What Cork Footballers might call it a day ?

Rebel1977

In light of corks defeat yesterday what players might decide to call it a day ? i be thinking of quirke, miskella, nick, maybe canty

teednab-el

Rebel1977 wrote: »

In light of corks defeat yesterday what players might decide to call it a day ? i be thinking of quirke, miskella, nick, maybe canty

The ones I think should go now are Counihan and the selectors for a start, now on to the players, Quirke, Canty, Miskella, Kissane, Pierce o Neill. O Neill just doesnt function on this Cork team, he reminds me of Timmy McCarthy of the hurlers TBH.

Rebel1977

teednab-el wrote: »

The ones I think should go now are Counihan and the selectors for a start, now on to the players, Quirke, Canty, Miskella, Kissane, Pierce o Neill. O Neill just doesnt function on this Cork team, he reminds me of Timmy McCarthy of the hurlers TBH.

Bit harsh on conor, he has delivered 3 national leagues, munster and all ireland titles. Kissane should be added to list, maybe move o'neill to midfield as a impact sub like we had lasy year with derek kavanagh.

teednab-el

Rebel1977 wrote: »

Bit harsh on conor, he has delivered 3 national leagues, munster and all ireland titles. Kissane should be added to list, maybe move o'neill to midfield as a impact sub like we had lasy year with derek kavanagh.

You think I might be a bit harsh here but IMO there has been two many times now that he has been too slow to make changes, the 2009 All Ireland final springs to mind and there has been plenty of other matches too he has been found wanting and we will forget about what happened yesterday.

We definitely need better selectors also. The ones there present wouldnt know anything about a football if it came up and bit them in the face.

P O Neill at midfield is an option, his physical presence could be useful as he is definitely not a forward. They should also try and put Aidan Walsh at the edge of the square to see what he is made off. I think Nicholas Murphy could still be useful as an impact sub.

Syferus

What's the situation with Nicolas Murphy anyways? His introductions in the big games in last year's championship always drove Cork on when it was looking dodgy. He was thrown on way too late yesterday when he might have had some impact if used earlier. Injured or just finished?

sendit

teednab-el wrote: »

You think I might be a bit harsh here but IMO there has been two many times now that he has been too slow to make changes, the 2009 All Ireland final springs to mind and there has been plenty of other matches too he has been found wanting and we will forget about what happened yesterday.

We definitely need better selectors also. The ones there present wouldnt know anything about a football if it came up and bit them in the face.

P O Neill at midfield is an option, his physical presence could be useful as he is definitely not a forward. They should also try and put Aidan Walsh at the edge of the square to see what he is made off. I think Nicholas Murphy could still be useful as an impact sub.

Surprise surprise Cork people giving out about management when they get beat....

DDC1990

Conor Counihan has been Corks best manager in living memory. Always gracious in victory and defeat. It was such a welcome change to Billy Morgan who ran his Cork team on hatered. His comments after the Mayo game on Sunday were so humble and it was a pleasure to see.

As for players to move on? Canty, Murphy, Kissane. Can't see too many more. One defeat doesn't make guys want to pack it in. It makes them want to train harder for next year. Cork will be back.

sendit

DDC1990 wrote: »

Conor Counihan has been Corks best manager in living memory. Always gracious in victory and defeat. It was such a welcome change to Billy Morgan who ran his Cork team on hatered. His comments after the Mayo game on Sunday were so humble and it was a pleasure to see.

As for players to move on? Canty, Murphy, Kissane. Can't see too many more. One defeat doesn't make guys want to pack it in. It makes them want to train harder for next year. Cork will be back.

Counihan has had great success in his time in charge. But Sunday reminded me of former Kerry mamager Pat o Shea, Counihan came to croke park with only one plan as Kerry did in 2008 and as Mayo fought back he didn't know what to do. Fair enough Cork had a lot of injuries but to only score 1 point in the second half is not what champions do.

rossie1977

i remember talking to a few kerry lads after the down game last year and they were convinced most of the backline would call it a day after that defeat but here we are 12 months later and none of them left

quirke, canty, miskella, kissane, murphy, pearse o'neill and donncha o'connor are all over 30, noel o leary will be 30 by the start of the championship next season, its hard to know, the levels of fitness at the very top in gaa is incredible these days, look at johnny doyle for example so its possible all those guys could still be playing in their mid to late 30s

n32

counihan came in the midst of a strike in 2008, took the team over in the middle of the league and avoided relegation.
in the 20008 championship they won munster and lost narrowly to kerry in the AI semi final. in 2009 they won the div 2 league, munster championship and lost the all ireland final. in 2010 they did the league and championsip double, 2011 they won the league. on sunday they were missing three marquee forwards in colm o neill , ciaran sheehan, daniel goulding and gouldings replacement barry o driscoll. nicholas murphy and graham canty werent fit. derek kavanagh, kevin mcmahon, kieran o connor, john hayes have all retired. thats a serious amount of players to lose from one season to the next. counihan has a pheneomenal record snc he took over. cork football was in disarray when he took over and if he does leave the same **** could happen again with regard to the board looking to appoint their own man. no manager could have done more with the resources counihan had this year. when we were in trouble in the 2nd half on sunday i looked at the programme to see the subs and when i saw what was missing it was clear as day that our race was run for the year.
give him a chance next year when he has the injured players back and the like of cahalane, collins, hallisey and few more are ready to come ont the team

sendit

n32 wrote: »

counihan came in the midst of a strike in 2008, took the team over in the middle of the league and avoided relegation.
in the 20008 championship they won munster and lost narrowly to kerry in the AI semi final. in 2009 they won the div 2 league, munster championship and lost the all ireland final. in 2010 they did the league and championsip double, 2011 they won the league. on sunday they were missing three marquee forwards in colm o neill , ciaran sheehan, daniel goulding and gouldings replacement barry o driscoll. nicholas murphy and graham canty werent fit. derek kavanagh, kevin mcmahon, kieran o connor, john hayes have all retired. thats a serious amount of players to lose from one season to the next. counihan has a pheneomenal record snc he took over. cork football was in disarray when he took over and if he does leave the same **** could happen again with regard to the board looking to appoint their own man. no manager could have done more with the resources counihan had this year. when we were in trouble in the 2nd half on sunday i looked at the programme to see the subs and when i saw what was missing it was clear as day that our race was run for the year.
give him a chance next year when he has the injured players back and the like of cahalane, collins, hallisey and few more are ready to come ont the team

John Hayes retired because he wasn't getting enough game time and i assume Counihan didn't rate him enough to give him any but Sunday im sure Counihan would have killed to be able to bring him on

n32

sendit wrote: »

John Hayes retired because he wasn't getting enough game time and i assume Counihan didn't rate him enough to give him any but Sunday im sure Counihan would have killed to be able to bring him on

what i m saying is that even though those hayes etc werent regulars they had great experience to be able to bring them on in big games. we had young talent this year on theline buy they hadnt the experience to come in and change a game

sendit

n32 wrote: »

what i m saying is that even though those hayes etc werent regulars they had great experience to be able to bring them on in big games. we had young talent this year on theline buy they hadnt the experience to come in and change a game

Thats what im saying Hayes would have been better the some of the lads that came on Sunday

n32

its a delicate situation now with regard to keeping or replacing counihan. if a new man comes in (most likely John Cleary) will he keep the over 30 brigade for a year or so or does he have a clear out and go with younger guys? if they clear out the elder statesmen then we will be severely lacking in experience and leadership. i dont see the point of bringing in a new man now when so many key guys are coming to the end because either he ll get rid of them, leaving us short on experience or else he ll spend his first year with all of counihans team and then clear them out the following year. the best thing is to leave counihan there until the older players retire then start afresh with cleary and his u21 s of the last few years.

Orizio

teednab-el wrote: »

The ones I think should go now are Counihan and the selectors for a start, now on to the players, Quirke, Canty, Miskella, Kissane, Pierce o Neill. O Neill just doesnt function on this Cork team, he reminds me of Timmy McCarthy of the hurlers TBH.

Oh.Dear.God. Please tell me you are trolling.

Orizio

To answer your question OP, I think Nicolas Murphy will retire, and that'll be it.

sendit wrote: »

Thats what im saying Hayes would have been better the some of the lads that came on Sunday

Like who?

Orizio

Syferus wrote: »

What's the situation with Nicolas Murphy anyways? His introductions in the big games in last year's championship always drove Cork on when it was looking dodgy. He was thrown on way too late yesterday when he might have had some impact if used earlier. Injured or just finished?

He has been injured all year, and whenever he looked like he was approaching match fitness his hamstring went again.

sendit

Orizio wrote: »

To answer your question OP, I think Nicolas Murphy will retire, and that'll be it.



Like who?

To tell you the truth i dont actually know who came on for Cork Sunday but Hayes would have more experence in big games then some of them aside from Nicolas Murphy

flahavaj

I could see Canty walking, he has built up an awful lot of wear and tear over the years.

sendit

Was Anthony Lynch part of the panel this year?

Orizio

sendit wrote: »

To tell you the truth i dont actually know who came on for Cork Sunday but Hayes would have more experence in big games then some of them aside from Nicolas Murphy

Hayes had considerable experience in not doing a whole lot of anything when playing championship. He never performed for Cork after underage level and was sitting on the panel with little to no chance of making the first team for years. Our U-21 forwards have considerably more potential then he does (like Collins, who came on Sunday).

Orizio

sendit wrote: »

Was Anthony Lynch part of the panel this year?

Training panel, never made the match day panel. Injuries again.

shaneybaby

DDC1990 wrote: »

Conor Counihan has been Corks best manager in living memory. Always gracious in victory and defeat. It was such a welcome change to Billy Morgan who ran his Cork team on hatered. His comments after the Mayo game on Sunday were so humble and it was a pleasure to see.

Just because he was humble in defeat doesn't make him a great manager. At least morgan could beat kerry.

Orizio

Nostalgia aside, Conor Counihan has been a far superior manager then Morgan, hopefully he stays on for another year at least.

Colm R

When we look at the trophy haul over the past few years, and compare it to where we have come from, asking Counihan to step aside is a non runner. There are many counties who would love to have achieved what we have in the past 3 years.

Our success is only diminished by the success of our greatest rivals, neighbors, and lets be honest, good friends. No other county has to put up with this. I live in Dublin, and just say it pans out that Mayo beat Kerry and then Dublin beat Mayo in the final, I won't be telling the lads here that it doesn't count because they didn't be Kerry - which is something I heard a lot last year.

As for who will go on the player side of things - I would prefer if the players made that decision after the winter. Let them see how their fitness and footballing is in January. The likes of Canty and Miskella still have lots to offer if they are right for it, mentally and physically.

ShamoBuc

I would prefer for him to stay, but he needs to learn to change tactics when needed and sooner on occasions. Cork need to adapt their style more if they are to continue to be one of the favourites for Sam every year.

Orizio

Colm R wrote: »

When we look at the trophy haul over the past few years, and compare it to where we have come from, asking Counihan to step aside is a non runner. There are many counties who would love to have achieved what we have in the past 3 years.

Our success is only diminished by the success of our greatest rivals, neighbors, and lets be honest, good friends. No other county has to put up with this. I live in Dublin, and just say it pans out that Mayo beat Kerry and then Dublin beat Mayo in the final, I won't be telling the lads here that it doesn't count because they didn't be Kerry - which is something I heard a lot last year.

As for who will go on the player side of things - I would prefer if the players made that decision after the winter. Let them see how their fitness and footballing is in January. The likes of Canty and Miskella still have lots to offer if they are right for it, mentally and physically.

Indeed - people have short memories, pre-Counihan we were non-runners regarding the AI. We have vastly improved, are far more organised, are much fitter etc.

teednab-el

sendit wrote: »

Surprise surprise Cork people giving out about management when they get beat....

Are you on here AGAIN just trolling for the sake of it? Please just go elsewhere if you have nothing good to add.

Personally I haven't been all that huge fan of Counihan, I've stated that here long before what happened Sunday you can ask some of the other genuine Cork posters that are on here.

My problem with him is he just doesn't make decisions quick enough when things arent working on the field and he has been found wanting on many occasions against good teams. If this happened in Kerry too often he would get the road simple as.

Yes he has brought success but there has been some disappointing days too under his reign. Maybe he doesnt have the players I dont know but better managers have made better players out of other teams.

teednab-el

Orizio wrote: »

Oh.Dear.God. Please tell me you are trolling.

Come on call a spade a spade here. Very few would disagree with me outside of Cork

Orizio

teednab-el wrote: »

Come on call a spade a spade here.

Timmy McCarthy played a very valuable role for Cork for years, invariably getting a couple of scores every game, working his socks off, stopping his man from playing and fitting in perfectly to Cork's running game. A couple of times he alone dragged Cork back into matches that we were losing. Simply because the fair-weather supporters in the terraces hated him because he lacked style doesn't change any of this, and I have little doubt that the hardcore hurling supporters in Cork will disagree with any of my assessment of Timmy's importance to Cork hurling.

Similarly, Pearse has been a very important servant to Cork through the last five years, something that is so obvious that I shouldn't even have to explain. Even when he is poor he is one of our most consistent, hard working performers and at his best he terrified opposition defences, with his direct hard running. Like Timmy he often pops with some huge scores at important times and was our main goal threat for years. He isn't going anywhere.

Very few would disagree with me outside of Cork

I love that you seem to be under to be under the impression that this fact supports your point rather then diminish it.

Agus

rossie1977 wrote: »

i remember talking to a few kerry lads after the down game last year and they were convinced most of the backline would call it a day after that defeat but here we are 12 months later and none of them left

Mike McCarthy did

teednab-el

Orizio wrote: »

Timmy McCarthy played a very valuable role for Cork for years, invariably getting a couple of scores every game, working his socks off, stopping his man from playing and fitting in perfectly to Cork's running game. A couple of times he alone dragged Cork back into matches that we were losing. Simply because the fair-weather supporters in the terraces hated him because he lacked style doesn't change any of this, and I have little doubt that the hardcore hurling supporters in Cork will disagree with any of my assessment of Timmy's importance to Cork hurling.

Similarly, Pearse has been a very important servant to Cork through the last five years, something that is so obvious that I shouldn't even have to explain. Even when he is poor he is one of our most consistent, hard working performers and at his best he terrified opposition defences, with his direct hard running. Like Timmy he often pops with some huge scores at important times and was our main goal threat for years. He isn't going anywhere.



I love that you seem to be under to be under the impression that this fact supports your point rather then diminish it.

Ok its bad for a Corkman to say this to a fellow Cork man but keep the Red and White tinted glasses on so if thats what you think. Pearse is a very average forward to be fair, hardly intercounty level to be real about it. Timmy was definately better as a hurler but no way was he a top class forward.

But sure Pearse is Great, Pearse is GOD! to some fans

sendit

teednab-el wrote: »

Are you on here AGAIN just trolling for the sake of it? Please just go elsewhere if you have nothing good to add.

Personally I haven't been all that huge fan of Counihan, I've stated that here long before what happened Sunday you can ask some of the other genuine Cork posters that are on here.

My problem with him is he just doesn't make decisions quick enough when things arent working on the field and he has been found wanting on many occasions against good teams. If this happened in Kerry too often he would get the road simple as.

Yes he has brought success but there has been some disappointing days too under his reign. Maybe he doesnt have the players I dont know but better managers have made better players out of other teams.

Is that not whats happening?

Orizio

Ok its bad for a Corkman to say this to a fellow Cork man but keep the Red and White tinted glasses on so if thats what you think.

...christ.

teednab-el wrote: »

Pierce is a very average forward to be fair, hardly intercounty level to be real about it.

Utter nonsense.

Timmy was definately better as a hurler but no way was he a top class forward.

I didn't say he was. :rolleyes: I just said he was very valuable to Cork for years.

Also, if you are going to debate with nothing more then red herrings, then don't bother replying to my posts.

Orizio

sendit wrote: »

Is that not whats happening?

No.

teednab-el

Orizio wrote: »

Utter nonsense.

Chill a small bit. No need to be dismissing everything I say with rolling eyes etc.

All I said was that Pearse isnt up to intercounty standard, that is my opinion. They even think that in Kerry where I work, and they are no bad fools when it comes to football. Don't get worked up. You have a different opinion on him fair enough, but what is your argument then saying he is worth his place on this team? Answer that.

The reason I say he isn't up to intercounty standard is because how many points on average does he score in the big games? What did he score the last day? What did he score against Down and Kerry in this years championship for that matter? He is barely noticed when Cork play Kerry. The only time I saw he had an impact was the 2008 All Ireland Semi Final, since then every other encounter with Kerry he has not been seen on the pitch. Consistency is key and he isn't consistent. Hes a great athlete but that's it to be fair.

Rebel1977

Not a lot of wing forwards are high scorers more of high work rate

keep going

put it the other way around. what young players have you seen out there than you think might have potential and lets make a rule here no one from your own club.saw donal og hodnet playing from skibb reckon he is as good as i v seen with a bit

Orizio

Barry O'Driscoll, Peter Daly, James Fitzpatrick, Mark Collins and Damien Cahalane are five that should be given a good run the league next year.

Orizio

Rebel1977 wrote: »

Not a lot of wing forwards are high scorers more of high work rate

Pearse invariably pops up with a point or two in most games and is our biggest goal threat. He also wins a load of ball, loads of frees and works exceedingly hard. Basically, he is one of our best players.

The_Kew_Tour

Orizio wrote: »

Pearse invariably pops up with a point or two in most games and is our biggest goal threat. He also wins a load of ball, loads of frees and works exceedingly hard. Basically, he is one of our best players.

not any one of those is true

Orizio

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

not any one of those is true

:rolleyes: Well you've persuaded me.

Look, head on over to RebelGAA, start a thread on Pearse and see what the hardcore support have to say about him. It'll be overwhelmingly positive, and these are the people that go to every Cork and club game, whatever grade, age group etc.

ciarriaithuaidh

Orizio wrote: »

Pearse invariably pops up with a point or two in most games and is our biggest goal threat. He also wins a load of ball, loads of frees and works exceedingly hard. Basically, he is one of our best players.

Name one big game (AI semi or final) he has had a big impact in?

teednab-el

Orizio wrote: »

Pearse invariably pops up with a point or two in most games and is our biggest goal threat. He also wins a load of ball, loads of frees and works exceedingly hard. Basically, he is one of our best players.

I've rarely seen it enough in championship games to suggest that he's good enough at inter-county level.

TopOfTheRight

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Name one big game (AI semi or final) he has had a big impact in?

2009 semi vs. Tyrone he was absolutely superb

Orizio

TopOfTheRight wrote: »

2009 semi vs. Tyrone he was absolutely superb

He also got an All-star in 2009, but nonetheless, still not inter-county standard.

teednab-el

Orizio wrote: »

TopOfTheRight wrote: »

2009 semi vs. Tyrone he was absolutely superb

He also got an All-star in 2009, but nonetheless, still not inter-county standard.

We have yet to see him perform against Kerry.

Orizio

teednab-el wrote: »

We have yet to see him perform against Kerry.

...you can extend this the majority of the current Cork squad.

ciarriaithuaidh

Orizio wrote: »

He also got an All-star in 2009, but nonetheless, still not inter-county standard.

Actually that game showed exactly what he couldn't do. Despite being virtually unmarked for most of the game, and getting a clear run on goal several times, he scored only 1 point (a fisted effort) and mostly elected to pass the buck to others resulting in missed goal chances. Any decent centre forward could have been involved in about 3-7 that day through assists or scoring themselves, but the obvious problem with Pearse is that he can't kick a point from 30 yards +...in the Dublin game last year he received possession quite a few times just to the right of the goals less than 35 yards out. Once - he tried a shot which went hopelessly wide, every other time he resorted to shovelling possession outside to a team-mate, which the defenders knew he would and were thus able to concentrate on the others. Any forward playing with a top 5 team would have either A)At least had the ability to kick a score from those positions 75% + of the time or Been able to dummy back inside on the left foot and then take a score or pop the ball out to a team mate who could, but again, Pearse can't kick with the left. His only skill is running fast in straight lines with the ball...but what good is that when you are a poor finisher and passer? He has got the odd goal this way, but apart from one in the 2008 semi were against low grade opposition.
So, keep thinking he's Allstar material, keep picking him in your forward line by all means...but it will only aid your opponents.

homerjay2005

alot of knee jerk reactions here, very few will go apart from normal turn over in squads. the likes of canty, miskella, kissane, o neill will all be involved next year if fit.murphy is a tough one to call, he could retire but he is not that crucial to them anymore anyway.

counihan is a good manager deserves another year, even 2 if he wants. it is not his fault that some of the players aint good enough, he can only pick whats in front of him. one player who ive seen time and time again and think he would be the most over rated player in ireland is fintan goold. anytime ive seen him play against kerry, we normally end up winning, he is the poorest player ive seen play for cork. cork need to find something else apart from him, im sure they have better.

keep going

Orizio wrote: »

Barry O'Driscoll, Peter Daly, James Fitzpatrick, Mark Collins and Damien Cahalane are five that should be given a good run the league next year.

ah lads give it a rest about poneill, we all have our favourites and fellas we dont rate
peter daly is from where?