Penalty points: good idea, but too extreme?

vector

As speeding is the most common offence that is my interest....

No one wants another thread on fish in a barrell, or just 10kph over, but there are some things slightly wrong with penalty points.

Duration:
3 years: wouldn't 2 or 1 be enough?


Number of points:
Surely every offence should be 1 point,
we need not worry that idiots will enjoy a free ride, they might eventually reach 12 and be off the road for a while

Cost:
Speedings costs EUR 80: wouldn't EUR 60 be enough?

Cost:
It could be argued there should be NO direct fine, as drives will end up paying more for car insurance anyway... so the driver feels his wallet shrink... and suffers... which is the goal... indeed thanks to VAT and the insurance levy the Govt enjoy some of the higher premium

Cost:
You don't even get a free post envelope to send the form back, so there's another 0.55 cents

Ardennes1944

Have you been caught speeding of late OP?

Wats_in_a_name

vector wrote: »

Number of points:[/B]
Surely every offence should be 1 point,

Would love to hear you logic for that.

BronsonTB

OP: Think you might be missing the point....Do understand where you are coming from but 'the powers that be' want you to slow down & get as much out of you as possible at the same time...
The 3 years are so you are punished & slow down
& 80 euro fine helps keep they're coffers topped up.

Reducing both ie 1 year & 60 euro would of course have less desired effect...

Also most insurance companies allow for 2 points without addional loading...

They don't want everyone getting banned either...just enough to keep the money rolling in & good PR on the safety side.

vector

Deutschlandfürimmer7 wrote: »

Have you been caught speeding of late OP?

LOL, and hence my suddent interest, not quite, my other half got the letter in the post for doing 110kmph on a 100kmph National road

Berty

How do you discourage people from doing something if you don't penalise them for it?

You cannot simply trust Joe Public to know what's best for him/her?

Gophur

The Penalty Points system is deeply flawed.

Three examples

5 points for not having an NCT (irrelevant whether the car is roadworthy or not)

3 points for Driving vehicle before remedying dangerous defect

2 points for Driving a vehicle on a motorway against the flow of traffic

http://penaltypoints.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart.pdf

And, how about the 2 point penalty for having the cheek to challenge any speeding trap penalty in Court? (Don't even bother saying it's a 4 point penalty with a 50% reduction for acceptance)

Anan1

vector wrote: »

As speeding is the most common offence that is my interest....

No one wants another thread on fish in a barrell, or just 10kph over, but there are some things slightly wrong with penalty points.

Duration:
3 years: wouldn't 2 or 1 be enough?


Number of points:
Surely every offence should be 1 point,
we need not worry that idiots will enjoy a free ride, they might eventually reach 12 and be off the road for a while

I've no interest in sharing the roads with the kind of driver who clocks up 12 points under the current system. Your proposal will allow these (and worse) drivers to continue to drive. Is that really what you want?

vector wrote: »

Cost:
Speedings costs EUR 80: wouldn't EUR 60 be enough?

Cost:
It could be argued there should be NO direct fine, as drives will end up paying more for car insurance anyway... so the driver feels his wallet shrink... and suffers... which is the goal... indeed thanks to VAT and the insurance levy the Govt enjoy some of the higher premium

Cost:
You don't even get a free post envelope to send the form back, so there's another 0.55 cents

How would you make up for this lost income? AFAIK fines are already insufficient to cover the cost of detection - do you really want Joe taxpayer to be presented with an even bigger bill?

seamus

vector wrote: »

Duration:
3 years: wouldn't 2 or 1 be enough?


Number of points:
Surely every offence should be 1 point,
we need not worry that idiots will enjoy a free ride, they might eventually reach 12 and be off the road for a while

Taking these two together, you would basically be requiring that a person would need to be caught speeding 12 times in two years - once every two months before we put them off the road.

Sounds unnecessarily lenient to me. Simple offences - speeding, failure to obey road markings, etc - are the kinds of things that almost every gets caught for, the odd time. Perhaps once or twice every ten years.

If someone has been caught speeding 6 times in the space of 3 years, there are two possible explanations:

1. They are extremely unlucky
2. They're a gobsh*te

And I don't believe in luck.

Cost:
Speedings costs EUR 80: wouldn't EUR 60 be enough?

Cost:
It could be argued there should be NO direct fine, as drives will end up paying more for car insurance anyway... so the driver feels his wallet shrink... and suffers... which is the goal... indeed thanks to VAT and the insurance levy the Govt enjoy some of the higher premium

Cost:
You don't even get a free post envelope to send the form back, so there's another 0.55 cents

Why should the state have to pay for an envelope or indeed anything, when you're the one who's been caught speeding? €80 is just about right. Big enough for most people to feel the pain, small enough to not cripple anyone's finances.
Most insurance premiums don't increase until you go past your second speeding offence in 3 years.
And if you do, then you're probably a very sloppy or downright poor driver, so you deserve to have your premium upped.

Some offences need changing. No NCT 5 points is taking the piss. Driving on the wrong side of the road 1 point is taking the piss.

alias no.9

The current system allows for 1 speeding offence per year without going more than half way to a ban, you've got plenty of warning to adjust your driving style.

I'd much prefer a system where speeding offences were dealt with on the spot as I believe that the offender will link the offence to the punishment rather than the kind of exasperated gasp that can be expected when someone gets a letter in the post and they wonder, was I even there that day?

What's totally wrong about the current system is the narrow focus on speeding. Very few of the other offences are policed, not to mind the miserable 2 points for driving the wrong way down a motorway, that should be an instant 6 point offence.

Guy:Incognito

alias no.9 wrote: »

I'd much prefer a system where speeding offences were dealt with on the spot as I believe that the offender will link the offence to the punishment rather than the kind of exasperated gasp that can be expected when someone gets a letter in the post and they wonder, was I even there that day?
.

To have an effect youd have to dedicate a hell of a lot of Garda man hours to doing manual speed checks. The best thing about automating it s that they can be off doing other things.In fact not enough of their job is automated or farmed out. The Garda stations should be manned by civilians as much as possible. Paperwork and all should be done by a civilian in an office.

It's not possibel to automate other aspects of their jobs so the parst that can be, should be. A camera can catch people speeding, jumping red lights, driving in bus lanes, just as well as a garda bing there.

alias no.9 wrote: »

What's totally wrong about the current system is the narrow focus on speeding. Very few of the other offences are policed, not to mind the miserable 2 points for driving the wrong way down a motorway, that should be an instant 6 point offence.

Do peope caught doing that ever escape court? I dont think its a simple case of await 2 points int he post.

ted1

3 years is a killer,

i do approx 70,000 km a year, so it 3 years i will drive 210,000 km
the average distance is 12,500 so three years is 47,500km


there should be a distance factor addded in for people who travel well above average distances.

if the average person get points 2 points every 100,000 km i;m at a complete disadvantage. as my points will clock up much sooner than soem one with less distance

CiniO

vector wrote: »

As speeding is the most common offence that is my interest....

No one wants another thread on fish in a barrell, or just 10kph over, but there are some things slightly wrong with penalty points.

Duration:
3 years: wouldn't 2 or 1 be enough?


Number of points:
Surely every offence should be 1 point,
we need not worry that idiots will enjoy a free ride, they might eventually reach 12 and be off the road for a while

Cost:
Speedings costs EUR 80: wouldn't EUR 60 be enough?

Cost:
It could be argued there should be NO direct fine, as drives will end up paying more for car insurance anyway... so the driver feels his wallet shrink... and suffers... which is the goal... indeed thanks to VAT and the insurance levy the Govt enjoy some of the higher premium

Cost:
You don't even get a free post envelope to send the form back, so there's another 0.55 cents

If it was like you propose (points erasing every year, and only 1 point for speeding) you could be caught speeding once a months all the time without any consequences. That's mad idea.


What I think, penalties for speeding should be graduated.
For example:
Up to 10% over speed limit - no points and no penalty.
Between 10% and 20% over speed limit - 1 point and 50euros fine.
Between 20% and 30% over speed limit - 2 points and 100 euros fine.
Between 30% and 40% over speed limit - 4 points and 200 euros fine.
Between 40% and 50% over speed limit - 10 points and 500 euros fine.
Over 50% over speed limit - instatnt driving ban a year.

That would be a reasonable solution in my opinion.

Beside they should probably make speed traps more equal over the country.
F.e - If I drove the same way around Dublin, like I drive in Mayo, I would probably colected over 100 points in the last year. But because I live and drive mostly in Mayo I have none.

Henry Ford III

I think the current system is ok. I got to 4 points and just slowed down a bit after that.

p.s. 0 points now

Anan1

ted1 wrote: »

3 years is a killer,

i do approx 70,000 km a year, so it 3 years i will drive 210,000 km
the average distance is 12,500 so three years is 47,500km


there should be a distance factor addded in for people who travel well above average distances.

if the average person get points 2 points every 100,000 km i;m at a complete disadvantage. as my points will clock up much sooner than soem one with less distance

At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, you'll only get points if you commit RTA offences.