Important decision !! HELP

speeding

Hi Guys

I have a bit of a dilemma at the moment. After a few months deciding i've realised i really want to do medicine. I applied for Budapest back in february and was accepted onto their 6 year course. This year i've also applied for uk entry and will be doing the ukcat later this month. I plan to also study for the Gamsat in March 2012.

Now currently i'm working as a physio. I qualified june 12 months ago. The option i'm thinking of going at with at the minute is to undertake the first year year of the medical degree in Budapest. Obviously alot of the stuff i'm going to be studying over there will help for the gamsat preparation. The reason i'm considering doing this is that i want a backup plan incase i'm not successful with the ukcat or the gamsat. Obviously i'd prefer to do the course within the uk and ireland because it makes things a lot easier when i eventually qualify. I'm 23 now so i don't really want to be wasting too many years trying to get into an irish/uk medical degree.

Do people think this would be a reasonable thing to do ? Apart from losing money with fees it seems the smart option to me. Or should i just forget about Budapest and just hope that i'm successful in gaining uk/irish entry ?

EugeneOnegin

Hey Speeding,

Understand your dilemma alright, why don't you consider doing UK GAMSAT in September to see how you get on and then if needs be do Irish GAMSAT in March? The UK GAMSAT is around the second week of September, might give you an indication as to what you're up against (though results come out mid-late November)

If you go down the Budapest route, you'll be doing 6 years instead of 4 here in Ireland. So if you do decide to take a year out, you'll only be doing 5 years instead of the 6 in Hungary. Perhaps get a job and that for the coming year and see how it goes?

Then again you have an offer already. Best to decide yourself whether you want the adventure of moving to Hungary or else wait it out here and chance the GAMSAT and grad. med. entry which may well become increasing competitive. Personally for me Hungary wasn't on the table as I was lucky enough in GAMSAT but would defiantly be considering it otherwise.

Best of luck regardless, and whatever your decision I hope that you are happy with it.

speeding

thanks man. It's a toughie. I don't really have that long to make a decision :-(.

speeding

ok i'm decided i'm going to give the first year a shot one over there so i have a back up plan. Medicine is all i really want to do. Thanks for the advice.

speeding

Would people think this a sensible option or completely mad ?? Starting first year out in budapest and coming back in october for ukcat exam and february/march for hpat and gamsat. Hpat for rcsi mature entry and gamsat for postgrad entry in ireland. Is that completely mad ?? Would first year training in budapest be a good basis for science part of gamsat ?? Just wondering what people think of that ??

Sid_Justice

TBH a years an enternity for some and a moment for others.
25 grand is a fortune for some and a worthwhile investment for others.

Having said that, with the way the entries are now, I don't see how anyone with the proper motivation for medicine can't get a gamsat score good enough for UL, it's in the mid 50s like. I'd be tempted to put hungary on hold (whether this jeopardises all future applications who knows) and do the gamsat again, I wouldn't bother with the mature application (unless a 5 year course appeals or particularly RCSI).

There are people with science degrees chancing their arm on gamsat and getting offers here.

speeding

Thanks. I really appreciate the advice. My biggest fear is that i reach this stage next year with no offer at all. I know mid 50's is very doable in the gamsat and i do have a science background but theres always the lingering doubt that i won't get a high enough score.

musthavemusic

Hi OP!

I know it's a tough decision and ultimately you're the only one who knows what will make you happier...but at the mo, you're talking about moving to a foreign country, then to-ing and fro-ing all year sitting exams and doing applications, as well as spending a fortune on fees and flights. Would you not be better off taking that time to study at home, and giving yourself the best shot at the ukcat and the gamsat? Sounds to me like you're setting yourself up for a really stressful year! and add to that that I presume you won't know anyone in Budapest? Dealing with a brand new start could be tough when you're hoping to not have to stay there! and 6 years is a big commitment. I've just finished medicine myself, best of luck with whatever u choose to do!

Sid_Justice

I know you're just bouncing ideas off people but no body can really tell you what to do. Like I know personally, I wouldn't survive in a non-english speaking country. Remember Hungary isn't like france or spain where we all have a bit of french or whatever and you'd be able to pick the lingo up. Hungarian is by all accounts a monster of a language. I know people that went to Hungary for med and vet med (i've since lost contact) but I haven't heard anything other than they're getting by. So it's not impossible and the course would be quite international.

I think we all feel like we're getting on in years and being "23" is too old to be squandering years, but trust me, you could resit gamsat 5 times and you'd still be younger than me starting it. I wouldn't let another year in limbo put you off too much, taking on medicine as a graduate is for life not just for christmas.

speeding

Thanks for the post. Great advice there alright. I know it's basically my decision. Suppose it just shows the serious amount of procrastination and pondering i've done over the last 2 weeks that i nearly need someone to tell me what to do. It's driving me mad. Anyway nice to know that i still do have time. If i put the work and effort needed i'll be successful in Gamsat.

imported_guy

speeding wrote: »

Thanks for the post. Great advice there alright. I know it's basically my decision. Suppose it just shows the serious amount of procrastination and pondering i've done over the last 2 weeks that i nearly need someone to tell me what to do. It's driving me mad. Anyway nice to know that i still do have time. If i put the work and effort needed i'll be successful in Gamsat.

you should also consider the fees, GEM is nearly 16 grand a year, eastern europe may be cheaper.

speeding

When you compare the length of course, fees are much the same really. I definitely wouldn't consider it a defining factor. The biggest worry is finishing the course in Budapest and not being able to take the path in medicine I would want. Working in the uk wouldn't bother me but would I be able to secure a fy1 position. from my reading here it looks like applying for intern year in Ireland isn't possible. Anyway thanks for the comments imported.

imported_guy

speeding wrote: »

When you compare the length of course, fees are much the same really. I definitely wouldn't consider it a defining factor. The biggest worry is finishing the course in Budapest and not being able to take the path in medicine I would want. Working in the uk wouldn't bother me but would I be able to secure a fy1 position. from my reading here it looks like applying for intern year in Ireland isn't possible. Anyway thanks for the comments imported.

applying for an intern year isnt possible because they make you do it in some other countries before they give you a degree (its the other way around here) so you have to apply for SHO posts when you come back im pretty sure

speeding

Just what I thought. Thoughts of possibly going straight into a sho position after the course is more than daunting. And that's if you're lucky enough especially when competing with Irish/uk trained doctors.

imported_guy

speeding wrote: »

Just what I thought. Thoughts of possibly going straight into a sho position after the course is more than daunting. And that's if you're lucky enough especially when competing with Irish/uk trained doctors.

if you're worried about getting a SHO spot, there are plenty to go around in most specialities, hospitals are pretty under staffed right now. If you are worried about not being competent enough, just remember every medical school has to achieve certain standards doesnt matter where they are, aborigonies in australian allopathic medical schools learn the same medicine as igloo people in norwegian allopathic medical schools. and all EU schools also have world class standards of education.

speeding

imported_guy wrote: »

if you're worried about getting a SHO spot, there are plenty to go around in most specialities, hospitals are pretty under staffed right now. If you are worried about not being competent enough, just remember every medical school has to achieve certain standards doesnt matter where they are, aborigonies in australian allopathic medical schools learn the same medicine as igloo people in norwegian allopathic medical schools. and all EU schools also have world class standards of education.

Thanks. Yeah I've no doubts that the training is good over there. I suppose it's just the attitude I've encountered with Irish consultants in my job. Most of them whom I asked advice from said that Irish trained docs were much more equipped and of a far better standard than eastern European docs. Now I don't know if that's just snobbery or not.

imported_guy

speeding wrote: »

Thanks. Yeah I've no doubts that the training is good over there. I suppose it's just the attitude I've encountered with Irish consultants in my job. Most of them whom I asked advice from said that Irish trained docs were much more equipped and of a far better standard than eastern European docs. Now I don't know if that's just snobbery or not.

tell them to cite some research next time! i wonder how many of these "irish docs" are actually irish, paeds department in bons in cork has only one irish doc and 5 non irish, including consultants

speeding

imported_guy wrote: »

tell them to cite some research next time! i wonder how many of these "irish docs" are actually irish, paeds department in bons in cork has only one irish doc and 5 non irish, including consultants

Good to know !! well here's hoping it works out for me whatever option i choose :-p.

MLH1

With the huge drop in Gamsat scores this year, Id forget bout hungar and study straight for the Gamsat, I recently rejected a place in UL at age 23 because I didnt like the idea of the long hours and responsabilty. Has anyone got a link to the Gamsat curve this year?

Biologic

imported_guy wrote: »

every medical school has to achieve certain standards doesnt matter where they are, aborigonies in australian allopathic medical schools learn the same medicine as igloo people in norwegian allopathic medical schools. and all EU schools also have world class standards of education.

I'm genuinely gobsmacked that you're telling him to dismiss the opinions of the consultants he has worked with and take your word for it. Your posts should come with a disclaimer that you're neither a medical student nor a doctor. You have no first hand experience in the majority of areas where you're so keen to give people advice, and the accuracy posts generally reflects that. Fair play to the poster in the other thread who called you out on this fact.
I'm doing an elective in a foreign country now and there most definitely is a different standard set here for medical practice. I'm placed with a medical student here who is studying outside his native country and he admits that it's a disadvantage professionally. In his words "graduates of my college are less clinically competent than those in my home country". Please don't mislead the OP into thinking that every medical school is the same. He may well receive a fantastic education there, but it would be foolish to just assume so. It would be even more foolish to ignore the opinions of consultants who will likely be the ones influencing his career.

Speeding: If you're smart enough for physio, chances are you're smart enough to get a GEM place somewhere in Ireland. If I was in your position I'd stay in that job, save up as much cash as you can, and study your arse off for GAMSAT. You probably have your heart set on doing medicine now and don't care what it costs to get in but it seems like an overly expensive plan. The only way I'd embark on your plan is if I had someone bankrolling the whole thing with no expectation of being paid back.
As was mentioned earlier, this year almost 1 in 2 got a place. Given that the majority of people don't prepare properly for GAMSAT, you'll already be in that half. Also, most of what you would learn in med school in Budapest wouldn't benefit you in the least for GAMSAT. Half of the exam has zero science, and even within the science sections much of it has no relevance to medicine. Hope this helps, feel free to PM me if you've any questions about GAMSAT that aren't in the advice threads.

musthavemusic

OP u can definitely apply for intern year if you've done your degree in budapest! there's 2 or 3 prague graduates working in my hospital! the new post allocation system includes all EU students, no reason why you shouldn't get a spot if you get a decent degree. just so u know!

speeding

Thanks guys. Some excellent comments there. Much appreciated. It's great to get some advice from all of you. I'm taking everything on board.

drrkpd

musthavemusic wrote: »

OP u can definitely apply for intern year if you've done your degree in budapest! there's 2 or 3 prague graduates working in my hospital! the new post allocation system includes all EU students, no reason why you shouldn't get a spot if you get a decent degree. just so u know!

All intern posts are now decided centrally and all undergraduates can apply including those who studied abroad.

As regards speedys dilemma if he stays in Ireland are there any locum jobs in physiotherapy he could do to help with his fees even if during vacation?? Doubt anyone will have much "spare" time during term!!

speeding

Thanks guys. Yeah to be honest i should have no problems getting work. I'm being offered locums left right and centre. I lied in my first post though. I'm actually a radiographer not a physio :-p.

Still feel like i might be letting an opportunity go but i think i'm just letting my eagerness to get started on a course, any course that will let me become a doctor, cloud my judgement.