Should the presidency be open to 26 county candidates only?

ninjasurfer1

I was browsing the irish constitution recently and came across article 12 which refers to the presidency.

Article 12 states:

There shall be a President of Ireland, hereinafter called the President, who shall take precedence over all other persons in the State and who shall exercise and perform the powers and functions conferred on the President by this Constitution and by law.

Note: Bold emphasis is my own.

While the notion of someone representing all 32 counties is a nice one, in reality, given that the role (while largely ceremonial) involves tasks relating to the laws of the irish state, should applicants for the role be limited to citizens of the irish state (much like what the Americans do for their presidential candidates)?

Also, from http://www.president.ie/index.php?section=15&lang=eng :

"The President represents all the people when undertaking official engagements at home and abroad. The President is Supreme Commander of the Defence Forces".

Again, does this not reinforce the notion that the role should be open only to those who are part of the state?

Slightly off topic, but i also noticed the following:

(11.2) The President shall receive such emoluments and allowances as may be determined by law.
(11.3) The emoluments and allowances of the President shall not be diminished during his term of office.

Is now not the perfect time to cut the salary and entitlements of the role before a new president takes the office?

KeithAFC

It should only be for people involved in the Republic of Ireland. It should not involve Northern Ireland.

OhNoYouDidn't

About 14 years to late on this one....

The President is open to any Irish citizen. They come from the 6 counties too.

steddyeddy

No they can come from anywhere on the island. I see no reason why this should change.

Dun

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

While the notion of someone representing all 32 counties is a nice one, in reality, given that the role (while largely ceremonial) involves tasks relating to the laws of the irish state, should applicants for the role be limited to citizens of the irish state (much like what the Americans do for their presidential candidates)?

It is limited to citizens of Ireland, and anybody born in the 32 counties has Irish citizenship, if they want it.

Blisterman

It should be open to whoever the Irish people choose to vote for.

ninjasurfer1

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

About 14 years to late on this one....

The President is open to any Irish citizen. They come from the 6 counties too.

I know its open to the 32 counties (Mary is proof of that).

My point is that the role is inextricably linked to performing political tasks within the irish State.

It would not appear to make sense that the role could be given to a person (irish citizen or not) who is not bound by our laws (as in the case of someone from the 6 counties).

There shall be a President of Ireland, hereinafter called the President, who shall take precedence over all other persons in the State and who shall exercise and perform the powers and functions conferred on the President by this Constitution and by law.

Given that the 6 counties are not part of the irish state, and are not directly impacted by our constitution or laws, does it make sense to allow someone from there to take up the role of President?

Would there not be the possibility of divided allegiances to both the Irish and British constitutions?

OhNoYouDidn't

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

I know its open to the 32 counties (Mary is proof of that).

My point is that the role is inextricably linked to performing political tasks within the irish State.

It would not appear to make sense that the role could be given to a person (irish citizen or not) who is not bound by our laws (as in the case of someone from the 6 counties).



Given that the 6 counties are not part of the irish state, and are not directly impacted by our constitution or laws, does it make sense to allow someone from there to take up the role of President?

You make it sound like McAleese commutes down from Newry to work every day, picking up cheap cans and fireworks for people.

Are you obliquely arguing we should restrict 6 county people from citizenship?

bijapos

Its open to all Irish citizens aged 35 or over so technically a person whose parent/s or grandparent/s are Irish but who has never lived or even been here can become President.

Dun

The President has to reside in the 26 counties during his or her presidency, so she or he is under the jurisdiction of Irish law. In fact, I believe s/he has to have governmental permission to leave the country.

ninjasurfer1

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

You make it sound like McAleese commutes down from Newry to work every day, picking up cheap cans and fireworks for people.

:D

wolfpawnat

Dun wrote: »

The President has to reside in the 26 counties during his or her presidency, so she or he is under the jurisdiction of Irish law. In fact, I believe s/he has to have governmental permission to leave the country.

Awkward going home for the weekend so for a nice family Sunday Lunch so :pac:

The President of Ireland is that of all the citizens of Ireland, whether they are in Cork, Dublin, Belfast, or some tiny boreen in Antrim!

If you have citizenship in Ireland, then regardless of your co-ordinates on a GPS on this island, you should be able to vote for the person you want as President!

ninjasurfer1

wolfpawnat wrote: »

If you have citizenship in Ireland, then regardless of your co-ordinates on a GPS on this island, you should be able to vote for the person you want as President!

Even though the (limited) powers of the president only affect those within the irish state?

Some examples:
Referral of bills to the Supreme Court
Refusal of a Dáil dissolution
Abridgement of the time for bills in the Seanad

Also, the current nomination process is to get:

At least 20 members of the Oireachtas;
At least four county or city councils
Themselves (in the case of incumbent or former presidents).

Does anyone know if the four county or city councils include the 6 counties?

OhNoYouDidn't

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

Even though the (limited) powers of the president only affect those within the irish state?

Some examples:
Referral of bills to the Supreme Court
Refusal of a Dáil dissolution
Abridgement of the time for bills in the Seanad

Also, the current nomination process is to get:

At least 20 members of the Oireachtas;
At least four county or city councils
Themselves (in the case of incumbent or former presidents).

Does anyone know if the four county or city councils include the 6 counties?

They don't.

This has been explained to you. You are ignoring it.

Victor

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

Would there not be the possibility of divided allegiances to both the Irish and British constitutions?

Its not as if Johnny Loyalist is going to get nominated / elected.

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

Also, the current nomination process is to get:

At least 20 members of the Oireachtas;
At least four county or city councils
Themselves (in the case of incumbent or former presidents).

Does anyone know if the four county or city councils include the 6 counties?

No. Seeing as they are part of another country. Aberdeen City Council and Aberdeenshire Council aren't allowed nominate either.

nesf

It's already limited to Irish citizens only, that is sufficient.

Sir Oxman

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

(11.2) The President shall receive such emoluments and allowances as may be determined by law.
(11.3) The emoluments and allowances of the President shall not be diminished during his term of office.

Is now not the perfect time to cut the salary and entitlements of the role before a new president takes the office?

This should happen before the election but it won't.
It would be a perfect way to lead by example however the knock on effect to all the other 'top' servants of the state would be too much for them to countenance.

Logically, the salary should be about 100k along with a grand big house, travel and accom catered for and a nice pension afterwards.
I wonder what type of candidate that would attract (possibly a more virtuous type)