leonie fosters article

keep going

what did ye think of this article in the journal. i drove up through the country last monday and noticed that people have grand houses grand cars grand tractors and grand slated houses all well kept but the land is in s**t.there is shocking bad grassland management going on in alot of this country.getting more convinced that all these grants have got to go and farmers have got to start farming again.

Muckit

Have it here. What page?

bob charles

keep going wrote: »

what did ye think of this article in the journal. i drove up through the country last monday and noticed that people have grand houses grand cars grand tractors and grand slated houses all well kept but the land is in s**t.there is shocking bad grassland management going on in alot of this country.getting more convinced that all these grants have got to go and farmers have got to start farming again.

I havnt a clue what this guy/girl wrote or where it was published but from the post was it something to do with land use, or lack of it, or what? A big part of the problem is regulation that has forced farmers into spending money of capital infrastructure that will generate very little in return if anything at all ie, fancy buildings where they weren't needed, OTT slurry storage. Allot of this money should have being spent on improving the land as this generates a much better return on investment. only after a long number of years have we starting upgrading the yards and this has come about due to partly to enforcement. One piece of advice I will always give is to spend the least amount possible on a farm yard when starting out and all the cash on the land.

In my own county in the mid west there is some absolutely horrendous farming of quality land. For years the CAP has provided farmers with the incentive not to produce, probably not bad, as there is an oversupply in all of the main ag products produced in Ireland. we are still looking at a figures of 30% wastage of food. About time people cop on in fairness. Allot of the land in Ireland isnt the most suitable for production in the first place, some of the best soils in the world are as of yet to carry a crop.

Bizzum

Any time I want a kick up in the arse, I look at some of the local dairy farmers and how they utilize their grass. I always think the suckler farmers (like myself!) have some way to go!

5live

keep going wrote: »

what did ye think of this article in the journal. i drove up through the country last monday and noticed that people have grand houses grand cars grand tractors and grand slated houses all well kept but the land is in s**t.there is shocking bad grassland management going on in alot of this country.getting more convinced that all these grants have got to go and farmers have got to start farming again.

There is a lot of merit in what she wrote but in comparing ireland to NZ she lost the plot a bit imo.

Yes there is poor grassland management but it is improving year on year. Also in NZ there is no regulations for housing. We need a certain no. of weeks storage even if we never use it and it must be in place before the animal begins its life. There is no nitrogen or phosphorous regulations in NZ while we have limits on useage that they would define as deficient. They have growth rates in the 10s and 20s all through the winter while we struggle to get 5s and 6s for months. We are not allowed to keep animals out during wet weather where there is no restrictions there. They work really hard for 20 years to build up an asset base but have horrible divorce rates which are never mentioned as a by product of the lifestyle. We still have well rooted communities and informal support structures where they have very little.

As i said, accurate up to a point but not telling the whole truth

pakalasa

Bizzum wrote: »

Any time I want a kick up in the arse, I look at some of the local dairy farmers and how they utilize their grass. I always think the suckler farmers (like myself!) have some way to go!

Ya, I think all beef guys could learn a lot from their Dairy neighbours.

• Grass management
• Calving spread, calving at 2 years, conception rates
• Looking at PROFIT rather than producing fancy weanlings
• Getting up early rather than than hitting the snooze button on your day off.

leg wax

5live wrote: »

There is a lot of merit in what she wrote but in comparing ireland to NZ she lost the plot a bit imo.

Yes there is poor grassland management but it is improving year on year. Also in NZ there is no regulations for housing. We need a certain no. of weeks storage even if we never use it and it must be in place before the animal begins its life. There is no nitrogen or phosphorous regulations in NZ while we have limits on useage that they would define as deficient. They have growth rates in the 10s and 20s all through the winter while we struggle to get 5s and 6s for months. We are not allowed to keep animals out during wet weather where there is no restrictions there. They work really hard for 20 years to build up an asset base but have horrible divorce rates which are never mentioned as a by product of the lifestyle. We still have well rooted communities and informal support structures where they have very little.

As i said, accurate up to a point but not telling the whole truth

on your point of storage for slurry,is it different in your part of the country,the dept cannot force you to put animals in fact,they cannot tell you how long you have to leave animals in for fact,we are allowed to leave animals out in wet weather.now all the above go out the window if you have joined reps or other schemes thinking you are getting money when in fact you are restricted by rules and red tape.i have a friend who has 120 sucklers no sheds gets his payments no problem and he is doing nothing wrong .

irishh_bob

5live wrote: »

There is a lot of merit in what she wrote but in comparing ireland to NZ she lost the plot a bit imo.

Yes there is poor grassland management but it is improving year on year. Also in NZ there is no regulations for housing. We need a certain no. of weeks storage even if we never use it and it must be in place before the animal begins its life. There is no nitrogen or phosphorous regulations in NZ while we have limits on useage that they would define as deficient. They have growth rates in the 10s and 20s all through the winter while we struggle to get 5s and 6s for months. We are not allowed to keep animals out during wet weather where there is no restrictions there. They work really hard for 20 years to build up an asset base but have horrible divorce rates which are never mentioned as a by product of the lifestyle. We still have well rooted communities and informal support structures where they have very little.

As i said, accurate up to a point but not telling the whole truth

kiwis are idealogically opposed to spending any money on buildings , concrete or anything that provides an ounce of human comfort for that matter , the vast majority of land which is used for dairying in new zealand is free draining , even the free draining land in ireland is bog compared to the gravel pit that is new zealand , ireland isnt new zealand , we cant keep stock outside all year round , nothing wrong with having decent sheds , truth be told , at the moment a shed is cheaper than a wintering pad , was always cheaper in the long run

irishh_bob

5live wrote: »

There is a lot of merit in what she wrote but in comparing ireland to NZ she lost the plot a bit imo.

Yes there is poor grassland management but it is improving year on year. Also in NZ there is no regulations for housing. We need a certain no. of weeks storage even if we never use it and it must be in place before the animal begins its life. There is no nitrogen or phosphorous regulations in NZ while we have limits on useage that they would define as deficient. They have growth rates in the 10s and 20s all through the winter while we struggle to get 5s and 6s for months. We are not allowed to keep animals out during wet weather where there is no restrictions there. They work really hard for 20 years to build up an asset base but have horrible divorce rates which are never mentioned as a by product of the lifestyle. We still have well rooted communities and informal support structures where they have very little.

As i said, accurate up to a point but not telling the whole truth

divorce rates in new zealand are no higher than in the uk or the usa , i dont think that has anything to do with milking cows tbh , new zealand is practically an athiest country in comparison to ireland so that might have something to do with thier marriage breakdown statistics , agree about the lack of community spirit though but then again that is more an anglo - protestant culture thing , individualism etc

5live

leg wax wrote: »

on your point of storage for slurry,is it different in your part of the country,the dept cannot force you to put animals in fact,they cannot tell you how long you have to leave animals in for fact,we are allowed to leave animals out in wet weather.now all the above go out the window if you have joined reps or other schemes thinking you are getting money when in fact you are restricted by rules and red tape.i have a friend who has 120 sucklers no sheds gets his payments no problem and he is doing nothing wrong .

No they cant force you to put them in but there is no point in spending 100k on storage and sheds and leaving the cattle out. Your suckler friend must have 16 weeks storage for all his animals irrespective of whether he uses it or not (unless i missed something on the nitrates regulations) which has to be paid for from somewhere. Even dry land here will get destroyed under a typical irish winter if the animals are out and suffer both loss of production and cross compliance penalties. Virtually no regulations in NZ by comparison and animals can stay out with good growth and virtually no damage in comparison to here.

And 1k posts in a year:). I can retire now:p

johngalway

5live wrote: »

And 1k posts in a year:). I can retire now:p

:pac: Posters these days, no stamina

5live

irishh_bob wrote: »

divorce rates in new zealand are no higher than in the uk or the usa , i dont think that has anything to do with milking cows tbh , new zealand is practically an athiest country in comparison to ireland so that might have something to do with thier marriage breakdown statistics , agree about the lack of community spirit though but then again that is more an anglo - protestant culture thing , individualism etc

A friend of mine has married a kiwi (person, not a fruit) and she is amazed at the lack of esteem that farmers are saddled with here. She says that the near constant movement every 3 years or so to a new farm and the lack of roots in any community and the distance from family puts huge pressure on family life. She reckons divorce rates on farms are among the highest in the country. Now i am only going on one persons experience but some commentators in the journal have said the same, Paddy O Keeffe i think a few months ago.

All countries have their problems and strengths but if we take the best from NZ and apply it here we wont be doing too bad imo

johngalway

I would like to hear her suggestions for "...innovative ways to Winter dairy cows...". Easy to type out those few words but take away the sheds and suggest ways to accomplish it rather than just tell people to just do it

bob charles

leg wax wrote: »

on your point of storage for slurry,is it different in your part of the country,the dept cannot force you to put animals in fact,they cannot tell you how long you have to leave animals in for fact,we are allowed to leave animals out in wet weather.now all the above go out the window if you have joined reps or other schemes thinking you are getting money when in fact you are restricted by rules and red tape.i have a friend who has 120 sucklers no sheds gets his payments no problem and he is doing nothing wrong .

Your friend is either not complying with the regulations our he is coming in under the reduced storage requirements and even at this I nearly certain that he still has to have some element of storage and he can be above 140kgs N per Ha. Maybe he is farming a vast area with only 120 suck cows. when his day of fait comes he will be in a little bit of bother I can assure you as it Nitrates directive is enforcable by a court if say he isnt claiming SFP. Your right they cannot make you put your animals off the land but you will have to have the storage facilities which or wether. If animals are poaching they have to be put indoors. The restrictions on N and P are holding back the improved productivity of allot of our lands.

Below is the paragraph from the Directive that your buddie should be abiding by.

(2) Subject to sub-article (3), the capacity of facilities for the storage of livestock
manure may be less than the capacity specified in Article 11 or 12, as
appropriate, in relation to—


(a) deer, goats or sheep which are out-wintered at a grassland stocking
rate which does not exceed 130 kg nitrogen at any time during the
period specified in Schedule 4 in relation to the application of organic
fertiliser other than farmyard manure, or
(b) livestock (other than dairy cows, deer, goats or sheep) which are outwintered
at a grassland stocking rate which does not exceed 85 kg
nitrogen at any time during the period specified in Schedule 4 in
relation to the application of organic fertiliser other than farmyard
manure.


(3) Sub-article (2) shall apply only in relation to a holding where all the following
conditions are met—
(a) all the lands used for out-wintering of the livestock are comprised in
the holding,
(b) the out-wintered livestock have free access at all times to the
required lands,
(c) the amount of manure produced on the holding does not exceed an
amount containing 140kg of nitrogen per hectare per annum,
(d) severe damage to the surface of the land by poaching does not
occur, and
(e) the reduction in storage capacity is proportionate to the extent of outwintered
livestock on the holding.


(4) In this article, a grassland stocking rate of 130 kg or 85 kg of nitrogen, as
the case may be, means the stocking of grassland on a holding at any time by
such numbers and types of livestock as would in the course of a year excrete
waste products containing 130 kg or 85 kg of nitrogen, as the case may be, per
hectare of the grassland when calculated in accordance with the nutrient
excretion rates for livestock specified in Table 6 of Schedule 2.

keep going

as far as i know once you are under a certain stocking rate on each day of the winter period you dont need you dont need slurry storage if you dont have milking cows.however rather than disscussing wintering or what ever,the big thing land is not being farmed ,but there are a multitude of reasons for that(age,education,interest,subsidy farming,laziness)but basing payments on what was happening on farms 10 years ago is madness.when i left school i applied for the dole and was refused ,best thing ever happened me as i wouldnt have done anything try to mind it.being paid for nothing is no good and the same applies to farming.having seen new zealand i understand the differences but the biggest difference is attitude.we have been doing things in ireland for a long time that dont make sense and we are scared of taking risks as we have been conditioned by 38 years of CAP to expect security.

theroad

5live wrote: »

And 1k posts in a year:). I can retire now:p

1,000 posts in a year? You must be retired already:D.

centre 13

Shes right about the standard of grassland management..dairy farmers can evaluate themselves when the milk is collected..however drystock farmers by and large turn stock into a big field and close the gate..the Journal really should be at least getting some of these guys to consider dairying instead of harping on about GROSS margins...gross margins make the figures pretty but wont put bread on the table.If you want to make money milk cows.

Bizzum

centre 13 wrote: »

If you want to make money milk cows

I would make a few points on this:

Like a lot of things in life, if everyone went into it, the money would soon go out of it!

Not all farms suit dairy. Eg land type, fragmented land.

Dairy and part time farming are not easy bed fellows!

Conflats

centre 13 wrote: »

Shes right about the standard of grassland management..dairy farmers can evaluate themselves when the milk is collected..however drystock farmers by and large turn stock into a big field and close the gate..the Journal really should be at least getting some of these guys to consider dairying instead of harping on about GROSS margins...gross margins make the figures pretty but wont put bread on the table.If you want to make money milk cows.

Milking cows wont put any beef or ham in that sandwich if we all turned to milking

Muckit

I only got around to finding and reading the article yesterday. It's always good to get an outsiders view on things. It doesn't mean they are 100% right, but they're might not be 100% wrong either. And at the end of the day, it's only one person's biased opinion.

I'd agree with some of the observations she made and some of the points made here by others.

There has to a more logical, realistic and acheiveable middleground for Irish agriculture between telling everyone to move to Dairying and sitting pretty and doing sweet FA while still receiving the SFP.

One thing is for sure, change is inevitable part of life, like it or not. Standing still isn't an option.