Heated points

cocoshovel

Hey all, I was just thinking that winter is only around the corner and it got me wondering about how every year there is always delays due to ice and snow on points, and IR have to send out people to manually clear them with shovels and the like, which is very time consuming. I was surprised to find that they were even able to drive their van up to the tracks near where I live, the roads are so bad.

Do you think investing in heated points is viable, or is there an alternative method to preventing this problem?

Hungerford

cocoshovel wrote: »

Do you think investing in heated points is viable, or is there an alternative method to preventing this problem?

It is viable. NIR have heated points at strategic points on their network but IE have shown a bizarre opposition to their use.

ArphaRima

Genuine question

How do Canada, Russia and northern europe etc cope with cold weather of this kind? We have very mild winters in comparison.
I seriously doubt they heat the tracks in that case. It would cost billions to do on that scale.

Cookie_Monster

fluffer wrote: »

Genuine question

How do Canada, Russia and northern europe etc cope with cold weather of this kind? We have very mild winters in comparison.
I seriously doubt they heat the tracks in that case. It would cost billions to do on that scale.

it'd wouldn't cost that much, only very small areas around the moving point blades need to be heated, not entire track lengths.

Losty Dublin

Heated points weren't fitted here simple because we never had snow heavy enough to seize points. The North is more used to heavy snows than we are so they needed them more. Given the last two winters it has been given a lot of consideration by the powers that be so it will become the norm here in the next few years.

dowlingm

You might be surprised to hear that in Canada heated points are not standard! Toronto's large commuter rail network has only recently got blowers installed over the last few years, otherwise it's a couple of lads with a blowtorch in -30C!

CIE

dowlingm wrote: »

You might be surprised to hear that in Canada heated points are not standard! Toronto's large commuter rail network has only recently got blowers installed over the last few years, otherwise it's a couple of lads with a blowtorch in -30C!

That is remarkable. Further south though in the States, they used to have gas-fired points heaters (now replaced with electric in many locations IIRC). This picture (from 1976) shows West End junction on the former Erie Lackawanna railway, in Jersey City in New Jersey, with all the points heaters going at night.

Hungerford

CIE wrote: »

That is remarkable. Further south though in the States, they used to have gas-fired points heaters (now replaced with electric in many locations IIRC). This picture (from 1976) shows West End junction on the former Erie Lackawanna railway, in Jersey City in New Jersey, with all the points heaters going at night.

I think that's overkill - you are meant to heat the points not barbeque them.

corktina

yep, you only need a small bit of heat to stop the ice forming at critical ,er um points...you know what I mean.:).

CIE

Not in the temperatures that you sometimes experience in that part of the world. Wind chill lowers ambient temperature significantly.

West End is a complex junction, but East End on the same railway is even more complex.

Carawaystick

Maybe if there were staff working as snow fell to deice points rather than having trains delayed more than 12 hours after the last snowfall might reduce delays

Losty Dublin

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Heated points weren't fitted here simple because we never had snow heavy enough to seize points. The North is more used to heavy snows than we are so they needed them more. Given the last two winters it has been given a lot of consideration by the powers that be so it will become the norm here in the next few years.

I was one of those affected last year, my trip to Tralee on Christmas Eve took six hours instead of the usual four due to points trouble in Portarlington. Took two hours to get to Portlaoise. If snow is going to be a regular occurrence now then it would be wise to invest in heaters.

lord lucan

Carawaystick wrote: »

Maybe if there were staff working as snow fell to deice points rather than having trains delayed more than 12 hours after the last snowfall might reduce delays

That'd require a serious amount of manpower in the Dublin area alone nevermind the rest of the country!:eek:

Hilly Bill

Carawaystick wrote: »

Maybe if there were staff working as snow fell to deice points rather than having trains delayed more than 12 hours after the last snowfall might reduce delays

There was staff working to clear the points after the first heavy snow fall and the tempreature dropped . Trying to get to the points in that weather would have been a job in its self never mind to be out in it clearing snow.
I would imagine that Irish Rail would have took something from this and possibly put in place a plan to prevent disruption if it happens again.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

There was staff working to clear the points after the first heavy snow fall and the tempreature dropped . Trying to get to the points in that weather would have been a job in its self never mind to be out in it clearing snow.
I would imagine that Irish Rail would have took something from this and possibly put in place a plan to prevent disruption if it happens again.

I would have thought bringing staff out to affected points by rail would be best?

Hilly Bill

Not so Foggy, all the points would have been affected so driving out to the locations in the heavy snow and walking out to the points to clear the snow and de-ice them before the first train would have been the only option.

merengueca

It wouldn't be prohibitvly expensive to install point heating strips onto critical points, got to be cheaper than what I saw last winter - a guy walking down from Clara station to the Tullamore end points, then upto the Athlone end to pour a bit of de icer from his watering can onto each before the booked service came in. Not a bad way to get a bit of overtime in;)

Don't think I'll be applying that technique on the WCML.:D

Rud

I thought i was seeing things two winters ago in the bad weather,when i seen one of the station staff out with the kettle near one of the points in Newbridge but from what i'm reading here clearly i wasn't imagining it!