Is an Extension Possible on a Timber Frame House?

Kintarō Hattori

Hi Folks,

The good lady and myself bought an end of terrace timber frame house a few months back. I am curious if it's possible to build an extension in the back garden. Ideally I would like if it was made from solid material (rather than timer frame). Noise isolation is what we're after. Currently there is a lot of noise at night/in the morning from doors/windows being slammed.

Is it possible to build a small extension that is very well isolated from noise and built from solid materials rather than timer frame. The extension doesn't need to be large or indeed plumed for water/gas etc.


Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

Poor Uncle Tom

Yes, it is possible.

SparKing

I would have thought that one of the great advantages of timber-framed houses is that they are easier to extend than traditional concrete-built houses.

Kintarō Hattori

Thanks folks. My big question though is it possible to build the extension, at the rear of the house out of concrete blocks/bricks etc..... rather than timber frame as is the rest of the house.

What we're really after is a room which won't let in much noise. Currently I guess from the nature of the construction/material when the neighbour next door is noisy the sound travels.

Sorry if my question seems silly.

Poor Uncle Tom

Yes you can use different construction types without any fear. ICF seals up nicely from a sound proofing point of view, especially if you use their roofing panels as well and seal them to the walling. Worth a look.

Kintarō Hattori

I just had a quick measure and any extension would be about 12ft out from the existing house building and it would need to be about 10ft wide and whatever tall. It doesn't need to have water or gas running too it, just electricity. The existing door I suppose could open into the extension and I suppose there would need to be a simple door and double glazed window.

At the moment the kitchen has a door and a floor length window or rough the same width which look out/open onto the rear garden. When you step outside there is a concrete pathway which runs around the house. I was wondering would it be possible/easier to build an extension in the garden and link it to the house via a simple wall. I imagine this would help eliminate any noise as the two buildings are linked via a simple wall/roof?

Also taking into account that we would like it to be pretty well insulated against noise, is it possible to get even a rough idea how much something like this would cost? Does planning permission need to be sought? I've included a rough sketch as I don't know any of the useful lingo or technical terms.

martinn123

Ok, start at the side adjoining your neighbour, you would build a new wall, inside the Boundary,don't get into issues about creating a new boundary.
That wall cannot have glazing which overlooks your neighbour.
Now the wall looking towards your garden, and the wall returning to the house, you will want a door, rest is window glazing.
Now the roof, what do you want, solid, glass, remember you will cut off most of the light through the patio doors,with a solid roof, so that area will become darker, couple of Velux will help, but you cannot bend light back into the house.

Now whats your budget, expect to pay 12K+ for a glazed roof, couple of grand more for a solid roof, insulated, and a plastered ceiling. Both will need electrics, sockets, wall lights, insulated floor,DPC, insulated walls, muffler wants a Radon Sump, ( ignore him), and some form of heating, electrical, solid fuel, or attached to existing heating system.

Need any more info, post or PM

Slig

martinn123 wrote: »

Ok, start at the side adjoining your neighbour, you would build a new wall, inside the Boundary,don't get into issues about creating a new boundary.
That wall cannot have glazing which overlooks your neighbour.
Now the wall looking towards your garden, and the wall returning to the house, you will want a door, rest is window glazing.
Now the roof, what do you want, solid, glass, remember you will cut off most of the light through the patio doors,with a solid roof, so that area will become darker, couple of Velux will help, but you cannot bend light back into the house.

Now whats your budget, expect to pay 12K+ for a glazed roof, couple of grand more for a solid roof, insulated, and a plastered ceiling. Both will need electrics, sockets, wall lights, insulated floor,DPC, insulated walls, muffler wants a Radon Sump, ( ignore him), and some form of heating, electrical, solid fuel, or attached to existing heating system.



Need any more info, post or PM

Martin, how the hell are you not banned yet?:D

muffler

martinn123 wrote: »

Ok, start at the side adjoining your neighbour, you would build a new wall, inside the Boundary,don't get into issues about creating a new boundary.
That wall cannot have glazing which overlooks your neighbour.

Yes it can so long as it's 1 metre or more from the boundary.

martinn123 wrote: »

muffler wants a Radon Sump, ( ignore him),

Extensions must be protected from radon gas so a sump/membrane and outlet pipe are necessary.


Mod hat on: If you dont know the regulations then dont post. Infraction given for advising that statutory regulations should be ignored.

muffler

Slig wrote: »

Martin, how the hell are you not banned yet?:D

May not have to wait too long.

martinn123 wrote: »

muffler wants a Radon Sump, ( ignore him),

Kindly explain this comment.

Slig

I can see, to a certain extent, that a lay person could see that these regs are a bit overkill. Especially as there is essentially no policing of issues like this.

The best way I can try and describe it is like the NCT. Everyone complains that its just a money making racket and that the results mean absolutely nothing yet nobody would buy a car that they knew failed the test.

The regulations are to apply to everyone, and they are there for a reason. Although some people may think things like radon sumps, wheelchair accessable ramps & toilets and fire escape windows will never be needed by them you never know what the future may bring. Any job where corners are cut is always going to be a sub-standard job.

Poor Uncle Tom

Slig wrote: »

I can see, to a certain extent, that a lay person could see that these regs are a bit overkill. Especially as there is essentially no policing of issues like this.

The best way I can try and describe it is like the NCT. Everyone complains that its just a money making racket and that the results mean absolutely nothing yet nobody would buy a car that they knew failed the test.

Exactly, and nobody would take seriously a 'professional' in the industry telling them not to mind the regulations, would they?

Poor Uncle Tom

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I just had a quick measure and any extension would be about 12ft out from the existing house building and it would need to be about 10ft wide and whatever tall. It doesn't need to have water or gas running too it, just electricity. The existing door I suppose could open into the extension and I suppose there would need to be a simple door and double glazed window.

At the moment the kitchen has a door and a floor length window or rough the same width which look out/open onto the rear garden. When you step outside there is a concrete pathway which runs around the house. I was wondering would it be possible/easier to build an extension in the garden and link it to the house via a simple wall. I imagine this would help eliminate any noise as the two buildings are linked via a simple wall/roof?

Also taking into account that we would like it to be pretty well insulated against noise, is it possible to get even a rough idea how much something like this would cost? Does planning permission need to be sought? I've included a rough sketch as I don't know any of the useful lingo or technical terms.

Either way is fine, just specify to a good local Architectural Technician to do a drawing of the required size extension and make sure you emphasise that it is soundproof. It is not as difficult or expensive as you may think. Get a few quotations from the plans.

martinn123

muffler wrote: »

May not have to wait too long.



Kindly explain this comment.

My apologies, a poor attempt at humour, it's a refefence to a recent post you made in another thread.

Reminder to self, humour is not your best attribute...........now as the other guy said, grow up.

martinn123

muffler wrote: »

Yes it can so long as it's 1 metre or more from the boundary.

From the attached sketch I understood the wall was to be up against the boundary, so I was describing the situation as I saw it.

Extensions must be protected from radon gas so a sump/membrane and outlet pipe are necessary.

for my assistance can you post a link to that Regulation, thanks.

Mod hat on: If you dont know the regulations then dont post. Infraction given for advising that statutory regulations should be ignored.

Acknowledged.

Poor Uncle Tom

martinn123 wrote: »

for my assistance can you post a link to that Regulation, thanks.

Here on Page 12, point 2.10. The extension becomes part of the dwelling and will need to be treated as such.

martinn123

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Here on Page 12, point 2.10. The extension becomes part of the dwelling and will need to be treated as such.

Thank you.

It does not mention '' extention'' so are we in the area, where it is open to interpritation.

I would have thought that with a sump in the main building a membrane might be sufficient.

However I do not wish to start a conversation on this, so let's leave it at that, one red card is enough.

p.s thanks for your comment, ''professional in the industry'' thought I was just a layman, its nice to be acknowledged by your peers.

Kintarō Hattori

Folks, thanks for all the good advice I've seen so far. Normally when an extension is built it's 'tacked on' so to speak to the existing wall of the house. I'm wondering if it's possible or even a good idea to build a sperate box/shell/exension and link it back so to speak by a sperate set of walls and roof. In my mind I imagine that this would help to dampen/eliminate any noise coming from the neighbours house which we presently can hear in our house.

martinn123

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Folks, thanks for all the good advice I've seen so far. Normally when an extension is built it's 'tacked on' so to speak to the existing wall of the house. I'm wondering if it's possible or even a good idea to build a sperate box/shell/exension and link it back so to speak by a sperate set of walls and roof. In my mind I imagine that this would help to dampen/eliminate any noise coming from the neighbours house which we presently can hear in our house.

In layman's terms, not really. If you have a noise problem it's coming from next door through adjoining walls. so if you extent out from your house, provided its well insulated, soundproffed, etc, you will have no walls adjoining the noisy neighbours. Thats if I read your sketch right.

It won't do anything for the existing house, but the extention should be Ok.

Unless the neighbours have an existing extention which you might be considering linking to.

Kintarō Hattori

We're not worried about the noise in the house, we just want the extension to be sound proof. We know we can't get rid of the noise in the house. It's not a problem most of the time, just at night and in the morning. As such we want to build the extension to have somewhere quiet to sleep.

Poor Uncle Tom

martinn123 wrote: »

p.s thanks for your comment, ''professional in the industry'' thought I was just a layman, its nice to be acknowledged by your peers.

You provide a service within the building industry, therefore you are a professional within the building industry.

In layman's terms, not really. If you have a noise problem it's coming from next door through adjoining walls. so if you extent out from your house, provided its well insulated, soundproffed, etc, you will have no walls adjoining the noisy neighbours. Thats if I read your sketch right.

It won't do anything for the existing house, but the extention should be Ok.

That's as I see it too.

The 'link' format works better with a house that is hard to extend to, say a thatched cottage where a small link works best, otherwise a regular extension with soundproofing (soundproof slabbing, extra leaf skin to the joining walling, buffer insulation at floor level, etc) should work best.

BryanF

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Folks, thanks for all the good advice I've seen so far. Normally when an extension is built it's 'tacked on' so to speak to the existing wall of the house. I'm wondering if it's possible or even a good idea to build a sperate box/shell/exension and link it back so to speak by a sperate set of walls and roof. In my mind I imagine that this would help to dampen/eliminate any noise coming from the neighbours house which we presently can hear in our house.

Kintaro
your planning an extension, but you have also mentioned noise issues repeatedly.
why not improve the party wall sound rating?
acousitic slabs can be easily applied. joists can also be altered to reduce noise (this does have knock issues and would be best done with a change in floor coverings, but not a bad time if your building an extension..)
this may relax your fixation for having a block extension and the knock-on construction detail issues you have raised...
may I ask have you sought a professional opinion on your extension and noise problems?

Mellor

martinn123 wrote: »

Thank you.
It does not mention '' extention'' so are we in the area, where it is open to interpritation.

I would have thought that with a sump in the main building a membrane might be sufficient.

I can see why you would think that, but its not correct.
The rising walls of a house have spaces left in them so that the radon can pass easily through walls and into the sump. If this was not in place, each rising wall "room" would need a sump.
With an extension, a section of external rising wall becomes internal and this obviously won't have the required holes to allow radon to pass through.

I suppose you could modify the walls to create thse holes, but why would you bother, a sump is faster, cheaper and above all a better solution.

Humour is allowed on the forum, but posting incorrect advice as a "joke" is ridiculous.

sinnerboy

martinn123 wrote: »

It does not mention '' extention'' so are we in the area, where it is open to interpritation.

It mentions "building". Not really open to interpretation.

martinn123

sinnerboy wrote: »

It mentions "building". Not really open to interpretation.

OK, but in fairness it also states,

A single

sump is likely to have influence over an area of at
least 250m2 and for a distance of at least 15m from
the sump. The hardcore layer should be clean, dry,
will-compacted and gas permeable following the

compaction process.

So assuming an existing sump in place, how can the above be interprited , would its influence cover the extention.

sinnerboy

See post no 23.

galwaytt

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Hi Folks,

The good lady and myself bought an end of terrace timber frame house a few months back. I am curious if it's possible to build an extension in the back garden. Ideally I would like if it was made from solid material (rather than timer frame). Noise isolation is what we're after. Currently there is a lot of noise at night/in the morning from doors/windows being slammed.

Is it possible to build a small extension that is very well isolated from noise and built from solid materials rather than timer frame. The extension doesn't need to be large or indeed plumed for water/gas etc.


Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Folks, thanks for all the good advice I've seen so far. Normally when an extension is built it's 'tacked on' so to speak to the existing wall of the house. I'm wondering if it's possible or even a good idea to build a sperate box/shell/exension and link it back so to speak by a sperate set of walls and roof. In my mind I imagine that this would help to dampen/eliminate any noise coming from the neighbours house which we presently can hear in our house.

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

We're not worried about the noise in the house, we just want the extension to be sound proof. We know we can't get rid of the noise in the house. It's not a problem most of the time, just at night and in the morning. As such we want to build the extension to have somewhere quiet to sleep.

I would not advocate using a different method of building your extension to the TF you have - the reason you have sound issues is not because your house is TF, but more the quality of the actual installation of it.

For example, it is entirely possible to build a timber based party wall that exceeds the performance you are looking for - you just need to find the right people/etc.

If the new build is a different system, it will also behave differently in terms of sound and airtightness too. I daresay your existing build is remediable as well.