Will she be ok?

LegacyUser

Hi All

I will try to keep this a brief as possible.

I was unhappily married for 20 years. I muddled my way through.
A couple of years ago-I had a medical procedure done, and searched the web for some advice and reassurance.
Of course that brought me to a support board/forum.

Over the course of 2 years I started PM'ing a member. As time went on the PM's became a tad more personal.
She was also in a bad marriage.
WE decided we would advice our spouses of our intention to both divorce our spouses.
We never met in person or webcam or anything prior to this notification.

We finally met a couple of years ago.
We hit it off pretty well.

Issues:-she has kids (12&13) I have none.
She lives in a different country.
I have a job-she does not.
She has many health issues
She does not drive.

She made the extremely hard decision to let dad have custody. They get along great, just can't stand being married to each other. In other words she can see the kids anytime she wants. (Leaving her kids was a Major issue for all involved (family) except us). She talks or Skype’s the kids 5 or 6 times a day and is as much a part of their lives now as when she was home. She lived downstairs-dad and kids lived upstairs. Kids would come down but basically stayed upstairs. She goes back to see them and usually stays 4 weeks.

So she sacrificed her entire life to be with me.
We do get along for the most part, but I don't feel IT!
I have officially broken up with her twice, and both times gave in to her tears and fears as quickly as I had broken up with her. (Wuss) Even saw a therapist who said I had the right to break things off.

Even know I don't feel IT. (you know that love feeling you get)I not only took her back, but actually proposed to her at Christmas time. She absolutely loves the ring. I truly sometimes think she likes the ring more than me.lol

We do have fun together. We do laugh, we do have sex. Not so much hugging and cuddling.

So basically it comes down to this:
If I now decide to break things off, so the next 20 yrs are not like the last 20 yrs (I am 51), she is in a foreign country, with no money, no place to live.
She can return to her country, but still have no money, and no place to live.
Her parents are both deceased and she really has nobody to take her in. I live paycheck to paycheck just to pay rent and bills, so I will not be able to support her.
I feel like I have led her on, although she is well aware I have issues with us.

How the bleep can I do that to her?
If I had stuck to my guns either time I broke up, this would all be in the past, she would have never moved.

So on one hand-I can survive the rest of my life again muddling through life, or I can break up and have a chance at a happy life.

On the other hand-how can I do that to her?

I would love to hear opinions going both ways.
(sorry for length.)

Distorted

Are you asking if you should stay with someone out of guilt and fear for their future? I would say no, unless you have been with them for an extremely long time or you owe them somehow. Some things that stand out from your post:

a concerned fiance wrote: »

Issues:-she has kids (12&13) I have none.
She lives in a different country.
I have a job-she does not.
She has many health issues
She does not drive.

These are the things that are important to YOU. Why can she not find a job/learn to drive? You must have known these things about her before you got together though, so why did it not stop you then if its so important to you now?

a concerned fiance wrote: »

So she sacrificed her entire life to be with me.

That was her choice.

a concerned fiance wrote: »

If I now decide to break things off, so the next 20 yrs are not like the last 20 yrs (I am 51), she is in a foreign country, with no money, no place to live.
She can return to her country, but still have no money, and no place to live.
Her parents are both deceased and she really has nobody to take her in.

Again, thats really up to her. She is responsible for making of her life what she does.

I don't know if you realised, but it struck me how similar the two of you are. You were with someone for 20 years and broke it off because presumably it was unsatisfactory, and straight away you ended up in a relationship with someone you feel exactly the same about. Do you think maybe that is the way you are, or do you still realistically hope to meet the love of your life now (bearing in mind a lot of women in your age range will have kids and might be housewives - I'm guessing there are not a lot of lively, single career women to go round, although there might be a few).

For what its worth, I think you are right to hope for something more, but I think you should also be realistic. You might end up with a succession of these unsatisfactory relationships. But you certainly don't sound happy in this one!

Ickle Magoo

While I can see you don't want to be the bad guy - I really can't understand why you are walking eyes-wide-open into another relationship that is going to make you miserable. While she may have given up things to be with you, ultimately that was her decision and she wasn't happy in her relationship anyway - you are not now responsible for this woman and her happiness. You are, however, entirely responsible for your own so if you aren't in love and don't want to be with this woman, then you only have one option - and no amount of tears and tantrums should dissuade you from making your own happiness a priority here.

I can't believe you broke it off, know you don't love her and then threw a rock at her anyway - could it be you are just getting the jitters?

LegacyUser

Thank you Distorted for responding so quickly.

We have only been going out for 2 years plus a couple months.

Yes I did know these factors prior to meeting her.
She can't work due to health reasons.
She can drive in emergency, she says, but I've yet to see it.

Yes these things are important to me.
After the 2nd breakup, I added some conditions for getting back together. Haven't seen any real changes yet.

I know it was her choice, but doesn't change the facts.

You were very close. The sad thing is she is more similar to my ex than she is with me.
But one of the main reasons I gave it a shot is because she swore she would be different towards family and outings. I was constantly making up excuses for why my ex did not come with me.
Now my fiancé has done several skip outs in the last month. In fact I feel the vibes of another "I'm so tired" type excuses tonight.

Many people tried to tell me I was going straight from "out of the frying pan into the fire", and I did know that in the back of my mind, but hoped it would be different.

Honestly-I am not worried about finding the love of my life now.
And I don't mind kids, but the different country thing adds many complications.
There is really nothing I did not know coming into the relationship, but I thought the fact that she was so head over heels about me, more than anyone has ever been, that things would work themselves out.
Not we are always saying, "We will just deal with it" as issue after issue arises. I want a much simpler life now.
I realize I could have refrained from getting involves in this relationship, and I really have nobody to blame but myself. That is where the whole conundrum arises. Would I be a total jerk by leaving her?, or actually having her leave me. I wouldn't need to move.

Thanks again for your reply.

Oh-I don't plan on having a succession of bad relationships. I like myself, and being by myself, so I think I would be just fine on my own.

annascott

Sorry to hear that you are going through this. I am a little confused though. In two of your posts you refer to her living in a different country. If that is the case, it will be much easier for you to break up with her.

Another thing that strikes me is the fact that she left her children to live downstairs and her husband has custody. This sets alarm bells ringing and screams 'unstable' to me.

If the children have a stable home life with their father, you can get rid of her without worrying too much about the consequences. If I have misread and she is living with you, maybe help her with the deposit to get herself a room in a shared house somewhere.

Next time, don't propose to someone who you don't have feelings for. (No judgement)

Distorted

a concerned fiance wrote: »

The sad thing is she is more similar to my ex than she is with me.

Its often the case that we are attracted to similar people over and over again. It must be frustrating to have no-one to go to events with, if they are always likely to be "too tired".

a concerned fiance wrote: »

Oh-I don't plan on having a succession of bad relationships. I like myself, and being by myself, so I think I would be just fine on my own.

If you feel like that, its probably a sign you should end the relationship. It would be better to do it now than in say 5 years time. If you do feel guilty, or in some way responsible for her (which I don't think you should actually), the suggestion above of helping her with the deposit for somewhere to rent and travelling costs perhaps is a good one. I wonder whether she will try to go back to her ex-husband. Honestly though, if she lives abroad, there is no reason why she shouldn't look for paid employment to support herself - plenty of people with health problems and disabilities do work.

StillWaters

I'm not clear OP, is she still living in a different country, or did she leave her two children and move here to be with you?

Either way, you both seem to have used each other as crutches to get out of unhappy relalionships. In the normal course of events, you would have had the rebound, broken up and now be doing the healing needed following the breakdown of your initial marriages, perhaps in time meeting someone who you do feel IT with.

Your Therapist was correct, you do have right to end the relationship. You owe her kindness, and perhaps financial help to get back to her home country, but you do not owe her sacrificing your future happiness for her neediness.

Distorted - there are lots of single, separated, widowed youthful lively 40+ women out there, but OP needs to do a lot of soul searching before entering that dating scene.

a concerned fiance

Thanks again for your thoughts

I will try to respond to most of the major comments, but it is difficult at work and obviously even more difficult from home.

One quick answer is she does live with me most of the time except when she goes back to her home country. In fact she is leaving Sunday for 4 weeks. I will try to keep touch with this thread, but in case I don't get a good opportunity, I will have plenty of time starting Sunday.

Thanks again.

Emme

a concerned fiance wrote: »

Issues:-she has kids (12&13)
She lived downstairs-dad and kids lived upstairs.
She lives in a different country.
I have a job-she does not.
She has many health issues
She does not drive.

Sorry OP, but as some other people have said, all of the above suggests to me that this woman may be unstable.

a concerned fiance wrote: »

Even know I don't feel IT. (you know that love feeling you get)I not only took her back, but actually proposed to her at Christmas time.

So you proposed to her out of guilt because you took her away from her husband, children and home country and she had nowhere else to go. But you don't feel IT (whatever that is). Not a great foundation for a marriage. You're after getting out of a bad marriage that lasted 20 years, do you want another 20 years of the same with this woman?

a concerned fiance wrote: »

She absolutely loves the ring. I truly sometimes think she likes the ring more than me.

That would start alarm bells ringing in a big way. You may not be seriously rich, but do you support her financially when she stays with you? What would happen if you lost your job or couldn't work? She wouldn't be able to work or support you if she has health issues and can't drive.

Most single women in Ireland would expect to work and support themselves in a relationship. This woman's expectations seem totally unrealistic to me, or do you want to be her carer?

a concerned fiance wrote: »

So basically it comes down to this:
If I now decide to break things off, so the next 20 yrs are not like the last 20 yrs (I am 51), she is in a foreign country, with no money, no place to live. She can return to her country, but still have no money, and no place to live.

I think you will have to be selfish OP. Think of yourself and don't rush into another relationship so quickly. There are lots of lovely women out there that you can date who are strong, stable, independent and self-supporting.

a concerned fiance

Just returning from dropping her off at airport and seeing her off on her trip back to her country. Sorry about my vagueness, perhaps I will reveal more details once I feel a bit more comfortable here.

Figures we just had several nice days in a row. I have been even keeled though in my speaking and actions. I knew I had this month to do some serious thinking.

Since I had to get up at 5:00 am to get her to airport, I can barely see straight. I will return this evening and try to address some of the issues that have been brought up.

_mocha_

You really don't sound happy in this relationship.
To be honest, it sounds like she has a bit of a free ride.
And this,

I truly sometimes think she likes the ring more than me.

is not a good sign!

You're supporting her. That's not fair on anyone to

live paycheck to paycheck just to pay rent and bills

What is she giving you?

Leaving her family to be with you, as someone said above, was HER choice. And it was an irresponsible choice. The fact that she has no money, nowhere to live etc, is entirely her fault. She's a grown woman with children. She should know better than to get herself into a situation like that. And you have to realise that YOU aren't responsible for her.

You can't stay with someone out of a sense of duty, whether or not they are prepared to accept it. If you want "IT", it doesn't sound like you're going to find it with her.

I can survive the rest of my life again muddling through life, or I can break up and have a chance at a happy life

You pretty much answered your own question here.
Why should you sacrifice your happiness, because she's irresponsible? It sounds like she just landed herself on you, and expected you to do everything for her from there on out.

As other replies have stated, she does sound unstable.

I think you just have to bite the bullet. Stop feeling responsible for her, she's a grown woman and got herself into this mess. If you don't have "it" with her, you're just wasting your time. It really sounds like you're being taken advantage of.

a concerned fiance

I had a great post ready to go-with quotes and everything-trying to address some of your concerns, but I lost it somehow.

Everybody appears to be saying the same things anyway.

Both times I broke up with her-I did it over the phone. I know not cool. I swear she can hear it in my voice that something is just not right. She keeps asking if everything is all right. I'm saying yes for now.

I have a feeling she will soon be asking if I plan on "dumping" her again. Dumping is the only way she refers to my 2 previous attempts. So do I tell her "no" for the sake of not doing it over the phone again?
I am scheduled to see her at the end of this month in her country and she is to ride back with me. (Hint)

She has worked hard and has been extremely helpful in the move from the old place to new place. She does cook and clean and laundry. She is not a bad person, I simply don't love her like I should if I'm going to marry her. I've told her this in the past.

I don't believe I ever started one conversation relating to wedding or marriage.

Gosh-I get a stomach ache just thinking about it. (the breakup that is).
I know I need to do it, but even though you all say "she made all her choices and I am not responsible for them", I can't help but think that I did have a hand in her decisions (at least to this point) by going along with everything and leading on that I concur with all her plans.

I am totally hung up on the guilt thing along with the pure devistation this will cause her.

That's all I got for now.
Thanks

inexperienced

op, break up for both of you. you are not just breaking up for yourself, you break up because you know she deserves a man who loves her as well. next time, please, may you take things very slowly if you are not sure your feelings towards the person. i really dont understand why you could allow her to move to your country and live with you if you were not sure your feelings to her.

if she asks you whether you are going to dump her on the phone, just tell her that what you are thinking : it's not who dump whom, but it's about the relationship between us. tell her you have serious doubts about the relationship and would like her to do some thinking too before you guys meet up. dont talk with her if she goes crazy and her to calm down and you will call back something like that.

i am not experienced in man/woman relationship but i do believe honest communication without judgement would be the best solution. cheers!

a concerned fiance

Thanks inexperienced

I let her move with me mostly because I am a wuss and a softy.
Yes I know that this is a pretty major decision regarding the rest of my life, but I still just let it happen.

It was our gameplan from when we started PMing and even with 2 interuptions, I just allowed it to happen.

I am a man without a spine is what I am. I allow people to walk all over me, and I sure that's a trait that was not lost on her or my ex.

At least I will try and stop things from going any further and causing more harm.

Distorted

You sound like your head's all over the place OP. I think you feel better if you could make a decision and stick to it. Is this what happened in your previous relationship as well, and then you were stuck with the "wrong" woman for so many years? Its actually kinder to break up with someone properly than attempt to do so multiple times and then back out. You need more than someone cooking and cleaning to make a relationship work. You have serious doubts and it doesn't sound like they will go away. You shouldn't let your guilt trick you into thinking you are responsible for this woman. Women do have careers and look after themselves, even those with health problems. She has to take responsibility for herself, not guilt you into it.

inexperienced

OP, I think you need to put the self blame and the guilt aside and do the right thing. as distorted say, it's actually kinder to break up properly and never go back.

If you are 100% percent sure that break up is the best, break it up and never look back. Yes, to her, you will be a bad person but she will thank you later when she meets the right guy who loves her.

If you are not 100% percent sure, then, for the sake of the ? %, try some counselling with her or whatever see whether the relationship can be saved or help move on properly.

As other said, no matter how you allowed things to happen, it's her final decision she herself made to come over. Even people in marriage would break up. Nothing is guranteed and as an adult she should know this.

All the best. And I wish you can learn from these two failed relationship and make the next one work.

Cheers!

LegacyUser

Look, stop stringing her along. Man up and cut the prevaricating.

She is going to be hurt and you are going to have to accept that. It can't be avoided.

You are deluding yourself that you are trying to spare her feelings. In fact you are messing her around because YOU FEEL GUILTY. Stop being so selfish. Make a clean break.

It's never ideal breaking up over the phone but compared to the way you are stretching out the decision in a slow painful death, well doing it over the phone is probably the lesser of two evils. At least if you tell her when she is her home country she will have some friends and family around her and she can organise herself. What she wants to do.

There is no right way to break up with someone. She will be hurt but you need to sort this out sooner rather than later. If you feel that bad let her keep the ring. But for Gods sakes please stop dithering and playing with the womans feelings this way.

Sort yourself out and enough of the melodrama.

a concerned fiance

Distorted wrote: »

You sound like your head's all over the place OP.

You nailed that, Distorted.

inexperienced wrote: »

OP, I think you need to put the self blame and the guilt aside and do the right thing.
Cheers!

You are correct. Unfortunately I grew up in an atmosphere where guilt was the norm.

As far a counseling-do you think I owe it to her to go to counseling even though I don't think I will discover that I really do love her?
She kept throwing "don't I get a say if we are going to breakup or not" in my face. I'm guessing no. lol

LegacyUser

a concerned fiance wrote: »

You are correct. Unfortunately I grew up in an atmosphere where guilt was the norm.

Yeh, well didn't we all. That is just an excuse. You need to get over your guilt and stop stringing the woman along.

a concerned fiance wrote: »

She kept throwing "don't I get a say if we are going to breakup or not" in my face. I'm guessing no. lol

It's not funny though is it. It doesn't matter what she throws in your face. You need to stop playing with someone elses life. I'm not sure if I'm misreading your posts but it's almost like you are enjoying the drama and attention?

If that is the case, stop. It's not right to play games with someone elses feelings.

inexperienced

ah, OP, you are a grown up man, please take your own responsibility too and yes, our family background does influence us, but you are an adult and you should have full responsibility of your own life now. you can choose how to live your life.

if you find uneasy with your past, maybe some counselling will help you. i went to have counselling a few times myself and i found it's very good experience.

from the sound of it, you are quite sure you dont love this woman. then just tell her you dont love her and keep repeating if she keeps asking and tell her that it's for the good of both of you. tell her that you want her to be loved properly by a man that deserves her love and affection.

i think you owe her a trip to break up with her face to face. fly to her country and do the break-up. dont sleep with her or dont sleep in her place. sort out your accommodation there and do the break up and leave the country.

cheers!

a concerned fiance

man up out of that wrote: »

I'm not sure if I'm misreading your posts but it's almost like you are enjoying the drama and attention?

There is Nothing enjoyable about the situation!! :cool:

a concerned fiance

After agonizing all weekend-and doing some extremely serious soul searching.

It always comes down to the same thing-I am not in love with her.

Yes I must tell her and stop dragging this out and the the other terms and phrases used in this thread.

Facts:
I can't see her until end of month
I must talk with her several times a day
I don't want to inform her over the phone again.

Should I try my best to keep calls as light as possible?
Should I tell her over phone?
Wait until I see her?

Other suggestions please

inexperienced

if i were you, i would keep it light on phone but i would not pretend that i was very happy eager to talk with her neither. if she senses something's wrong and asks, tell her you are having serious thoughts lately about the relationship, but insist to talk with her in person when you meet her.

StillWaters

I think dragging this out is cruel. I would normally be against ending a relationship by phone, but this is an exceptional case.

I think you should finish it over the telephone, be clear, but kind. Also have a plan ready for her to collect her stuff.

a concerned fiance

inexperienced wrote: »

if i were you, i would keep it light on phone but i would not pretend that i was very happy eager to talk with her neither. if she senses something's wrong and asks, tell her you are having serious thoughts lately about the relationship, but insist to talk with her in person when you meet her.

OK-perfect answer.
Only 1 issue with that
Her kids have been promised something very important and something they have been looking forward to for a couple of months.

So I am trying to play it cool on the phone, but I could tell that she could tell something was on my mind.

If I can hold out 3 weeks, then the kids get to have their special day, and then I will be face to face with her for the "talk"

The super difficult part is when she says I love you and waits for my response. So I've just been saying "love you too".

I know that is part of the entire cruel dragging her along theme, but if I tell her now we need to talk-it's all over. The kids did nothing wrong and deserve to have their special day.

I realize it is not fair to her, but what is 3 weeks in the scheme of things, and her kids will have a great day.

Standman

a concerned fiance wrote: »

OK-perfect answer.
Only 1 issue with that
Her kids have been promised something very important and something they have been looking forward to for a couple of months.

So I am trying to play it cool on the phone, but I could tell that she could tell something was on my mind.

If I can hold out 3 weeks, then the kids get to have their special day, and then I will be face to face with her for the "talk"

The super difficult part is when she says I love you and waits for my response. So I've just been saying "love you too".

I know that is part of the entire cruel dragging her along theme, but if I tell her now we need to talk-it's all over. The kids did nothing wrong and deserve to have their special day.

I realize it is not fair to her, but what is 3 weeks in the scheme of things, and her kids will have a great day.

Are you really stringing it along for the kids sake, or is it because you don't want to face up to this uncomfortable situation right now and are just procrastinating?

The fact is there will never be a "good" time to break up with her, whether its over the phone or not. Just do it and get it over with.

I was in a somewhat similar situation where I stayed with a girlfriend for a lot longer than I should have out of guilt and self delusion. I always had an excuse for putting off the break up eg "oh it's too close to christmas" or "Maybe I really do love her" etc.. Your going to have to accept the fact that she will be very upset and you have to just deal with that. In the end you will feel much better about yourself for finally being honest with her.

a concerned fiance

Standman wrote: »

I was in a somewhat similar situation where I stayed with a girlfriend for a lot longer than I should have out of guilt and self delusion. I always had an excuse for putting off the break up eg "oh it's too close to christmas" or "Maybe I really do love her" etc.. Your going to have to accept the fact that she will be very upset and you have to just deal with that. In the end you will feel much better about yourself for finally being honest with her.

Standman, how did you decide for sure that you really don't love her?

I'm just totally freakin' out.
She's gonna guilt me out like nobody's business.

Does Skype make things more face to face than just telephone?

I guess I am a little scared about being on my own. Yes I enjoy time by myself, but am I equipped for truly being on my own?

Thanks for taking time out to weigh in on my procrastination ride.

looky loo

So you're afraid to be alone, you're not in love with this woman and you want a guilt free out.........never going to happen. End it, what you are doing to this woman is horrible, I doubt she knows whether she is coming or going with you.

Esoteric_

I've been reading this whole thread and at the start, I really felt for you and I agree with the others that this woman does sound a bit unstable. However, as I read on, I feel for her more than I do for you. At this stage, you're taking the p!ss by not ending it. Saying you love her too on the phone is just downright cruel since as soon as she gets back you'll basically be telling her that that was a lie.

She's bound to know that something's wrong and by not ending it now, you're being absolutely horrible to her. No matter what silly choices she made, she doesn't deserve to be strung along, which is what you are doing to her right now. Stop making excuses, man up and end it. The more you mess with her head (which, let's be honest, is exactly what you're doing right now because you're afraid), the more she'll be hurt. For HER sake, forget your fears and worries and break up with her.

LegacyUser

a concerned fiance wrote: »

I guess I am a little scared about being on my own. Yes I enjoy time by myself, but am I equipped for truly being on my own?

Oh, for pitys sake. Stop navel gazing. Whether you are equipped to be on your own is not her problem. If you have to question whether you love somone then the answer is; you don't.

You can't use the woman because you are too lazy and ineffectual to be on your own. You are 51 not 15. Let her go and stop being so selfish. Honestly, it's cowardly and deeply unattractive.

Emme

When I first read your posts I felt sorry for you, now you're coming across as cowardly and callous. Are you more afraid of how she'll suffer when you finish things or how you'll suffer when you see her reaction? It seems that you're more afraid of suffering yourself from her reaction.

You'll have no problem finding anyone else if you finish it (50 something men are a rare and treasured commodity in Ireland) so you needn't worry about that end of things. However I think you might be afraid of a strong self-sufficient woman and you prefer to stay vacillating in this relationship even if you don't love the woman.

You have to decide what you want and put your decision into action. Man up and tell her it's over or else stay with her and be her carer regardless of whether the relationship makes you happy or not.

a concerned fiance

I told her over skype

She hung up immediately

She called back with just 1 question
Can she still come back with me-seperate rooms-for a short time while she tries to figure out her life?

I told her yes-We will have a nice 10 hour drive to talk and discuss whatever subject comes up.

At this moment I am still of the mind that I take the kids for their special day.

I would-at the appropriate time-like to remain friends.

Just an FYI-I am currently miserable

Emme

a concerned fiance wrote: »

I told her over skype. She hung up immediately.

Well done telling her.

a concerned fiance wrote: »

She called back with just 1 question. Can she still come back with me-seperate rooms-for a short time while she tries to figure out her life?

She will be trying to figure out her life indefinitely. This woman will not go easily, she will hang on every which way for as long as you let her.

a concerned fiance wrote: »

I told her yes-We will have a nice 10 hour drive to talk and discuss whatever subject comes up.

Let her stay in separate rooms for a finite period if you wish but I guarantee you she will get sick or something will happen her that forces her to stay with you for longer. Or she will do her best to seduce you (and probably succeed) and you will take her back against your better judgement. Despite this woman's apparent incapacitation, she is the one who probably has more power in your relationship.

a concerned fiance wrote: »

At this moment I am still of the mind that I take the kids for their special day. I would-at the appropriate time-like to remain friends.

I don't honestly think it will be possible to remain friends with this woman. She doesn't seem like the type who will remain friends despite wanting to come over and stay in separate rooms. She seems to be taking advantage of your good nature. A clean break is best in my opinion.

a concerned fiance wrote: »

Just an FYI-I am currently miserable

Of course you are, because she has wound you around her finger again and you are no closer to freedom.

a concerned fiance

Emme wrote: »

Well done telling her.



She will be trying to figure out her life indefinitely. This woman will not go easily, she will hang on every which way for as long as you let her.



Let her stay in separate rooms for a finite period if you wish but I guarantee you she will get sick or something will happen her that forces her to stay with you for longer. Or she will do her best to seduce you (and probably succeed) and you will take her back against your better judgement. Despite this woman's apparent incapacitation, she is the one who probably has more power in your relationship.





I don't honestly think it will be possible to remain friends with this woman. She doesn't seem like the type who will remain friends despite wanting to come over and stay in separate rooms. She seems to be taking advantage of your good nature. A clean break is best in my opinion.



Of course you are, because she has wound you around her finger again and you are no closer to freedom.

Ouch!

LegacyUser

a concerned fiance wrote: »

I told her over skype

She hung up immediately

So far, so good.

a concerned fiance wrote: »

She called back with just 1 question
Can she still come back with me-seperate rooms-for a short time while she tries to figure out her life?

Oh here we go! How suprising, not.

a concerned fiance wrote: »

I told her yes-

What? Why? Why did you do that?

a concerned fiance wrote: »

We will have a nice 10 hour drive to talk and discuss whatever subject comes up.

Oh. My. God. 10 hours (minutes more like) for her to worm her way back into 'fiance' status again. OP, you did it and then *immediately* crumpled. She's using you and you know it. The only way to cut this off is to go cold turkey. No contact. You can't cherry pick pieces of this 'arrangement' (notice I dont say relationship because it's not) and throw away others. As long as this woman is physically in your life then you can't move on. Breaking up is breaking up. This woman is using you financially and you are using her for company and because you are afraid of being alone. That is the lonliest arrangement in the world for you.

a concerned fiance wrote: »

At this moment I am still of the mind that I take the kids for their special day.

Oh for Heavens sakes OP, they're NOT your kids. She is using you as a meal ticket and you are letting her. She's using the kids to manipulate YOU too. Come on OP, you are being extremely naive here.

You want to feel needed. Maybe your self esteem is so low this is all you think you're worth. Well sell yourself off cheaply and you'll get nothing in return. You've got to start taking control of your own life. Go get therapy, build up your damaged self esteem. Learn how to read people, how to make decisions. Otherwise your life will continue exactly as it has been.

a concerned fiance wrote: »

I would-at the appropriate time-like to remain friends.

Why?

Obligation?
Guilt?

She's not obliged or guilty about you. She sees you as a convenient domestic appliance. Give her lifts. Mind the kids. Support. Co-parenting. But her nice things. Come on OP, you're trying to buy company.

a concerned fiance wrote: »

Just an FYI-I am currently miserable

I'm not suprised. You have the worst of all possible worlds now. She's still your problem. She's still going to be calling the shots and parasiting off you. No wonder you're miserable.

You can give and give to her but you won't get what you want back. It's a bad deal for you. Break up. Properly. Tell her you don't want her coming back. Pack up her stuff and send it home to her.

I know you are lonely but you are going to remain so until you start taking charge of your own life and forging REAL relationships. This one is an unhealthy symbiotic one of mutual using.

Distorted

Well done for taking decisive action OP, but I suspect (I hope I am wrong) that she will try to worm her way back in again. You come across as quite indecisive.

Maybe this is a time for a bit of introspection - you say that getting into long term relationships with women you do not really love and then spending a long time getting out of them while feeling guilty and miserable is the pattern of your life. I think Emme hits the nail on the head when she suggests you might be afraid of strong independent women. There are plenty of such women about so you must be deliberately choosing the type of women you end up with. All the things you criticise about your most recent girlfriend (the lack of job, no independence, inability to drive, activity limiting health problems) would all have been obvious before you got involved with her. Therefore I would suggest there is a part of you that is entering into relationships with these type of women deliberately and then somehow revelling in the pattern of long drawn out rejection that follows it.

There is no reason, from what you describe, that you cannot find yourself a healthy, active partner with whom you share mutual values and interests. Unless you are indeed, as suggested above, intimidated by such women.

LegacyUser

Another thing OP, I'd be disinclined to believe that herself and her husband do not really live together. How do you know this?

Are you bankrolling this woman?

I think she saw you coming and suckered you in. I must tell you a blind person could see you are a soft touch. You made life plans with someone you never even met. Schoolboy error. She's a scam artist imho.

You mention in your first post that she 'sacrificed her whole life to be with you' -huh....she didn't. She came here and lived off you. It was great for her, she's a taker and you're a giver.

She is using guilt manipulation to control you and you can't seem to stay one step ahead of her.

You need to adopt a broken record approach here.

You; It's over.
Her; Can't we just be friends....I need to come back to tie up some loose ends.
You; No. I don't want to be friends. It's over. You can't stay here if you come back.
Her; You ******* I gave up my whole life for you.
You; That was your choice. It's over. I'm done.
Her; What about my stuff....this is not fair...how could you do this to me....don't I get a say? Wahh wahhh Boo hoo
You; No. It's over. I'll send on your stuff. It's over. I don't love you.
Her; The kids, how could you do this to them...they really NEED this special day out/your love/your money/your time/your company...
You; It's best to make a clean break, it's over.
Her; Boo hoo blah blah blah......<guilt manipulation tactic number 105>
You; It's over. Goodbye.

OP, get yourself back to therapy and learn how to rebuild your self confidence and self worth. You need to recognise and understand that it is not ok for people to control you through your Achilles heel=guilt. You can't allow guilt to control you.

You went badly astray here but you can learn how to change things for yourself. It's hard work but you can learn. You can't learn these life skills from a few posts but learn you must otherwise you will continue to be exploited by using people.

Good luck and be firm. No is a complete sentance. She's not your problem any more.

a concerned fiance

I woke up feeling better.

Now after reading all your posts, I'm starting to get that ill feeling again.

As you pointed out, mostly or fully because of me, things are far from over.

I know they are not my kids-but to be honest I was lloking forward to the event at least as much as them if not more.

I just figured all along that she would need to come back for her stuff. She doesn't have a lot, so it won't take so long.

I have more, and I will check in periodically to give updates.

Emme

a concerned fiance wrote: »

I woke up feeling better.

Now after reading all your posts, I'm starting to get that ill feeling again.

As you pointed out, mostly or fully because of me, things are far from over.

I know they are not my kids-but to be honest I was lloking forward to the event at least as much as them if not more.

So how are you going to feel when they're not in your life any more? I have a feeling you have broken up with this woman several times before in exactly the same way but weakened and taken her back each time. She has you wrapped around her little finger and is using her children to back her up.

a concerned fiance wrote: »

I just figured all along that she would need to come back for her stuff. She doesn't have a lot, so it won't take so long.

It will take a lot longer than you think. If it does get to the stage of her leaving and taking her stuff let her keep the ring as she seems to like that better than anything else. But I don't think that's going to happen. You'll find some other excuse to keep the sham going. I think that deep down you enjoy all this even though you say you don't love her and you're miserable.

From my experience of (most) men if they don't want me in their lives it's "get out" and there's no comeback. That's their choice and I prefer it when they're upfront and straight. The cowards hang in there and make the whole process more painful for everyone. I think we all know which camp you fall into, OP. You have to live with the consequences of your decision and if you want to be a carer and ATM for this woman and her children that's your choice.

Taltos

You need to contact her and tell her that for your sake and to help her move on that you cannot have anymore contact.

Right now she is living in false hope she can talk you around, and she probably will until she leaves again.

I know you feel the guilt will destroy you and you will not be a nice guy but to be perfectly frank you need to cop the hell on. What type of person do you think you will be by dragging this out. You need to be surgical - it is over - so let it be over.

inform her - and then do everything possible to prevent all future contact.

Please learn from this OP - flim-flamming just hurts others and yourself.

All the best.
T

Amazotheamazing

Be realistic here, you and her are never going to be "friends", for the love of God don't let her stay with you and cut contact. So what if she hates you for it, so what if you hate yourself for it. It's the only option open to you at this stage.

Get back in touch and say she can't stay. It's not going to be easy but it's the easiest of any of the hard roads you've made for yourself.

a concerned fiance

Am I allowed to feel sad for me?

LegacyUser

a concerned fiance wrote: »

Am I allowed to feel sad for me?

Yes, you should feel sad. You are being abused.

By yourself.

Start taking responsibilty for yourself and stop treating yourself like sh!t.

Feeling sad is ok, if you plan to use this experience consructively. Self pity, martyrdom and playing the victim without making any positive changes are not ok.

Good luck to you. Your future is in your own hands.

a concerned fiance

no is a complete sentance wrote: »

Yes, you should feel sad. You are being abused.

By yourself.

Start taking responsibilty for yourself and stop treating yourself like sh!t.

Feeling sad is OK, if you plan to use this experience consructively. Self pity, martyrdom and playing the victim without making any positive changes are not ok.

Good luck to you. Your future is in your own hands.

How about a day of grieving? Just plain old fashion grieving-not feeling sorry. Oh well doesn't really matter.