Is the end of Strikeforce coming faster than expected?

DrPhilG

It was always a likely option after the Zuffa takeover, even moreso when Diaz jumped across.

But now we have

• the conclusive end of Fedor as a top level HW (that's not bashing, just common sense after 3 losses in a row with 1 a complete battering and 1 a loss to a MW/LHW)
• Overeem cut
• Diaz gone
• Henderson's future uncertain

Currently 3 of the 7 Strikeforce belts are vacant after Santos, Overeem and Diaz's departures. Melendez has admitted that he would be tempted to follow in Diaz's footsteps and vacate to go to the UFC. Henderson is riding high and just stuck a nail in Fedor's coffin which means he might now be worthy of the kind of contract the UFC didn't think he was when he left. The women's divisions are horribly thin too with the 2 biggest stars currently missing (Cyborg and Carano).

Is Strikeforce reaching breaking point already?

weemcd

After the conclusion of the HW GP this year(?) Strikeforce may possibly have one more Hendo fight, but as you say, he is up in the air. The best fights as far as "name" fighters facing each other have happened in the GP already, the brackets for that tourney were very lop-sided to begin with. Aside from HW they should be able to crown a welterweight champ, but after that it runs fairly thin on fights I would be interested in seeing. Personally women's MMA doesn't interest me very much atm, and I don't really see that changing. I'd be interested in seeing what other posters think on the situation, but you do get the feeling this is just a matter of time, has happened already before with Pride & WEC.

Oh_Noes

Yeah I would say so, you can even bo back to the UFC's aquisition of Jake Shields as a starting point. Since then they've also lost Mayhem and Diaz to the UFC. That's three of their top fighters. There's no doubt that this time a year or so ago, Strikeforce was a much stronger product.

It will only be a good thing in the end though, the UFC won't take all the fighters and they'll be picked up by the likes of Bellator, MFC, DREAM and maybe the new One FC/ProElite organisations. So the wheel keeps turning, this time a few years ago we could watch PRIDE, UFC, Elite XC and Affliction came along too. It seems to be unfolding the same way this time.

It would be nice in theory to always just have UFC being the only show in town but it does get a bit spent when there is a card every week; the same commentators, same music, always on at the same time etc. Now that the number two organisation seems to be winding down, the other organisations can take a bit of a step up and provide a much needed alternative.

riffmongous

Aye as Weemcd said above after the GP concludes a lot of the divisions will have run out of interesting fights.. but maybe instead of absorbing Strikeforce Zuffa could actually send some of their talent over to flesh out the divisions?

At this stage Strikeforce is a well established brand that is quite distinct to the UFC, it has it's own production style and with the exception of the last card I've felt they even have more action. I also like how Strikeforce fighter have non-exclusive contracts so that we get to see more Japanese based talent.
Instead of doing away with all this Zuffa could transfer fighters from some of the more stacked divisions (without turning it into a glorified 'Fight Night') I think there's plenty of guys at LW and WW who could benefit from more exposure and are above FN level, or fighters who have been on a losing streak but are too valuable to just sack, guys like Akiyama, old Tito, Nelson, Sherk and so on. Zuffa keeps them under contract and relevant, if they win a few fights you can just send them back.

DrPhilG

riffmongous wrote: »

Aye as Weemcd said above after the GP concludes a lot of the divisions will have run out of interesting fights.. but maybe instead of absorbing Strikeforce Zuffa could actually send some of their talent over to flesh out the divisions?

At this stage Strikeforce is a well established brand that is quite distinct to the UFC, it has it's own production style and with the exception of the last card I've felt they even have more action. I also like how Strikeforce fighter have non-exclusive contracts so that we get to see more Japanese based talent.
Instead of doing away with all this Zuffa could transfer fighters from some of the more stacked divisions (without turning it into a glorified 'Fight Night') I think there's plenty of guys at LW and WW who could benefit from more exposure and are above FN level, or fighters who have been on a losing streak but are too valuable to just sack, guys like Akiyama, old Tito, Nelson, Sherk and so on. Zuffa keeps them under contract and relevant, if they win a few fights you can just send them back.

I always liked that idea, but they could have done that with the WEC and didn't. Even when the WEC had the heavier weight classes I can't think of anyone who moved from the UFC to the WEC in the way you're suggesting.

If SF did survive I'd expect the UFC to rebrand it a bit, "UFC presents Strikeforce" or something like that. The UFC have worked hard to create the common misconception that UFC is the name of the sport, rather than MMA. I can't see them promoting a product that dilutes that brand identity.

riffmongous

DrPhilG wrote: »

I always liked that idea, but they could have done that with the WEC and didn't. Even when the WEC had the heavier weight classes I can't think of anyone who moved from the UFC to the WEC in the way you're suggesting.

If SF did survive I'd expect the UFC to rebrand it a bit, "UFC presents Strikeforce" or something like that. The UFC have worked hard to create the common misconception that UFC is the name of the sport, rather than MMA. I can't see them promoting a product that dilutes that brand identity.

I think the problem with the WEC was that they made it look like a 'UFC Lite', I think Strikeforce is very distinct at the moment, for it to succeed they'd have to keep Strikeforce's current production. Changing the rules already was a mistake I think.

The UFC or MMA point is pretty interesting at the moment, I'd just hope that as the sport gets more mainstream attention people will cop on to it, it's not helped by the likes of ESPN covering UFC rather than MMA. They might be better then to keep Strikeforce and rebrand it maybe than let another org spring up in its place? With the WEC they were able to take on an entire roster but if they axe Strikeforce a lot of big names will want to go elsewhere.

JoeyJJ

I would like them to lose Hendo straight away, would love to see Hendo take on Lyoto with the winner possibly in line for a title shot if Tito wins, if Rashed wins he will get the shot, maybe Hendo/Lyoto could fight the loser of Jones/Rampage.

threeball

UFC would be foolish to wind it up. Theres lots of good fighters in the UFC who keep falling short of a title challange but are great to watch. They should be shipped out to strikeforce and if they make good there, they get another chance in the UFC.

They would also be served well in having Strikeforce fill the position of the 2nd biggest promoter so as to preserve a buffer between themselves and the other up and coming organisations. The stables idea has been done before (hollywood in its infancy) and it only lasts so long before the fighters will want to go elsewhere. The UFC would be in a stronger position if they were the top two rather than the number one alone.

dave1982

DrPhilG wrote: »

It was always a likely option after the Zuffa takeover, even moreso when Diaz jumped across.

But now we have

• the conclusive end of Fedor as a top level HW (that's not bashing, just common sense after 3 losses in a row with 1 a complete battering and 1 a loss to a MW/LHW)
• Overeem cut
• Diaz gone
• Henderson's future uncertain

Currently 3 of the 7 Strikeforce belts are vacant after Santos, Overeem and Diaz's departures. Melendez has admitted that he would be tempted to follow in Diaz's footsteps and vacate to go to the UFC. Henderson is riding high and just stuck a nail in Fedor's coffin which means he might now be worthy of the kind of contract the UFC didn't think he was when he left. The women's divisions are horribly thin too with the 2 biggest stars currently missing (Cyborg and Carano).

Is Strikeforce reaching breaking point already?

NO!!!

It's business as usual;)

Seriously once the Showtime contract expires it's gone,unless the UFC make a deal like they did WEC and Versus .

Xlami

It's gonna be very interesting to see what happens. I think it should continue as a seperate entity. I remember hearing an interview with Ben Saunders who is a true UFC Vet with 7 fights. He said after being cut he knew if he signed with SF then the UFC would never take him back. With it under Zuffa control fighters won't be in this situation, as we saw Jardine resign straight after the purchase. Also one of SF's main strenghts was that it was the no. 2 org. If it is merged Bellator have that selling point. And most importantly they are still atracting great young talent. Guys like Daniel Cormier, Tarrec Saffedine, OSP, Caros Fodor (and my new favorite fighter Derek Brunson). These guys are more promising than the UFC's current young fighters.

garysully1986

dave1982 wrote: »

NO!!!

It's business as usual;)

Seriously once the Showtime contract expires it's gone,unless the UFC make a deal like they did WEC and Versus .

I Completely agree, The big picture is they have a TV Contract with Showtime that they cannot just cancel because the stronger fighters have left, Unless the ratings take a strong dive I cannot see Showtime allowing Zuffa out of this contract so there will be a few years left yet!

I can see once they do integrate that there will be a bi monthly UFC event and to make it fair to fans title fights will be a full paying PPV and non title events will be at a reduced cost or on network television

cowzerp

Not suprised at all, they only kept it going to get a few last pay days before dismantling it pride style..

Richy06

I don't think that's the case. Strikeforce is loosing money hand over fist - especially on the like of the event this past weekend with the huge fees to Fedor/Henderson. The contract with Showtime is the only reason they haven't folded the brand.

DrPhilG

garysully1986 wrote: »

Unless the ratings take a strong dive I cannot see Showtime allowing Zuffa out of this contract so there will be a few years left yet!

Maybe that's the plan? Zuffa can't cancel the contract but if they weaken the brand so much that the ratings stink, maybe Showtime will pull the plug?

Ian Whelan

If you are a realistic competitor the UFC will just buy you out and shut you down.

JoeyJJ

Well Fedor has been cut, so another of its stars gone.

fightireland

cowzerp wrote: »

Not suprised at all, they only kept it going to get a few last pay days before dismantling it pride style..

Agree with cowzerp here - if they did it once with Pride.

Twice with WEC

Then you can rest assured they will fold and Strikeforce will become past-tense.

Oh_Noes

Just noticed Joe Stevenson has been cut too. Not Strikeforce but under the same Fertita umbrella.

Nice time to be a MMA promoter with all these free agents suddenly floating around.

DrPhilG

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Just noticed Joe Stevenson has been cut too. Not Strikeforce but under the same Fertita umbrella.

Nice time to be a MMA promoter with all these free agents suddenly floating around.

Only surprise with Joe is that it didn't come earlier. Lost 4 in a row including after dropping a class.

calex71

Pride can be taken out of the equation as it was an equal / competition imo but WEC even though owned by zuffa and SF had something unique to offer the market. Lower weight classes and and womens mma .... token as it is.

WEC being merged with UFC I will never understand or forgive, they held consistently great events, now the remaining fighters are being buried on UFC undercards as I expected would happen , Mike Brown and Nam Pham at 133 UFC example :mad:

Mellor

calex71 wrote: »

WEC being merged with UFC I will never understand or forgive, they held consistently great events, now the remaining fighters are being buried on UFC undercards as I expected would happen , Mike Brown and Nam Pham at 133 UFC example :mad:

I disagree with this tbh.
Nam Pham isn't a main card fighter, Brown was, but will have to work back up. I don't see that as being any different to Hamill on the UC.

Ebersole shouldn't be on the main card, but it put on a show, as annoying as he was.

The WEC wasn't dismantled, being merged into the UFC was the best thing to happen to the fighters. Like it or not the UFC has the biggest casual fanbase, the likes of Cruz, Aldo, Mighty mouse deserve to get the exposure. There have been BW and FW main card fights, over time they'll be no different imo.

The main reason I think its good for the fighters is fight purses. The WEC was non PPV, it had a great following from MMA fans, but PPV buys are built on the masses. A lack of PPV buys, means lower turnover, which means lower purses. We are still in the interim period where WEC guys are serving out their 16k contracts (zuffa is still a business after all) but if they make a name, put in a show for the fans and do well in the UFC, they can negotiate the moneys they deserve.

The reason the likes of Clay Guida stayed as LW and not FW was the money. Merging gives him a shot a belt in a division where is is competive. (He won't beat aldo, but christ i'd love to see the little caveman try)

weemcd

mmafighting.com

'Business as Usual' Means Death of Strikeforce
Dana White's mantra after UFC parent company Zuffa purchased its biggest rival, Strikeforce, was "Business as usual." What he supposedly meant was that Strikeforce could continue to run as its own independent entity.

What White actually meant was that he would add another promotion to his tombstone.

...Showtime has to see what the rest of us can see: Strikeforce is going in the direction of Pride and Affliction before it: A promotion that put on a lot of great fights, but was ultimately swallowed whole by the UFC.

Good article outlining the challenges Strikeforce have at the moment, makes it pretty impossible to see how they can continue as a company who draws large numbers of people to watch their fight cards.