Driver of the day: Round 11 - Hungarian Grand Prix

frostie500

Todays poll probably wont be the most hotly contested of the season after a peerless drive from JB but there were some other notable performers especially Paul di Resta who had a strong run to seventh after keeping himself out of trouble in difficult conditions.
Lewis Hamilton had a strong showing before making a poor strategic call in switching to inters in the closing stages.
Vettel keeps collecting points and podiums with another solid drive.

Gotta give my vote to Button though, thought it was as good a performance as any of his previous wins and showed his coolness in the heat of the moment once again.

lord lucan

Fernando Alonso

Easy choice this week,Button.

Honourable mentions to Alonso who had a strange day but pretty solid drive and Webber.

pburns

lord lucan wrote: »

Easy choice this week,Button.

Honourable mentions to Alonso who had a strange day but pretty solid drive and Webber.

I'd usually praise Alonso but he had a few costly errors today trying to make up for getting passed by the Mercs at the start. Button gave him a nice little dig about it in the 'pre-podium' green room!

Good drive by Button but he's a bit of a one trick pony! Apart from the early Brawn wins, all his victories are in these conditions I reckon. In fairness, I think any of the top 4 had the pace to win it but Button had consistent pace and was error-free.

Di Resta continues to impress, especially considering he's been driving DTM rather than single-seaters for a few years.

Myrddin

Fernando Alonso

pburns wrote: »

Good drive by Button but he's a bit of a one trick pony! Apart from the early Brawn wins, all his victories are in these conditions

Must have been a wet year in 2009 so?

He's super driver, his style is low-key though & doesn't stand out in the way the likes of Alonso/Hamilton win races. I thought Brazil in 09 showed us he had the balls to race, & Canada this year, for me anyway, cemented him as being a top 5 driver without a shadow of a doubt. Simply put he's just not as flashy as the rest of them, but analyse his properly & you'll see him can stand with the best of them, & taller than most.

kksaints

Fernando Alonso

Button got all the calls right and deserved his win.

FrostyJack

Fernando Alonso

Easy choice this week, though if Lewis had not of spun and went on to win, I would have picked him.

EnterNow wrote: »

Must have been a wet year in 2009 so?

You're having a laugh right? Brawn were miles ahead of the field because of their diffuser when he won all his races, when the field caught up after race 8 he was no where. Very good driver yes, super driver far from. His smooth driving style suits wet races very well hence he gets wins there sometimes. A rainy day doesn't make a summer.

Autosport

Fernando Alonso

Button got my vote, Made all the right decisions unlike Webber but Buemi had a great drive.

Myrddin

Fernando Alonso

FrostyJack wrote: »

You're having a laugh right? Brawn were miles ahead of the field because of their diffuser when he won all his races, when the field caught up after race 8 he was no where. Very good driver yes, super driver far from.

I didn't imply that we won the championship out of pure skill. What he did do though, is never drop out of 1st place in the championship that year. He collected points race after race, yes it was a struggle under pressure towards the end, but by the end that Brawn looked seriously dated.

Watch Brazil 2009, you'll see a championship winning drive froma worthy champion. In my opinion he's a far better drive than Vettel, Button can take hold of a race & deliver results. Vettel's day is normally decided on Saturdays.

Iron Hide

Fernando Alonso

EnterNow wrote: »

I didn't imply that we won the championship out of pure skill. What he did do though, is never drop out of 1st place in the championship that year. He collected points race after race, yes it was a struggle under pressure towards the end, but by the end that Brawn looked seriously dated.

Watch Brazil 2009, you'll see a championship winning drive froma worthy champion. In my opinion he's a far better drive than Vettel, Button can take hold of a race & deliver results. Vettel's day is normally decided on Saturdays.

+1 Starting with a faceful of clean air doesn't do any harm at all!

Agreed that Button is a superb driver, never dropping from first place all season and indeed in a pretty dated car. Brawn was the was the fastest for the first 8-10 races, lack of sponsors soon meant development money dried up and so thats how the red bull managed to catch up.
7-8 years ago it was a combination of Michael Schumacher, Ross Brawn, Chris Dyer, Aldo Costa, Rory Byrne and the Ferrari car itself that won the championships, in '09 it was pretty much all Button.

FrostyJack

Fernando Alonso

EnterNow wrote: »

Watch Brazil 2009, you'll see a championship winning drive froma worthy champion. In my opinion he's a far better drive than Vettel, Button can take hold of a race & deliver results. Vettel's day is normally decided on Saturdays.

Good logic, but since Vettel started in 15th behind and finished ahead of him surely he had the better drive? A number of incidents happened in that race that helped Button up the field, where he should have finished 7th or higher, including Rubens falling behind him.

Brawn was the was the fastest for the first 8-10 races, lack of sponsors soon meant development money dried up and so thats how the red bull managed to catch up.

Funnily that was about the time every other team got their diffusers right, meaning the massive advantage Button had on the rest of the field had was over. Yes the car was the same chassis used since the first race but his lead was so big he could afford to coast like he did. Vettel had 5 retirements compared to 1 for Button, a few of which were when leading. Vettel now has a bigger lead than Button had this season, as everyone knows he just has to turn up for the last few races. To say that Button is a better driver than Vettel, is just silly, there isn't one metric you could show he is better in. He has 127 less races and already has 5 more wins. The records speak for themselves.

Myrddin

Fernando Alonso

FrostyJack wrote: »

To say that Button is a better driver than Vettel, is just silly, there isn't one metric you could show he is better in. He has 127 less races and already has 5 more wins. The records speak for themselves.

Yeah, because the car makes absolutely no difference at all. Listen, put someone like Di Resta in that Red Bull & you'll see him overtaking Buttons stats in enough time. Vettel is a top driver, his time at TR showed us that...I simply don't rate him on doing anything other than winnig races from pole yet.

amacachi

Button was the best yesterday, simple as that.



If everyone who is saying how far ahead Brawn were in '09 would care to check the qualifying etc. from 2009 you'll see how small Brawn's advantage actually was, Button just used it absolutely perfectly at the start of the year and did what was needed for the rest of the season.

LEIN

Fernando Alonso

Has to be Button. That man is unstoppable in those type of conditions.

FrostyJack

Fernando Alonso

EnterNow wrote: »

Yeah, because the car makes absolutely no difference at all. Listen, put someone like Di Resta in that Red Bull & you'll see him overtaking Buttons stats in enough time. Vettel is a top driver, his time at TR showed us that...I simply don't rate him on doing anything other than winnig races from pole yet.

You are just arguing my point, the car is very important, unless Button has a fast one or conditions change he is no where. He has done better than I expected against Hamilton, but Hamilton is consistantly a lot faster. Button was great at qualifying when he had the diffuser advantage , now Hamiton gets the stunning positions and Button gives up 2 or 3 places at the start of every race.

Button just used it absolutely perfectly at the start of the year and did what was needed for the rest of the season

Yes he was perfect when he had the car advantage, then did the best he could when it was gone, which was 6th and 7th i.e. no where. Does that not indicate the car might have had something to do with it? Also see Rubens results, he was finishing beside Button in the Brawn until it went south. We will probably never see Vettel and Button in the same car but (I know this is a bit apples and oranges) in the Race of champions, Vettel does consistantly well and Button doesn't (don't think they ever went head to head though).

amacachi

FrostyJack wrote: »

You are just arguing my point, the car is very important, unless Button has a fast one or conditions change he is no where. He has done better than I expected against Hamilton, but Hamilton is consistantly a lot faster. Button was great at qualifying when he had the diffuser advantage , now Hamiton gets the stunning positions and Button gives up 2 or 3 places at the start of every race.

Who said the car isn't important? Button has beaten Hamilton a couple of times this year in dry weather as well as winning as many races. He's only 12 points behind Hamilton despite one more DNF and neither DNF were his fault.

Yes he was perfect when he had the car advantage, then did the best he could when it was gone, which was 6th and 7th i.e. no where. Does that not indicate the car might have had something to do with it? Also see Rubens results, he was finishing beside Button in the Brawn until it went south. We will probably never see Vettel and Button in the same car but (I know this is a bit apples and oranges) in the Race of champions, Vettel does consistantly well and Button doesn't (don't think they ever went head to head though).

As I said on another thread, when a car suits him he's probably peerless. Even though it looks to me like the car doesn't really suit him this year he's still within striking distance of Hamilton. Hamilton does dominate Button in qualifying yes, but there's no points for qualifying. Also it's funny how despite Button being "excellent" in changing conditions he quite often isn't that quick or burns out tyres but it's his consistency that wins him races like yesterday. Hamilton should've had the race in the bag and blew it.
Looking at the 2009 season, even when the car did get overtaken by a coupla other teams Button and Barrichello beat each other as many times as each got beaten, including a DNS for Button. At the start of the season Barrichello had 3 podiums in 7 races while Button won 6 of those 7.

FrostyJack

Fernando Alonso

amacachi wrote: »

Who said the car isn't important? Button has beaten Hamilton a couple of times this year in dry weather as well as winning as many races. He's only 12 points behind Hamilton despite one more DNF and neither DNF were his fault.

I never said he wasn't good, I said he wasn't super i.e. great. How many of the races that he finished ahead of Hamilton, did he actually beat him for pace? Maybe 1 or 2 at best. In Hungry bad calls and spin cost Hamilton. IMO Hamilton is a much better driver, as is Alsono, Vettel and even Rosberg. Button has been pretty terrible at qualifying some places, where as Vettel has been getting poles, giving some people the idea that Button is better. We all know the Red Bull is the car to beat, though the advantage is cut some what of late.

As I said on another thread, when a car suits him he's probably peerless.

200 GP's and 11 wins, not many cars must suit him. Put any of the top 10 in his car and you would get better results, I'm pretty sure the likes of Sutil and Buemi would be as quick, if not quicker too. The best drivers end up in the best cars like Schumacher, Vettel, Alsono etc, all have the stats to prove it, Button was never the best except when he lucked into the Brawn drive, without that season he would be at Lotus or the likes. His only other good year was 2004, and he had no chance that year against the Ferrari but outside those 2 seasons he was just an also ran or worse. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. We can revisit it at the end of the season when more data is in.

amacachi

FrostyJack wrote: »

I never said he wasn't good, I said he wasn't super i.e. great. How many of the races that he finished ahead of Hamilton, did he actually beat him for pace? Maybe 1 or 2 at best. In Hungry bad calls and spin cost Hamilton. IMO Hamilton is a much better driver, as is Alsono, Vettel and even Rosberg. Button has been pretty terrible at qualifying some places, where as Vettel has been getting poles, giving some people the idea that Button is better. We all know the Red Bull is the car to beat, though the advantage is cut some what of late.

Pace isn't the only thing that matters. Even if it had stayed dry the other day Button looked like he could go a few laps longer at the end of a stint or at least gain 1.5 seconds a lap. Quali pace isn't everything.

200 GP's and 11 wins, not many cars must suit him. Put any of the top 10 in his car and you would get better results, I'm pretty sure the likes of Sutil and Buemi would be as quick, if when he lucked into the Brawn drive, without that season he would be at Lotus or the likes. His only other good year was 2004, and he had no chance that year against the Ferrari but outside those 2 seasons he was just an also ran or worse. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. We can revisit it at the end of the season when more data is in.

not quicker too. The best drivers end up in the best cars like Schumacher, Vettel, Alsono etc, all have the stats to prove it, Button was never the best except
Check out the total wins for his teammates throughout his career.
The best drivers don't always end up in the best cars, they end up with the teams with the biggest budgets which often have the best cars. 2009 was different with McLaren and Ferrari probably the two biggest spenders but awful cars for the first half of the season. Up til then Honda and BAR were big spenders but failed to deliver a useful car.
If you want to talk about people blowing chances look no further than Hamilton, 2007 was the biggest wasted chance in the history of anything and but for his two race-ending crashes last season he would've won the title.

FrostyJack

Fernando Alonso

You are right above in everything, but I still stand by my position. If it wasn't for the Brawn car in 2009, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Maybe he would have got the drive at McLaren (top 2 Team), but that would probably be to do with having 2 British drivers than having the top 2 in the World. At the season end of 2008 Button would probably have become a test driver or taxi driver if Brawn's buy out did not succeed. Guess we will never know.

amacachi

And had Hamilton not jumped into a McLaren straight off he probably would've finished about 4 races in his first year. :pac: