What is public service bashing ?

Drumpot

Dont really care if this turns into an us v them debate . . Had this discussion so many times with friends, family and on here and one thing has struck me . . Even though I completely hate the statement "Public service basher", I have begun to be conformed to the way the Unions want it to be interpreted . . I believe that they have built up this term to make people believe that to suggest that anything in the public service needs to be reformed, they are "attacking" a poor helpless minority . . I would go so far as to suggest that it actually brings out a certain feeling of racism in how these "victims" are portrayed . . Innocent pawns that had nothing to do with the way we find this country . .

The hypocricy is seldom lost on those on one side of the debate . . .

• Social Welfare "bashing"
• Special Needs children "bashing"
• Pensioners "bashing"
• Private Pensions "bashing"
• Tax payer "bashing"
• Etc etc etc

I personally think that there should be a phrase "bankers bashing" if we are to afford everybody the same level of empathy as our poor old "bashed" public service . .

I have found that once a debate on public service cuts etc, gets to a point and a person cant physically ignore any facts or contrary points to their self vested views, they throw out the "public service basher" card . . Like the famous saying "your saying this because I am black" . . Forget the facts, the reasoning behind cuts or indeed that the country is screwed and EVERYBODY is being attacked, one section of society has tailoured themselves a phrase that they feel wins any debate by default . .

So, what exactly is public service bashing and why is it unique to the public service?

FunkZ

That's a lot of questions Drumpot, have you ever thought of hosting your own TV quiz show?

squod

Restricting meself to bashing the dept. of finance. Complicit in the acts of treason which have ruined my country.

Public service bashing is where those who philosophically believe in a small, stripped down US Republican-style state put forward their agenda not in those traditional left/right terms, but instead resort to a narrative which suggests that those who work for the state are one step removed from dole fraudsters.

I don't think it's a very honest debate. If one doesn't believe in public service, a welfare state or government in general, then say so. Otherwise, stop using the recession as an excuse to demean those who just happen to draw their pay from the public sector rather than the private. Unless they were top-level departmental decisionmakers over the past ten years, chances are it's not their fault.

CatFromHue

What is public service bashing?..............................Fun and therapeutic!

Drumpot

Deleted User wrote: »

Public service bashing is where those who philosophically believe in a small, stripped down US Republican-style state put forward their agenda not in those traditional left/right terms, but instead resort to a narrative which suggests that those who work for the state are one step removed from dole fraudsters.

I don't think it's a very honest debate. If one doesn't believe in public service, a welfare state or government in general, then say so. Otherwise, stop using the recession as an excuse to demean those who just happen to draw their pay from the public sector rather than the private. Unless they were top-level departmental decisionmakers over the past ten years, chances are it's not their fault.

So anybody who thinks we need to cut our cloth according to our measure is a public service basher ? You seem to be suggesting that you can only love or hate the public service which is ridiculous.

I do believe in a public service and social welfare . . I just also believe that our government can only afford to pay what it has and like most employers, it has to cut its costs appropriatly which it has failed to do thus far.

In terms of your comments on whose fault it is, I am not sure what relevance that has to this debate . . How many people in the private sector were directly responsible for what has happened ? Knowing whose fault it was doesnt sort out our deficit . . This is another red herring argument that really ends up forcing these debates into a cul de sac .

Nijmegen

It's where we hand out €17.5bn (pay and pensions) to a group of people who tell us touching them won't help reduce our €18bn deficit and sure don't they deliver us a great service.

Pawwed Rig

Deleted User wrote: »

Unless they were top-level departmental decisionmakers over the past ten years, chances are it's not their fault.

It is everyones fault.
People refusing to do a task because 'that is not my job'. unions telling employees not to follow mangements instrctions. A culture of being self focused rather than customer focused.
The goverments fault for a lacl of policies and appeasement
Everyones fault for continuing to vote for the same clowns over and over

7sr2z3fely84g5

Well given many former ministers that worked hard but really sat on their arse,then retired before they where even 60 and wrecked the country and been rewarded with pensions that the country can barely afford to pay,i think the public have right to bash them.

Lockstep

The problem isn't that there are criticisms of the public sector. It's that every thread on the subject inevitably descends into trench warfare with both sides posting blinkered ****e in an attempt to back up conclusions they've already formed.
It's one of those Republican/Loyalist, Israel/Palestine threads that just seems incapable of being discussed properly.

Drumpot

Drumpot wrote: »

So anybody who thinks we need to cut our cloth according to our measure is a public service basher ?

I didn't say that at all. I said that many people are being dishonest in the debate. It's perfectly obvious that the public purse is stretched well beyond its means.

Drumpot wrote: »

Knowing whose fault it was doesnt sort out our deficit

It helps with your original question, which is already a lost cause it seems.

Damn! I forgot this was After Hours. Actually, I think it's all the fault of the British.

Drumpot

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't say that at all. I said that many people are being dishonest in the debate. It's perfectly obvious that the public purse is stretched well beyond its means.


It helps with your original question, which is already a lost cause it seems.

Damn! I forgot this was After Hours. Actually, I think it's all the fault of the British.

I agree that both sides to the debate can be dishonest . . I am simply saying that calling somebody a "public service basher" is used by many to simply avoid discussing points they dont like to awknowledge (certainly thats what I have seen and heard in most arguments).

As for the who's fault point, I still dont see the relevance . . Its subjective and in most cases, it was a small number of people (in public/private) who made the monumentally awful decisions that led us to where we are. In terms of collective responsibility as an electorate, I think its another debate, but usually the discussion of whose fault it is rests around the bankers being at fault for everything, and presuming that high level bankers represent everybody else in the private sector!

That aside, it still doesnt address the fact that we need to cut our deficit because we cannot afford to subsidise our deficit through the financial markets .. Even if it was 1000000% the fault of the bankers, how would that make any differance in how we will address the deficit ? We need banks to start making money and I am pretty confident that bankers dont have the billions we need to cut the deficit!

ardmacha

Bashing, as distinct from discussion, is when you have no interest in the detail of the issue but only in the limited point that accords with their prejudice.

ardmacha

ardmacha wrote: »

Bashing, as distinct from discussion, is when you have no interest in the detail of the issue but only in the limited point that accords with their prejudice.

I should have just said that, really.

Drumpot

ardmacha wrote: »

Bashing, as distinct from discussion, is when you have no interest in the detail of the issue but only in the limited point that accords with their prejudice.

That would be my understanding of what bashing would mean in this context . . .

So its fair to assume that many just use the phrase in any context to avoid debating things they dont really want to awknowledge . .