NASCAR V8 Vs F1 V8 (Engine Nerd Alert)

SouperComputer

Interesting article. I figured the designers for the NASCAR motors are much better than they get credit for, I never expected the BMEP to this THIS close for both engines:

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/comparison_of_cup_to_f1.htm

gs39t

Did not understand 85% of article.

However, having heard both in person, Cup engines literally shake the earth so they are better

Grim.

love the sound of cup car engines

SouperComputer

gs39t wrote: »

Did not understand 85% of article.

However, having heard both in person, Cup engines literally shake the earth so they are better

Basically, BMEP and MPS are the most accurate way of calculating how efficient at making power an engine is, it removes engine size and most other factors out of the equation. At peak power, the motors are within 4% of each other in BMEP and at peak torque there is <1% difference. Consider how resticted the NASCAR engine is (pushrod engine design, two valves per cylinder sucking on a four barrel carb) and thats pretty impressive IMO.

Cookie_Monster

SouperComputer wrote: »

Consider how resticted the NASCAR engine is (pushrod engine design, two valves per cylinder sucking on a four barrel carb) and thats pretty impressive IMO.

why are they so restricted? Is 2 valves + carb still the norm in the US for road cars?

Grim.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why are they so restricted? Is 2 valves + carb still the norm in the US for road cars?

not sure but id imagine its to keep costs down they are switching to direct fuel injection next year though

SouperComputer

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why are they so restricted? Is 2 valves + carb still the norm in the US for road cars?

Not sure why the rules are this way. I would say continuity has a lot to do with it. The base design goes back to the 50's and hasn't changed much since. Although Toyota threw a couple of spanners in the works. In terms of road cars, most of the V8s are using EFI in the last 10-15 years for sure, maybe beyond that. Theres nothing on the road thats running carbs here from the factory thats for sure. Are Ford still selling the endura pushrod engine in Europe?

gs39t

LIGHTNING wrote: »

If they switch to EFI it gets rid of all the messing about with carbs and float levels etc! But then you get into all that ECU crap and having to standardise them to stop people messing about with engine mappings etc.

I think McLaren are actually making the EFI system, and Ron Dennis i believe it was says the new system is tamperproof.

Someone will try it, though. (MWR :pac:)

ianobrien

I remember reading Keith Duckworth's comment to Ford USA when asked to have a look at their NASCAR engine (this was just after he designed the DFV). He suggested putting arrows in the ports, to tell the air which way to go the ports were so big. The NASCAR engine designs have improved since then.

Still, getting 10k rpm from a pushrod is nothing new. Broadspeed was going that back in the 60's and 70's.

amacachi

How long have NASCAR had with basically the same regulations?

smooch71

amacachi wrote: »

How long have NASCAR had with basically the same regulations?

Since 1872 I think.

SouperComputer

smooch71 wrote: »

Since 1872 I think.

LOL
I guess its depends on how granular you want to be about the regs. For example they made some cylinder wall thickness changes "recently" to slow the Toyotas down. Didnt work mind you. In terms of the 350ci across the board setup, I'm not sure when that happened. Sometime between the 70's and 80's.

@ianobrien How long did broadspeed's 10K V8 pushrod motors have to last between teardowns?

TBH I think a lot of you guys are missing the point. If the BMEP had come within 15-20% I would have been surprised and impressed, but within 5% is pretty nuts. Slag em off as much as you want in terms of being in the dark ages, but they clearly know how to get good volumetric efficiency from a pretty low tech lump of cast iron and alooominum.