gordon setter

junospider

Hi all,I am looking for opinions on how to correct some faults in a gordon setter bitch I am trying to train.She is 2 years old and mad as a hare.I took her out a few times last year and shot a couple of birds with her.The first problem I have with her is when hunting she gallops flat out as hard as she can go.She can keep this gallop up for hours and I know she has to be passing birds.How can I slow her down and get her hunting rather than running?I have no problem stopping her,turning her or getting her to come to me.
My second problem is trying to get her to point on scent.She will set perfectly if she can see the bird but when she gets a scent she crashes about like a springer and the bird generally rises before she sets.Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.Thanks in advance.

EPointer=Birdss

First of all its a young dog & expect this for 2 more years.

A dog 'belting' is the trade mark of a young dog not having enough exercise. Modern living is not condusive of endless spare hours to work the legs off a dog, so what do you do.
I think you should make the effort as best possible to knock the edge off of him the day before hunting. Furthermore I noticed that the morning you go out hunting feed him to slow him a bit.
I also start on tougher ground to help this.

As regards 'bumping' birds. Back to basics & training the dog to point on 1st scent in a controlled environment. You could plant a bird & bring the dog up to it on a long lead controlling the pace & giving a command to hold, set, point, whoa etc
Also sounds like the dog needs to drag a long lead in the field. (will slow him a bit when belting also & helped me a lot)
It can be very annoying to know he is on a bird scent & speeding up til he knows exactly where it is & then stop. No good to you on wild birds sure.
I would leave him drag the lead around & when you see him shape up grab the lead. Forget about shooting until you get this sorted. (better still have a buddy do the shooting for you) If you can drop the dog or have it stay then this is a time where you can use it to get the message across.
Once he starts to shape up grab the lead & tell him to stay or whatever. Walk him in slowly holding the lead keeping in him in control & discouraging any speed etc
If you can control this situation by planting a bird better still.

You must also seriously give out for bumping birds. My fella runs back frightened if he does it so im happy he knows its wrong & will get cuter with age. Also never shoot a bumped bird or your undoing all the hard work!

EP

Vizzy

Hi my brother runs a Gordon and 2 English setters.He bought the Gordon in Scotland and the breeding is very good.The breeder told him that she does nothing with her dogs until they are about 2(or more depending onthe dog)
As Epointer says your bitch is still a young dog and probably hasn't settled yet,however you should be taking action now to avoid problems later.
The brother swears by a long lead(10m or longer)made of canvas and about 2 inches wide.This will definitely slow her down particularly when it gets wet.It also stops her running too far as you can stand on the lead as he speeds past you.She'll learn quickly to stop when she lands on her arse a few times:).Be carefull if you are catching the leash with your hands as you can get a nasty burn or worse.I wouldn't work her in heavy cover with the leash on until you have put a bit of manners on her and don't use a choke collar.
You can also control her as she goes in to the set and take off/put on the lead when the dog least expects it.
Also you say you can stop her,turn her and get her to come back to you-
might be worth your while getting her to range for you in large open fields(or beet,kale etc).That way she will cover huge mileage from side to side but not necesarily forward.That will knock the stuffing out of her too.
On a side note but related-the brothers fellow will hunt an area once only and will just lose interest once he has hunted the field and just come back to you.
Most important thing,and you probably know it already,is spend time with the dog(maybe an hour a day or more if you can manage it)
Best of luck.

irish setter

gordons can be very head strong and depending where the breeding came from can have a huge range. don't worry about the hard running as i'd much rather have a hard goer than one that won't get started. he will find his pace with experience and you'd be surprised how well they can pick birds at high speed. as for the setting on scent i've never used a long rope so i can't comment on them only to say if he has not got used to one by now it prob won't be much help to you. you should be able to drop him or at least stop him and every time he bump's a bird drop him. if you know he is on the scent of birds drop him. be prepared to chase him if he chases and drop him as soon as possible. he will soon get the idea and begin to stalk. don't give out to the dog if he bumps a bird and you drop him even if it takes a bit if effort and chasing to get him stopped.

EPointer=Birdss

I've put a rope on my dog who used sprint like a greyhound & had never roped trained him. Slowed him down no end by purely dragging it behind him so it serves a very useful purpose. He will in time find his pace but that could be 4 years of age by which time the OP will have bought a springer
As regards bumping I don't see why you wouldnt discourage poor behaviour & encourage good. How else will he learn. Reward & punishment principal. It will not put the dog off of birds. With the rope the chance of bumping are also much reduced as you are physically holding the dog

junospider

Thanks for the advice lads,I will certainly try the long rope.I also have a few pheasants in a pen and will try putting one out.This is all new to me so thanks again.

irish setter

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

I've put a rope on my dog who used sprint like a greyhound & had never roped trained him. Slowed him down no end by purely dragging it behind him so it serves a very useful purpose. He will in time find his pace but that could be 4 years of age by which time the OP will have bought a springer
As regards bumping I don't see why you wouldnt discourage poor behaviour & encourage good. How else will he learn. Reward & punishment principal. It will not put the dog off of birds. With the rope the chance of bumping are also much reduced as you are physically holding the dog

just my opinion that if you slow down a dog with a rope then you'll have a dog that will go slow with a rope. take the rope off and your back to square one. if you want a slow dog then don't get one of the setter breeds which are bred to be fast. again just my opinion but i never give out to a dog around birds, just in case you get the sensitive dog that will think twice. and if the op decides to get a springer i'll take the gordon off him no bother, sounds like a cracker;)

dillondb

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snipey

i there,i have a gordon that i got in scotland from a british FTchampion and he is only starting to settle now and he's 3 years old i still put him on the long lead and bring him to a snipe bog where you can get alot of sets in the space of 20 mins,you can stand beside him and push him down when the bird flushes,and use one sharp blow from a 210 whistle,don't be hard on her as gordons can be stuborn,"believe me"hope that helps and if she's from good stock you might like to put her in pup.

junospider

Hi snipey,this bitch is well bred,the sire being imported from France is from a renowned woodcock bitch.I am trying yo source a good working stud dog to mate with her.Did your dog come from Penny Daragh?

deeksofdoom

junospider wrote: »

Thanks for the advice lads,I will certainly try the long rope.I also have a few pheasants in a pen and will try putting one out.This is all new to me so thanks again.

Brings back memories; I had a dropper that used to run like mad, put a rope on him, boy was I sorry I didn't bring a pair of leather work gloves!.... Rope burn is painful.

How much obedience work have you done with the dog? Is the dog trained to the whistle? does the dog come back to you every time you call him? before you start bringing any dog out into the fields you need to have him under control.

irish setter

junospider wrote: »

Hi snipey,this bitch is well bred,the sire being imported from France is from a renowned woodcock bitch.I am trying yo source a good working stud dog to mate with her.Did your dog come from Penny Daragh?

there's a half decent dog competing in trials at the moment, the only gordon competing. imported from norway i believe, if your interested pm me and i'll give ya the owners number.

snipey

hi junospider,ya he's a son of Emil of Ensay who is owned by Penny Daragh

snipey

Hi junospider,ya my dog is a son of Emil of Ensay who is owned by Penny Daragh.