JD power results 2011

Nissan doctor

Every time someone on here dares mention that cars like the megane etc are unreliable they get shouted down by the fan clubs and get results from a completely different market posted up to attempt to prove the point.


I recon the JD power results are more accurate of real life as they rate the whole experience including dealers/service etc and plus the fact that the British generally have no great loyalty to their own brands, unlike the Germans(adac tests etc)

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/jd-power-survey-2011/the-results/257096



Discuss.....(read debate/argue:P)

-Corkie-

Lexus IS at number one.....

Lex Luthor

Do subaru not figure?

BrianD3

I recon the JD power results are more accurate of real life as they rate the whole experience including dealers/service etc

You fail to mention that "desirability" forms part of the rating. To quote What Car?

They’ve been judged by the same criteria, including mechanical reliability, desirability, running costs and dealer service.

Trying to portray that league table as a reliability survey when it also includes such intangibles as desirability is a joke.

I see that "reliable" makes like Mitsubishi and Suzuki are near the bottom of the league table. Is this because they are deemed undesirable? Or are they actually unreliable? Or are they reliable but with crap dealers?

For a better estimate of reliability, the Auto Express Driver Power survey breaks its ratings down into categories. Reliability, driver appeal etc. This is far superior to a simple league table on satisfaction.

That JD Power league table is flawed in other ways too. Cars really should be split up by year or at least generation. There could be two or three generations of each model in that survey yet they are all lumped in together.

The Auto Express Driver Power survey attempts to split by generation and shows that, for example, the Renault Megane III is much more reliable than the Megane II.

The ADAC reports that you criticise are better still as they rate reliability of each model by year allowing reliability changes brought about by facelifts to be estimated. Not only can the Megane III be differentiated from the Megane II but pre facelift and post facelift Megane IIs can be differentiated from each other.

As for your dig about fan clubs - no offence but I'd rate "mechanic wisdom" only slightly ahead of "pub wisdom" when it comes to car reliability. Much of what is said by mechanics, car salesmen and others working in the trade is bullsh1t and can be safely ignored. If I listened to mechanics I'd be using Castrol GTX in modern cars and changing it every 3k miles :rolleyes:

pajo1981

It's funny how the results of these opinion based surveys are totally uncorrelated from one survey to next.

pajo1981

Nissan doctor wrote: »

...the British generally have no great loyalty to their own brands, unlike the Germans(adac tests etc)

The adac is based on cold breakdown stats, not opinions.

BrianD3

BrianD3 wrote: »

..............no offence but I'd rate "mechanic wisdom" only slightly ahead of "pub wisdom" when it comes to car reliability. Much of what is said by mechanics, car salesmen and others working in the trade is bullsh1t and can be safely ignored. If I listened to mechanics I'd be using Castrol GTX in modern cars and changing it every 3k miles :rolleyes:

Any mechanic who told you that is a muppet, hardly NissanDoctor's fault that you speak to numpty mechanics in fairness.

BrianD3

pajo1981 wrote: »

The adac is based on cold breakdown stats, not opinions.

And even if the ADAC report was based on opinions (which as you rightly say it isn't) the suggestion by the OP that the Germans are biased towards their own makes while the British aren't biased towards British* makes is a bit of a joke.

*Ford etc. Not even British but regarded as such by many.

BrianD3

RoverJames wrote: »

Any mechanic who told you that is a muppet, hardly NissanDoctor's fault that you speak to numpty mechanics in fairness.

I'd regard someone who portrays a satisfaction survey (that includes intangibles like desirability) as a measure of reliability as a bit of a numpty/muppet too.

colm_mcm

The IS scored 4 out of 5 start for reliability and it won the thing, so just to be clear - it's not a reliability survey.

pburns

BrianD3 wrote: »

The Auto Express Driver Power survey attempts to split by generation and shows that, for example, the Renault Megane III is much more reliable than the Megane II.

So you're finally admitting the Megane II was a pile of ****e;). I seem to remember you arguing pretty forcefully some time back that everyone in your family has had a Renault since the early 70s with not a single mechanical problem between yez (or something like that).

As for the JD Power viz-a-viz other surveys - I think there's always going to be room for debate about the specific criteria used. I don't think there's any great surprises in the top 10 though - except perhaps both Toyota and Alfa. But Toyota have hardly covered themselves in glory the last couple of years (partisan US media hype or not).

Look on the bright side though - according to this poll Renault are only the 6th most unsatisfactory manufacturer out of 28.
Woo-Hoo!!! Result:D:):D!!

BrianD3

pburns wrote: »

So you're finally admitting the Megane II was a pile of ****e;). I seem to remember you arguing pretty forcefully some time back that everyone in your family has had a Renault since the early 70s with not a single mechanical problem between yez (or something like that).

Or something like that :rolleyes:

1) just because the III is more reliable than the II doesn't mean that the II is a pile of sh*te. That's an exaggeration on your part.

2) on several occasions I've advised people of the potential problems with the Megane II, particularly the pre-facelift

3) there have been some problems with the numerous Renaults we have owned, nothing major though. I never said that there was "not a single mechanical problem". That's another exaggeration by you.

4) The first one bought by us was in the late 80s, not the 1970s. Yet another exaggeration.

Amazing how you manage to cram so many inaccuracies into such a short post - then again I guess bartsool experts do tend to exaggerate and talk sh*te.

BrianD3

BrianD3 wrote: »

I'd regard someone who portrays a satisfaction survey (that includes intangibles like desirability) as a measure of reliability as a bit of a numpty/muppet too.

No need for that really is there, ND is one of the most knowledgeable posters we have, and rather helpful with it.

Nissan doctor

BrianD3 wrote: »

I'd regard someone who portrays a satisfaction survey (that includes intangibles like desirability) as a measure of reliability as a bit of a numpty/muppet too.

I never said it was a measure of reliability. I said that it was "more accurate of real life" as they convey all aspect of owning a vehicle.

BrianD3

Nissan doctor wrote: »

I never said it was a measure of reliability. I said that it was "more accurate of real life" as they convey all aspect of owning a vehicle.

So why did you jump straight in in your opening line talking about Renault Meganes and unreliability and then using JD Power to back up your point

Every time someone on here dares mention that cars like the megane etc are unreliable they get shouted down by the fan clubs and get results from a completely different market posted up to attempt to prove the point.

If you're talking all aspects of owning a vehicle - that's quite difficult to measure. Eg service from the dealer - one persons idea of good service from a dealer may have another screaming at the receptionist.

If you're talking about reliability then the ADAC reports that you criticise are superior to anything that JD Power has published.

Nissan doctor

BrianD3 wrote: »

So why did you jump straight in in your opening line talking about Renault Meganes and unreliability and then using JD Power to back up your point

To start the debate off, and it worked.

Also, I believe most people with an interest in cars as more then a tool to get from A-B will consider more then 1 heading when giving an opinion on how good a car is.
Handling, interior, features, image(the german crew know about this one), cost to maintain, main dealer attitudes/service all come together with straight forward reliability to make a 'good' car.

BrianD3

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Also, I believe most people with an interest in cars as more then a tool to get from A-B will consider more then 1 heading when giving an opinion on how good a car is.
Handling, interior, features, image(the german crew know about this one), cost to maintain, main dealer attitudes/service all come together with straight forward reliability to make a 'good' car.

Well I agree with that but
1) In this forum reliability seems to be the be all and end all. Calling a car "bulletproof" is the biggest compliment many boards.ie posters can give it. If every other aspect of the car is below average, that gets glosssed over. The other side of this is that any car with any question mark over its relaibility - even if this is based on pub talk or the reputation of an obsolete model by the same manufacturer - gets slammed.

2) I'm not sure if JD Power tells us much about cars' handling, interior, dealer service etc. It's very subjective and subject to bias, influenced by demographics, marketing and human psychology. For instance, Skoda owners may well tend to have different priorities and expectations than BMW owners. Also, the fact that this is a voluntary/self selected survey introduces a bias straightaway as many who respond will be whingers and busybodies. I would not be bothered responding to one of those surveys and I doubt anyone who considers themselves a car enthusiast would either.

In contrast, the ADAC stats on reliability are based on actual callouts by the German equivalent of the AA. The most common problems encountered are noted and reported. So if we're talking about reliability rather than overall satisfaction I'd argue that we have much better data for the former.

Guy:Incognito

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Every time someone on here dares mention that cars like the megane etc are unreliable they get shouted down by the fan clubs and get results from a completely different market posted up to attempt to prove the point.


I recon the JD power results are more accurate of real life as they rate the whole experience including dealers/service etc and plus the fact that the British generally have no great loyalty to their own brands, unlike the Germans(adac tests etc)

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/jd-power-survey-2011/the-results/257096



Discuss.....(read debate/argue:P)

Didnt read beyond looking through the list but its obviously for older cars yeah? Seeing as the Vectra is on there.

Proves your better off in a Scenic than a Verso if you want less trouble too

Seeign as desirablility is counted I'm not surprised the Ka comes last. Dont think theres a car I'd less like to own. Horrible interior and the back wheels look like they are about to fall off the end of the car.

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

......... Dont think theres a car I'd less like to own. ..............

The sister might be selling hers in a month or two, I won't send you the for sale brochure so