerate..

Not really. There has to be a balance. At the moment, I agree, its too difficult and relies on elites. You might be making it too easy, which could lead to cranks and nutters

bijapos wrote: »

If a Co.Co. is restricted to nominating one candidate they will still take it pretty seriously, remember a serious candidate like Norris struggled to get more than one council to nomianate him. .

There are 29 county councils. They could pick one each.

bijapos wrote: »

The three TDs/senators would also have to answer if they let a joke candidate run and it takes a fair bit of effort to get 10,000 people to sign your nomination sheet. I'm talking here of actual signatures, not online or Facebook friends/like noiminations..

I don't think it is much hassle to get 10,000 sigs. Especially down the sticks. Just put a stall on the main street, done fairly easily.

bijapos wrote: »

Allowing any member of the Oireachtas to run disenfranchises everyone apart from the 226 in Leinster House. It will still keep power in the small golden ccircle.

Or allow every independent who wants to run to run. Or party members who can live without the machine.

We need to balance serious candidates who are independent being able to get in and keep the jokers out. Allowing TD's and senators a run would help IMO

I'm also sceptical of an 18 year old President.

ninty9er

The current system of electing a President hasn't really failed us to date. In retrospect people may argue, but during the term of office of any President there has rarely, if at all been accusations of failing the people.

35 isn't ancient and gives someone enough time to gain the experience required to judge when it may be necessary to refer bills or to exercise the powers vested in the President. Personally I don't fancy some 24 year old like myself addressing a joint sitting of the Oireachtas when the level of experience cannot be great. No problem being a TD, but being Head of State is much more important and requires a little more real life experience.

bijapos

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

There are 29 county councils. They could pick one each

.

Very doubtful, we saw what happened with Norris.

I don't think it is much hassle to get 10,000 sigs. Especially down the sticks. Just put a stall on the main street, done fairly easily.

Again takes some effort and if they do get it, its probably well deserved. or increase it. 25,000 ?

I'm also sceptical of an 18 year old President

ninty9er wrote: »

The current system of electing a President hasn't really failed us to date. In retrospect people may argue, but during the term of office of any President there has rarely, if at all been accusations of failing the people.

35 isn't ancient and gives someone enough time to gain the experience required to judge when it may be necessary to refer bills or to exercise the powers vested in the President. Personally I don't fancy some 24 year old like myself addressing a joint sitting of the Oireachtas when the level of experience cannot be great. No problem being a TD, but being Head of State is much more important and requires a little more real life experience.

Point taken from both of ye, maybe there is something to be said about the age, it could be regarded as discrimminatory though.

I disagree with your first point though, the system has failed us on a number of occasions, in 2004 we had no election and in a couple of other years as well iirc. Until the last Norris scandal broke he was having serious difficulty getting on the ballot even though polls showed him to be the most popular candidate.

Irishlad11

Maybe bump up the 10,000 signatures up to 100,000.

With 10,000 signatures you probably have a higher chance of there being more joke candidates.

Maybe even require the support of 10 TDs/Senators as well????

ninjasurfer1

bijapos wrote: »

[*]Any Irish citizen may vote. This includes any Irish citizen living abroad. The position is essentially representative, not political so why not. Logistically a challenge but possible, France does this, and the french Presidents position is very political, so why shouldn't we be able to vote for a President who has little real influence.

3. 10,000 signatures of people on the registrar of electors. (proper signatures with address and PPS number)

I wouldn't agree with any irish citizen getting to vote on it. If they're not resident, and part of (and impacted by) the state the president represents, they shouldn't get a vote.

I'd definitely agree with the option of getting a quota of votes. It might help to break up the cosy cartel that we've seen in this election (where Norris was struggling to get the minimum number of nominations, depite being the publics favorite).

Having said that, they should do away with the post altogether if they don't cut its costs dramatically.

Current salary of €325,000 per annum (with its concomitant generous pension).
In addition to her salary, President McAleese also received €1.2 million since 2006 in tax-free presidential allowances.

http://www.laois-nationalist.ie/tabId/161/itemId/1722/Does-Ireland-need-a-president.aspx
http://www.thejournal.ie/president-offers-to-take-budget-2011s-biggest-wage-cut-2010-12/

nesf

A primary perhaps, postal style like the the Seanad elections? Anyone with 10,000 signatures can get on the ballot and people exceeding some threshold of the electorate (say 10%, or perhaps the top 3 or 4 go through) get to go into the main election for President.

Not the cheapest way of doing things but it would ensure popular candidates were on the ballot on the big day.

Cookie_Monster

Manach wrote: »

Select a random voter by chance from the electoral role? The advantage being is that they never sought the post, hence would not be a politician.

I don't think that would work though. What happens to my job and career for those 7 years? Also you could end up with some total scumbag who'd just go around telling other head of state to "go f*ck yourself, mista" :P