Strobist Setup on a Budget?

Curran

Ive been taking quite a few pictures of cars lately with my humble 450D and I have an urge to try a strobist setup similar to this....



I was hoping to keep the budget tight on this - as Ive never used off camera flashes before and was mainly looking to learn about it more before spending money on some of the "better" flashes.

So Ive been looking at the following and was wondering if any of you used the equipment or if youve a similar set up. Advice basically.

Two of YN-460 Flashes - good because it has a 90 degree tilt and 270 degree rotation if I wanted to mount it on the hotshoe on the camera

Two of...Flash Stand

Those stands above have no mounts, so two Mount Brackets

Wireless triggers or maybe theses triggers look a bit better?


So all in Im probably coming in at under 175 euro - granted not a huge amount to spend on photography gear, but Im really only looking to learn the basics before splashing the cash?
Does what Ive suggest look OK, as in, will they be all compatible?

Cheers in advance!

ditpaintball

That setup will get you started nicely. I would also purchase 2 cheap umbrellas for doing portraits to soften the light.

Its the same set up for when I started 2 years ago, but I used the ishoot radio triggers instead: http://www.ukhighland.co.uk/lighting-studio/triggers-sync.html?limit=all

I have a few setup shots on my blog: http://www.richie.ie/category/articles/

Curran

Thanks DIT,
Some of those triggers you linked do look to be far better quality.

The ones I linked are:
£25 for a trigger and two receivers
Or
£42 for trigger and three recievers (that look better quality!)


There doesnt appear to be any "sets" on the page you linked. Just a trigger and receiver - Id need two receivers. What would you recommend, I should pick up? Keeping in mind, Im on a shoe-string budget!
Sorry....new to all this!

ditpaintball

They used to have a set with 1 sender and 3 of the double shotshoe receivers. They were great if you ever needed to fire two flashes.

Although you are on a budget, you do need to spend money if you want to get into strobist type photography.

Curran

Yeah - I can see its an expensive part of photography alright - but sure what part of photography is cheap!
I'll do some more research. Thanks for your help so far!

Curran

Curran wrote: »

Wireless triggers

Only comment I can really make is that the wireless triggers you link to there are the ones I use and I've never had a problem with them (well actually, they're not exactly the same, same brand and appearance, etc. but mine have slots on the side to slide an umbrella into, which is extremely handy, and I got them on ebay for about the same price).


Another good thing about those is that I bought 1 trigger and 2 receivers, but upon buying my third flash, i could easily find an additional receiver on it's own on ebay, so its handy to be able to pick up odd bits and bobs when needed.


One warning, YN flashguns are a great little bit of kit provided you don't go mad with them. I have the YN460II and after a half a dozen flashes it sometimes locks up and wont fire again (its an issue with them flashes thinking they're overheating or something I heard). Now, that said, it's grand if you slow down and plan your shot and take your time, but if you ever want to fire in burst mode or rush things along a bit, they'll shut down on you (in my experience, though apparently I'm not the only one to have this experience).

On top of that, their recycle time (time it takes to charge between flashes) is about 7-10 seconds when they're firing at full power, so they can slow you down a bit, there, too.


Though that said, if you're taking photos of cars, you're probably not gonna be in any rush, anyway.


The other flashguns I use are Metz 48 AF-1 flashes, and I adore them (but a single flash is around €200, so they're expensive compared to Yongnuo).


If you plan to take your time then YN460 is a great gun. Just one tip, though, make sure you're not shooting outside in windy weather, or if you are, make sure you've something/someone to hold your light stands or they'll blow over in the wind.

Curran

Hey KKV, thanks for taking the time to reply in such detail!

I had intended on getting the Canon 430EX II, but then I got thinking that Id need at least two flashes to make any half decent effort...you'd need one to the front of the car and one to the side. So two 430EX's wasnt going to happen. So thats why Im plumbing for the cheap option - to learn the basics and find out if Im any good with them, and then invest in some serious gear!

I had read about the recycle time and I was a bit disappointed with it being so long, but as you say, I dont need to burst and I can take my time doing a car shoot. Snap a shot and then check to see how it came out will be at least 10 seconds anyways - but Ill just have to live with the downside for when Ive the flash on the camera, when Im shooting other things like people or weddings etc.
Noted that I cant give the Yongnuo a hard time! Will also check ebay for the triggers!

Thanks again!

ditpaintball

Your doing it right. The 460 flash is great for the price. I have 3 of them and they work great.

Sure their recycle time slows down once the batteries start to ware, but for their price, you can get 10x of them for the price on one Canon 580EX-II nearly. Their built in optical slave is dead handy too. ( its not great in the sun though)

You have to start some where, start cheap, know your gear then you can spend the big bucks when you need better quality and reliability. I have just upgraded to 580ex's and pocket wizzards because on paid shoots, you need speed, power and reliability.

Curran

ditpaintball wrote: »

I have just upgraded to 580ex's and pocket wizzards because on paid shoots, you need speed, power and reliability.

Yeah - you can justify it! Id love to go out and buy all the stuff, but I dont think Id be able to hide all that from her!


KKV, meant to ask, with those triggers you got, did you have any problems with them not firing on occassions...whats the term the pro's use, dropped shots?

Curran

Curran wrote: »

KKV, meant to ask, with those triggers you got, did you have any problems with them not firing on occassions...whats the term the pro's use, dropped shots?

Not really, no. Once or twice they hadn't fired, but I think that was because my batteries were wearing thin at the time. It was at the same shoot, so I'm blaming the batteries.


Out from that one time, I've had nothing but joy from them. The receivers take two AAA batteries (included) but the trigger has some odd-ball battery already installed in them, so you can't change it (when it dies, no doubt in the middle of something important, you need to buy a new one). So I've been meaning to get an additional trigger, too.


That said, I've been shooting with them for about a year now, I'd say, and no batteries have needed changing, and most of my problems with them not firing were sorted after I shouted abuse at them and then realised they weren't turned on.


Truth be told, everyone has different opinions and experiences with things, but the way that these have performed for me, I'd never, ever upgrade to "professional" ones. Not a hope. These have worked absolutely perfectly for me every single time. I'd never upgrade. If I get a load of paid shoots sometime in future, I'd just buy an additional set of these, rathe than buy pocketwizards or such name brand gear.


Coincidentally, I think these triggers we're talking about are made by Yongnuo (the guys behing the YN flashguns), so I'm surprised their flash has such problems with shutting down and slow recycling, but their triggers are absolutely perfect. Doesn't make sense. Maybe the (wireless) technology is just simpler with triggers?


The triggers also have two channels on them, incase you're ever shooting with someone else who uses them.


If you're ever in Drogheda feel free to give me a bell and you can have a little hands on preview of the YN460II and the triggers before you buy them.

Curran

Thanks again....interesting about the trigger batteries....might buy two triggers and two receivers - have the second trigger spare in case, as you say, they pack in at a critical time!

Suppose you cant really get a better recommendation than the fact you'd buy them again over pocket wizards...as Ive read they are the "standard" in pro trigger/receivers!

ditpaintball

The main problems with these units is batteries and the angle the units are at. Generally, you want the antennas to be parallel to each other, i.e. both pointing up. But since the antennas are internal with these units, its hard to tell.

On the set I had before the pocket wizzards, I opened up the transiever and solderd on a longer antanna. This allowed me to trigger the flashes upto 100 feet away out doors with brand new batteries. But the distance reduced fast as the batteries drained. Google Whack THIS

Curran

Curran wrote: »

Suppose you cant really get a better recommendation than the fact you'd buy them again over pocket wizards...as Ive read they are the "standard" in pro trigger/receivers!

Well I've never actually used PocketWizards, now, but I don't see any upside to them. Maybe they're weather-sealed or waterproof or something? Perhaps their range of use (distance of the receivers from the triggers) is further than that of the Yongnuo triggers?


I don't know, but I do know I've fired off-camera flash that was in a different room (i also tried putting a flash in my sitting room on the ground floor of my house, and went to the opposite side of the house upstairs and had my brother tell me if they fired or not, and they did, so I can't imagine them ever not being flexible enough for me).


There's a member (who doesn't post as much anymore but used to be a well known regular in the photo forum) called TheCageyOne, and I'm sure if you PM'ed him he'd say great things about them, too (it was him who pointed me in their direction).

As I say though, my great experience is just that; mine. There's always the possibility you'll hate them or they won't work or whatever, but I've found most Hong Kong sellers are pretty good at re-sending stuff if it's faulty or paying for the return postage costs and such, so you've not got a lot to lose.

I'd recommend getting the ones with the slot for an umbrella too, as it's handier than buying umbrella mounts and such. Though If you're buying lightstands anyway, I'd suggest the Amazon bundle suggestion on the lightstand page (Lightstand + umbrella + bracket/mount for umbrella) as it then qualifies for free shipping and you'll definitely use the imbrellas if you get into portraiture or products (or anything that requires soft lighting).


And again, If you're ever in Drogheda, I'd be happy to let you spend a bit of time playing with off camera flash, using my flashguns and triggers, so you can have an idea what you'll be getting before you buy it and such (but ultimately, 2 YN460s, Lightstand and YN triggers, and you're laughing for a solid beginner set up).

Curran

ditpaintball wrote: »

On the set I had before the pocket wizzards, I opened up the transiever and solderd on a longer antanna. This allowed me to trigger the flashes upto 100 feet away out doors with brand new batteries. But the distance reduced fast as the batteries drained.

Interesting... thanks for that, noted that if they are acting up that the antanna may be the problem!
Handy mod to improve the easy of use!! :cool:

Curran

KKV,

Would these be the ones you got?
If not, would you, when you get a chance, no rush, be able to PM on the model number of the ones you have? Would make it easier to track them down!

That's the ones. I think i bought my original ones, and then the additional receiver, off two different ebay sellers.

I can't find the original purchase (1 trigger, two receivers) but here's the link to the one receiver i bought when I got my additional flash;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190546277905


And here's the same seller (whose name is familiar to me, linkdelight, so I think I've used him a few times) selling the pack of 2 receivers and 1 trigger;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-channel-Hot-Shoe-Flashgun-Trigger-2-Receivers-T3E-/370353619485?pt=UK_Photography_StudioEquipment_RL&hash=item563acbc21d



This is embarrassing, considering what I said a few minutes ago about being able to buy odd bits and bots here and there, but I can't actually seem to find a trigger on it's own off him, it has to come with a receiver. So If you want two triggers and two receivers, you'd probably be best to buy two of these;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Channel-Flash-Trigger-PT-04-NE-Canon-580EX-II-T1E-/190562472972?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_CameraAccessories_CameraFlashUnits_JN&hash=item2c5e68940c



It's also worth noting you get a sync cord with these, too, so you can plug the trigger into the side of your camera (depending what camera you're using, and whether it has a snc plug socket) so you can free up your hot shoe to use use on-camera flash aswell as off-camera (or a bubble-level, or whatever other hot-shoe accessory you want).


Also, not sure if this is relevant or not, but the triggers don't have a power button. They always seem to be on when you press the button to test fire them (or fire them on the camera) so I assume they just turn themselves off when not in use. As I say, mine are still going strong about a year later, so I've no issues with batteries dying or anything.


EDIT: Also, remember, you're getting free shipping on these (well, obviously it's worked into the price, so you're paying for it anyway, but you know what I mean). If you can avoid it, don't buy everything at once. If you make separate purchases, they'll send them separately, meaning you'll not get a letter from customs asking to declare a value over €22 or €23 (or whatever it is). Two separate purchases of the '1 receiver and 1 trigger' pack, comes to £11.50 each(?), so customs won't stop it.

Buying your Flashguns from Amazon means it's unlikely they'll get stopped, too (mine didn't, anyway, though I'm not sure if it was sent from the UK or Hong Kong).

Curran

Once again, I appreicate the lenghty reply - very helpful.

You're more than welcome. Let us know how you get on with your new bits and pieces when you get sorted