My First Novel - Almost Ready To Start

karaokeman

I am 19 just going into college to do Arts in a month and I'm already planning my first novel.

I was wondering is my plan for how I want to write the novel correct and would it work?

My plan is this;

1. Character Profiles - I've written the profiles for most of the main characters and will have this ready before I start writing chapter 1

2. Full Outline Plan - This is a one-page description of the whole story behind the novel, including the back story, main story and so fort. I used this to make sure I've already thought about the ending before I write the first chapter

3. Chapter Plans - This is a summary of every chapter from 1-13. I will build upon these summaries when I start writing by writing about what is described in full detail

Also has anyone any ideas on how I should go about writing a story that will be successful. As in a Sunday Times #1 bestseller like The Boy In The Striped Pyjamas.

The plot I think is interesting because it seems to be to many more people nowadays.

Asry

I tend to start with a general idea, not a plan. Rigid rules never work for me, as regards writing, but like that's just me, you know?. Everyone's different. Needless to say, my novel is undergoing billions of rejections, but perhaps I'm just not that great at long things. The short stories do well.

As regards "how do you write a #1 bestseller" um ... if someone could tell you that, everyone would be drinking g+ts on yachts made of gold in the Bahamas right now.

Good luck though. It's bloody hard work and it could take years. Or not. I guess you'll be finding out It's not about the status and the money and all that. Remember that. It's about the process, the getting to the end. About doing it because you do it and it makes you happy. If you spend your time chasing a magical formula to make you rich or famous or whatever... I've heard it doesn't work out.

EileenG

There are lots of different ways of writing, and starting with your characters all developed and your plot laid out is one way.

Bear in mind, what you are writing is a first draft, not a finished novel, and often what separates the published and unpublished novels is the amount of rewriting, editing and polishing that has gone into the story, not the structure or the plot.

Don't set out to write a Number One bestseller, that's almost certainly a route to disaster, you'll end up trying to write to a formula and be afraid to take chances. Instead, aim to write the book that you would love to read.

Antilles

I look at my first attempt at a novel as a learning experience. The end product was really terrible but the lessons I learned writing it really helped later on.

karaokeman

Thanks for all the replies.

Asry wrote: »

I tend to start with a general idea, not a plan. Rigid rules never work for me, as regards writing, but like that's just me, you know?. Everyone's different. Needless to say, my novel is undergoing billions of rejections, but perhaps I'm just not that great at long things. The short stories do well..

Its actually morely just a general idea but the chapter plans and so fort are really just guidelines to make sure I won't have too much/too less of the story in one chapter.

Antilles wrote: »

I look at my first attempt at a novel as a learning experience. The end product was really terrible but the lessons I learned writing it really helped later on.

This is actually what I'm worried about so I will get back on it now.

I'm interested in the whole prospect of rejections.

Would I be better to write the first chapter and send it off for review? This seems like a much better option than writing a draft of the full book and having it checked before editing and rewriting.

EileenG wrote: »

Bear in mind, what you are writing is a first draft, not a finished novel, and often what separates the published and unpublished novels is the amount of rewriting, editing and polishing that has gone into the story, not the structure or the plot.

This is why I wrote my last reply to Antilles' comment.

EileenG

No, write the whole thing. There's a very good chance that when you've finished your first draft, you'll go back and change the beginning. You'll almost certainly cut the first chapter. For most writers, the first chapter is a sort of running on the spot as they get their characters sorted out and establish their voice for this book, and the second or third chapter is where the story really starts.

You can always get reviews of it as you go along. Have you joined Write Club?

Antilles

karaokeman wrote: »

This is why I wrote my last reply to Antilles' comment.

Actually I'm quite happy that I made a mess of my first attempt. What I meant above was that you shouldn't be afraid to make mistakes, that even if you do muck it up (and I'm not saying you will) that you'll learn from it and come out the other side a better writer.

Before I started writing my novel, I'd read the advice given on forums like this one and others, and thought I had a decent handle on how I'd go about writing. Most of the advice I got was right but there's a difference between getting the advice and understanding it first hand. My first attempt gave me a fundamental understanding of the mistakes people make, and how I could avoid them in future.

MiseEireannach

It helps if your father is an ex-taoiseach...;)

EileenG

MiseEireannach wrote: »

It helps if your father is an ex-taoiseach...;)

It might help to get it published, but it won't make people buy it. And it certainly won't make people buy your second.

FewFew

karaokeman wrote: »

My plan is this;

1. Character Profiles - I've written the profiles for most of the main characters and will have this ready before I start writing chapter 1

2. Full Outline Plan - This is a one-page description of the whole story behind the novel, including the back story, main story and so fort. I used this to make sure I've already thought about the ending before I write the first chapter

3. Chapter Plans - This is a summary of every chapter from 1-13. I will build upon these summaries when I start writing by writing about what is described in full detail

That's nearly exactly how I do it, though the character outlines would come in at 3 for me.
Normally I'll get an idea and the whole book just spills out of my mind, so I furiously write down a one page summary or a "What has to happen in this book" page. Then it's a case of laying down the building blocks in order. The characters begin to take shape to serve the story and are then shaped by the story.

If you're like me you'll find the hard part is grrrrrinding out those full chapters when you've already written the whole thing in your mind.

MiseEireannach

EileenG wrote: »

It might help to get it published, but it won't make people buy it. And it certainly won't make people buy your second.

Eh - it was a joke - hence the emoticon. Sometimes a bit of humour doesn't go amiss in a novel....

joan mack

When you get writers cramp and leave aside a novel you consider reasonably good, How when you go back to it, do you familiarise with your characters again. Their ages, their employment their conflicts etc

EileenG

Read what you've written so far, and that should do it. Also, it's worth keeping a notebook with you as you write, where you put down things like in which chapter you've arranged for two characters to meet, where someone's backstory comes in, where you've sown the seeds of conflict etc. That way, you should be able to pick up what you've already written and what still needs to be written.

Asry

joan mack wrote: »

When you get writers cramp and leave aside a novel you consider reasonably good, How when you go back to it, do you familiarise with your characters again. Their ages, their employment their conflicts etc

I just printed my ms again there yesterday and haven't read it in a year. It's like reading something written by someone else and therefore very easy to slash apart.

karaokeman

EileenG wrote: »

No, write the whole thing. There's a very good chance that when you've finished your first draft, you'll go back and change the beginning. You'll almost certainly cut the first chapter. For most writers, the first chapter is a sort of running on the spot as they get their characters sorted out and establish their voice for this book, and the second or third chapter is where the story really starts.

You can always get reviews of it as you go along. Have you joined Write Club?

No I haven't joined the Write Club but I will certainly look into it.

I don't know about cutting the first chapter yet. I want the first chapter to be about the main protagonists parents because they do provide an interesting backstory, which would be very effective if this is shown before introducing the main characters.

But I guess I could do two chapters about that and cut out the first. I find it harder to make sense out of the main story if its shown first in a story so thats why I want to do the first chapter about the backstory.

Asry

People always say to start in the middle of a scene though. Just jump right into the action and let people catch up.

Keeps them excited and wanting to learn about what the hell is going on.

RedXIV

karaokeman wrote: »

Its actually morely just a general idea but the chapter plans and so forth are really just guidelines to make sure I won't have too much/too less of the story in one chapter.

the word is forth!

Sorry but you did it twice and it's hard to have sympathy for an aspiring writing who can't spell

EileenG

karaokeman wrote: »

No I haven't joined the Write Club but I will certainly look into it.

I don't know about cutting the first chapter yet. I want the first chapter to be about the main protagonists parents because they do provide an interesting backstory, which would be very effective if this is shown before introducing the main characters.

But I guess I could do two chapters about that and cut out the first. I find it harder to make sense out of the main story if its shown first in a story so thats why I want to do the first chapter about the backstory.

Do not start with backstory. Guaranteed killer. Instant rejection.

It's almost always better to start with your main character, and with your main character in the middle of a scene.

If you start with the parents, and make them sympathetic so that the reader wants to keep reading, you could end up with them being the ones the reader is rooting for. And if they are not important enough to keep in the book, why start with them?

Asry

RedXIV wrote: »

the word is forth!

Sorry but you did it twice and it's hard to have sympathy for an aspiring writing who can't spell

Misspelling annoys me (but misused punctuation annoys me far more) but I want to point out as well that WB Yeats couldn't spell properly at all.

karaokeman

EileenG wrote: »

Do not start with backstory. Guaranteed killer. Instant rejection.

It's almost always better to start with your main character, and with your main character in the middle of a scene.

If you start with the parents, and make them sympathetic so that the reader wants to keep reading, you could end up with them being the ones the reader is rooting for. And if they are not important enough to keep in the book, why start with them?

Ok so telling the backstory first in the finished piece (without the first cut out chapter) is a no no.

What about if half of the first chapter, which I will later cut out is about the backstory and then halfway through I introduce the main protagonist and the chapter will end with him in a scene.

That means when the first chapter is cut out it will leave a scene to take place for the real first chapter.

Magicnumber

I too have decided to actually take the plunge and begin writing the novel that has been niggling away at me for years. It turns out however, that once I began I could not stop and it has spiralled into several different novels, different characters/events.

I am new to this site and to posting (my very first!) and I would like to thank you all for giving some great tips. At the moment I am finding it hard to keep one idea in my head without it dragging along another, so for me a well organised plan just does not seem possible! So far I have filled nine notebooks with what I can only describe as spin-offs or tourettes, of the original novel.

My question to all who have felt both success and rejection is, how best to approach a publisher ... My father is not an ex-Taoiseach

EileenG

karaokeman wrote: »

Ok so telling the backstory first in the finished piece (without the first cut out chapter) is a no no.

What about if half of the first chapter, which I will later cut out is about the backstory and then halfway through I introduce the main protagonist and the chapter will end with him in a scene.

That means when the first chapter is cut out it will leave a scene to take place for the real first chapter.

If it helps you to start writing, then include the backstory in your first draft. But be prepared to cut it out when you go back to edit. Obviously there are exceptions, but it's very rarely a good idea to introduce any backstory before at least chapter three.

Introduce you main character as soon as possible, and throw him into a situation that makes the reader (and agent and publisher) want to know what happens next.

Think of films you have seen. They never stop to give chunks of backstory. If a little history is necessary, it's usually implied with a few telling words or actions, not a big chunk of narration or voice-over. If you were making a film of your book, where would you start? Not with the parents, I bet.

EileenG

Magicnumber wrote: »

I am new to this site and to posting (my very first!) and I would like to thank you all for giving some great tips. At the moment I am finding it hard to keep one idea in my head without it dragging along another, so for me a well organised plan just does not seem possible! So far I have filled nine notebooks with what I can only describe as spin-offs or tourettes, of the original novel.

My question to all who have felt both success and rejection is, how best to approach a publisher ... My father is not an ex-Taoiseach

First write a great book. No amount of advice on pitching can replace a great book. Go and write your book, finish it (never ever approach anyone with unfinished MS), then go back and cut, rewrite, edit, polish and repeat until you are sick of looking at it, but your book is as close to perfect as you can get it.

I know you are going to hate this, but it's probably going to take a year from when you finish your first draft before you can think of approaching a publisher. It really does take that long to do the endless rewrites and edits necessary.

Then approach your publisher. There are still some Irish publishers (O'Brien is one) who will accept unsolicited manuscripts direct from the author. Send in a a brief polite cover letter, a synopsis and the first three chapters.

As for the tourettes, you might find it useful to write your blurb first, then write the book of the blurb. A friend who is a playwright was advised to write the review she would like to get for her play, and found this a very useful exercise on keeping focused on what she wanted to project.

Hrududu

EileenG wrote: »

A friend who is a playwright was advised to write the review she would like to get for her play, and found this a very useful exercise on keeping focused on what she wanted to project.

Thats a really good idea

FewFew

Magicnumber wrote: »

I too have decided to actually take the plunge and begin writing the novel that has been niggling away at me for years. It turns out however, that once I began I could not stop and it has spiralled into several different novels, different characters/events.

I am new to this site and to posting (my very first!) and I would like to thank you all for giving some great tips. At the moment I am finding it hard to keep one idea in my head without it dragging along another, so for me a well organised plan just does not seem possible! So far I have filled nine notebooks with what I can only describe as spin-offs or tourettes, of the original novel.

See, this has always been a problem for me too. I have so many half finished novels lying about the place. It just takes discipline. I began writing a novel a few years back and finished. It's now sketched out to be a trilogy with the main protagonist, one prequel with a different character, two novellas focusing on the novel world but a different angle, and a final book that stretchs over the course of the other four and is going to be my crowning glory (I hope). So, only sketched out the last book this week, and I'm eager to get stuck in, but that's what the old me would do and I'd have no end product. Instead I'm trying to bust in some will power and actually write the books in order (which is oddly 1, 2, 0, 3, 4. Currently writing book zero. )
So, just pick your main novel, sit down with it and write. Keep taking a note of your other ideas, but don't let them distract you. Writing is hard work, one needs to get one's graft on.

Asry

Hrududu wrote: »

Thats a really good idea

Yeah my fiction lecturer told me to do this too, and it's great. Just be balanced doing it, and honest about your shortcomings. It helps you notice them and improve

Magicnumber

EileenG wrote: »

First write a great book. No amount of advice on pitching can replace a great book. Go and write your book, finish it (never ever approach anyone with unfinished MS), then go back and cut, rewrite, edit, polish and repeat until you are sick of looking at it, but your book is as close to perfect as you can get it.

I know you are going to hate this, but it's probably going to take a year from when you finish your first draft before you can think of approaching a publisher. It really does take that long to do the endless rewrites and edits necessary.

Then approach your publisher. There are still some Irish publishers (O'Brien is one) who will accept unsolicited manuscripts direct from the author. Send in a a brief polite cover letter, a synopsis and the first three chapters.

As for the tourettes, you might find it useful to write your blurb first, then write the book of the blurb. A friend who is a playwright was advised to write the review she would like to get for her play, and found this a very useful exercise on keeping focused on what she wanted to project.

Thanks for the tip! Really good idea to do the review first, and have tried that out.

I am very aware that I have some great ideas, its the execution that seems to knock me off kilter, I feel so confident whilst writing and then I stop and think no one will care about what the hell I am trying to say! It frustrates me and I feel like just not bothering. But, I'm sure, many people on this thread have felt this also, I can't stop writing!! I just have a compulsion to do it!!

So the idea of putting a review down on a piece of made me see in black and white exactly what it is I feel my issues are and now I am working at them now.... still hasn't stopped me going off on a million different tangents, but I am working on just the FIRST one!!

Thank you all again

azzeretti

EileenG wrote: »

Do not start with backstory. Guaranteed killer. Instant rejection.

What about if its a prologue? I am planning out my first book and I have it starting out with an event that seems unrelated to the first chapter.

Is this a bad idea? (I actually hope to have it in Write Club in the next week or so! - the prologue that is)

EileenG

azzeretti wrote: »

What about if its a prologue? I am planning out my first book and I have it starting out with an event that seems unrelated to the first chapter.

Is this a bad idea? (I actually hope to have it in Write Club in the next week or so! - the prologue that is)

Prologues are out. Don't start with an event unrelated to the story. Why would you, you're just going to piss off your readers.

Okay, if you are writing a series book, and you need to bring new readers up to speed with what has happened in the other books, you can do a page of prologue. If it's a single title novel, then start with your main character.

Orson Scott Card used to do reviews, and he has always refused to read prologues, and says that he has never come across a book where not reading the prologue made any difference to his understanding of the story.

EileenG

Magicnumber wrote: »

I am very aware that I have some great ideas, its the execution that seems to knock me off kilter, I feel so confident whilst writing and then I stop and think no one will care about what the hell I am trying to say! It frustrates me and I feel like just not bothering. But, I'm sure, many people on this thread have felt this also, I can't stop writing!! I just have a compulsion to do it!!

For what it's worth, I think the only way to handle this is say "**** it," and write it as if no-one but you were going to see it. Don't think about how silly or embarrassing it might be, or wonder if you are making a fool of yourself. Just go for it, write it as honestly as you can, and hope your mother never sees it.