Speeding: gatso: what happens now

vector

My significan other says she did 81mph past a gatso in a 62mph zone.
(its an old car, so still thinking in miles!)

Assuming it photographed the car what happen in reality now?

2 points and a fine of 80 in the post, done and dusted?
and when will the letter arrive?

or a summons? (I hope not)

indeed what speeding offenses are summonsed these days, isint everything just a fine and points (assuming you pay the fine)

exador

You will get fine within about 10 days (registered owner that is) and you have 28 days from the date on the fine to pay the 80 euro and also take the two points. Assuming you do this and pay fine e.t.c well then its all done and dusted..

If 28 days go by and you don't pay then you have another 28 days to pay but fin increases to 120 euro and 2 points. if you don't pay after 56 days and are convicted you run the risk of 4 points.

Just reading that from the one i got in the post last week !

vector

we will pay and take the points but interesting question...

is it 2 points+80 regardless as to the speed?

I mean if you are going to get caught you might as well do 100mph as 80?
or is there a point at which the gatso people will hand over a pic to the gardai as evidence of dangerous driving or something else

SV

As long as you're over it you might as well do 200mph. I don't think it makes a difference, does it?

The gatso can't determine if it was dangerous driving regardless of the speed.
It doesn't know the conditions etc?

exador

Not sure about that !


I was doing 60 kph in a 5o kph zone at 11pm ...flash ! kicking myself as its the first one ever after 33 years driving.. it does tend to focus the mind though as i have been more alert to the speeding signs even if I do think its a money making racket.

Today I was driving towards Rathdrum in Wicklow and a honda civic overtook a line of four cars including me on a continous white line. If that wasn't bad enough the passenger put his hand out the window giving all the cars the middle finger. It happened so quick I couldn't get the reg and the blue smoke didn't help either...

Bit of a difference

gbee

SV wrote: »

As long as you're over it you might as well do 200mph.

I believe, I think, it's 265MPH to defeat the camera, am looking for the Top Gear Top Tip as I type. :P

TestTransmission

SV wrote: »

As long as you're over it you might as well do 200mph. I don't think it makes a difference, does it?

You could get a summons for dangerous driving?I'm open to correction

guil

gbee wrote: »

I believe, I think, it's 265MPH to defeat the camera, am looking for the Top Gear Top Tip as I type. :P

wasn't it 171 MPH in the TVR

Vic_Mackey

According to this there's camera that can catch you going up to 300kph
Link

keithclancy

I f*cking hate Gatsos.

Nonoperational

81 in a 62 would be nothing more than 2 points and a fine of €80.

gerire

vector wrote: »

My significan other says she did 81mph past a gatso in a 62mph zone.
(its an old car, so still thinking in miles!)

Assuming it photographed the car what happen in reality now?

2 points and a fine of 80 in the post, done and dusted?
and when will the letter arrive?

or a summons? (I hope not)

indeed what speeding offenses are summonsed these days, isint everything just a fine and points (assuming you pay the fine)

aparently you just go to court and say it wasn't you
http://www.corkman.ie/news/speed-vans-fail-basic-legal-test-2833583.html

precedent is there now....

TWELVE charges of speeding, brought by the Road Safety Authority (RSA) were dismissed at Mallow District Court this week, as none of the inspectors could identify any of the drivers.

Evidence of speeding, along with car registration numbers, were given by three RSA Inspectors in court on Tuesday, which alleged a host of speeding offences at Creggane, Buttevant on January 30 last.

The RSA Inspectors who work in the mobile speed detection vehicles, commonly known as Gatso vans, take photographs of car registration numbers and then issue a speeding fine by post.

However, none of the RSA Inspectors, when grilled by various solicitors, could state who exactly was driving the car when the photographs were taken.

Judge Olann Kelleher told the RSA Inspectors that it was not enough to show that there was speeding, but proof of who was driving must also be given.

"You need to go back and check it out with your own people. This is not a criticism of you, but I have to be fair here; otherwise, this is really just a waste of time," said Judge Kelleher. THERE was just one successful prosecution by the RSA (Road Safety Authority) for speeding out of 13 at Mallow District Court, as none of the RSA speed Inspectors could give evidence as to the identification of the driver.

Evidence of speeding along with car registration numbers were given by three RSA Inspectors in court on Tuesday which related to a host of speeding offences at Creggane, Buttevant, on January 30, 2011.

The RSA inspectors who work in the mobile speed detection vehicles, commonly called Gatso vans, take photographs of car registration numbers and then issue a speeding fine by post.

However, none of the RSA Inspectors when grilled by various solicitors could state who exactly was driving the cars when the photographs were taken.

After listening to a host of cases, Judge Kelleher told the three RSA Inspectors that it was not enough to show there was speeding, but proof of who was driving must also be given.

"You need to go back and check it all out with your own people. This is not a criticism of you, but I have to be fair here, otherwise this is really just a waste of time," said Judge Kelleher.

The only successful prosecution was the first case listed, Niamh Kirk, of 3 Pearse Place, Carrigtwohill. Inspector Pádraig Kelleher of the RSA said he was operating a seed check on the N20 at Creggane, Buttevant on January 30, 2011.

He said he photographed a car being driven at 66kph in a 50 zone. Ms Kirk was not in court and she was fined €200.

However, the second case listed was Declan O'Sullivan, and he told the court that he did not get a notification of speeding. He also said it was his brother who was driving the car and not him. Solicitor Neil Corbett said there was no evidence provided by the RSA inspector as to who was driving the car. Inspector Kelleher also told the judge that he did not know who the driver was. The charge against Mr O'Sullivan of Loughlea, Buttevant was dismissed.

However, German national Dagmar Stolzenbach, of Cahermuke, Kealkil, Bantry, admitted to speeding at Creggane, Buttevant, on January 30, 2011 - however she said that she was not notified by post about it.

Judge Kelleher adjourned the matter until September 13, and said if she paid €150 to St Vincent de Paul by that date - then he would strike it out.

Solicitor Dave Waters representing Stephen O'Flynn told said the court that " some evidence must be given" of the identification of the driver. He was representing Mr O'Flynn, of 27 O'Sullivan's Place, Mallow. "The summons is saying that Stephen O'Flynn was speeding, but there is no evidence of identification," he said.

Garda Inspector Senan Ryan said that he accepted that evidence had not been given by the RSA Inspector as to identification. Again, this case was dismissed. Garda Insp Ryan told the court that there is "a presumption in law that a summons has been served".

Solicitor David O'Meara representing another client said that the hub of the problem before the court was that "it is an old fashioned summons for a new fashioned law, and it just doesn't work".

Representing himself, Edward Harty, of 13 Finian Park, Shannon, Co. Clare, said he did not get any notification by post - again, this case was dismissed.

Other dismissed cases included John F Daly, of O'Brien Street, Kanturk; Mary O'Driscoll, of 18 Summer hill, Mallow; Mike Roche, of Jamestown, Kilmallock and Patrick Whelan, of Mulberry Road, Midleton.

- MARIA HERLIHY

keithclancy

Man, Irish fines are so weird.

2km over.. 80 euro

30 km over .. 80 euro

80 km over .. 80 euro

Its madness, should be gradutated system.

puppetmaster

Aren't Gatso's the one's with the lines on the road? not the radar based one's? Like the new one's on the M50. We dont have many of those.

And yeh there is a Guy in the back of the van so he can Take a picture of you doing anything that will occur a fixed penalty notice (although i doubt their authorised to). Well at least i know someone who got done exceeding the Speed limit while towing a trailer. So thats human intervention. Maybe its only when related to speed though.

101sean

Got a ticket off one of the vans for doing over 80kph in a vehicle over 3500kg, I was in a 100kph area. I proved that the vehicle (my 101 Land Rover) had a design weight of 3143kg and got the ticket dropped

I got no answer off the NPO as to how they determine a vehicles weight when issuing such a notice.

gowley

keithclancy wrote: »

Man, Irish fines are so weird.

2km over.. 80 euro

30 km over .. 80 euro

80 km over .. 80 euro

Its madness, should be gradutated system.

this isnt the case.the guards can decide to bring you to court if they feel your speed was so excessive that it amounted to dangerous driving and the fine will be more like 300 euro and 5 points i am aware of someone being caught doing163kph on the m9 which is 43kph over the limit and they gota summons and 200 euro fine wit 5 points

Well hung

exador wrote: »

Not sure about that !


I was doing 60 kph in a 5o kph zone at 11pm ...flash ! kicking myself as its the first one ever after 33 years driving.. it does tend to focus the mind though as i have been more alert to the speeding signs even if I do think its a money making racket.

Today I was driving towards Rathdrum in Wicklow and a honda civic overtook a line of four cars including me on a continous white line. If that wasn't bad enough the passenger put his hand out the window giving all the cars the middle finger. It happened so quick I couldn't get the reg and the blue smoke didn't help either...

Bit of a difference

pappyodaniel

The other day whilst passing a speed van I spent as much time looking down at the speedo that I nearly veered out onto the other side of the road. Has anyone else found this to be the case? I wonder has there been any accidents attributed to drivers checking their speedometers so intently that they've caused an accident.

In The Sticks

Apparently when your summons arrives you get the option of stating who was driving the car at the time it was clocked, you can put your name or your OH name on it, put her name on it ans she pays the fine and gets the points, :eek:

exador

In The Sticks wrote: »

Apparently when your summons arrives you get the option of stating who was driving the car at the time it was clocked, you can put your name or your OH name on it, put her name on it ans she pays the fine and gets the points, :eek:

tried that one already...strangely enough she didn't seem too keen !

brian2me

what about it you put your cousin in Liverpool down while he was on holidays? He's own insurance covers him to drive my car. They can't penalise UK license holders yet, I think? Am i right in saying this??

volvoman480

Ah come on now lads, I've fierce sympathy for those poor RSA lads after their day in court. Isn't it awful that after a hard days slog in the back of a van shooting fish in a barrel, they turn up in court full of their usual self righteousness and the judge hands them their ass in a sling??

I don't have words to accurately express how I feel at this time. hahahahahahahaha

slimjimmc

gerire wrote: »

aparently you just go to court and say it wasn't you
http://www.corkman.ie/news/speed-vans-fail-basic-legal-test-2833583.html

precedent is there now....

It seems that some of those cases were dismissed because on that occasion that particular judge felt that the driver should be identifiable, even though the legal onus is on you, as registered owner, to nominate the true driver. I get the impression that judge was taking a swipe at an inadequate system, other judges might not have the same view.

The District Courts cannot set legal precedent so I wouldn't go relying on what happened previously.

Seems that a lot of people had a lucky day.

Our man in Havana

brian2me wrote: »

what about it you put your cousin in Liverpool down while he was on holidays? He's own insurance covers him to drive my car. They can't penalise UK license holders yet, I think? Am i right in saying this??

Quality time with Bubba awaits you.

TwoShedsJackson

keithclancy wrote: »

Man, Irish fines are so weird.

2km over.. 80 euro

30 km over .. 80 euro

80 km over .. 80 euro

Its madness, should be gradutated system.

They could do what they do in Finland (I think), fine you a percentage of your annual income for every 5kmh over the limit or whatever.

vector

keithclancy wrote: »

Man, Irish fines are so weird.

2km over.. 80 euro

30 km over .. 80 euro

80 km over .. 80 euro

Its madness, should be gradutated system.

Not quite,

it should be

2km over.. no penalty

30 km over .. 60 euro

80 km over .. @dangerous@ driving or something like that

NuMarvel

vector wrote: »

Not quite,

it should be

2km over.. no penalty

30 km over .. 60 euro

80 km over .. @dangerous@ driving or something like that

Why do you think that someone over the speed limit should not get penalty points?

BronsonTB

NuMarvel wrote: »

Why do you think that someone over the speed limit should not get penalty points?

Grrr....Becuase there has to be some little tiny margin of room for error....
It's also a little fairer (real world) on people that do their very best to stick to the speed limit but MIGHT do 51kph by accident on a very odd occasion.
The limit signs between 50 & 60 zones can be only a few yards so is can take a min to slow under the 50!!

keithclancy

NuMarvel wrote: »

Why do you think that someone over the speed limit should not get penalty points?

Becuase with this system, if your going to drive over the speed limit you may as well do it properly.

I'd feel I got much better value for money if I was caught doing 160 in a 120 rather than 125 in a 120

Margin of error would be good.

People sometimes exceed the speed limit when joining a Motorway, or going from a 80 - 50km/h zone.

The system here is much better:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flitsers.nl%2Fverkeersboetes

I.E. The person that is marginally over the speed limit gets just a f*cked as the person whos taking the pi** flaking down the motorway at 30 - 40 km /h over the limit.

Our man in Havana

€241 for 30km/h over is very sore indeed.

Do many Dutch motorists speed?

keithclancy

Our man in Havana wrote: »

€241 for 30km/h over is very sore indeed.

Do many Dutch motorists speed?

Depends on the Area,
Generally I would say people drive over the speed limit allot more in the South (Brabant/Limburg) than in the Randstad (Rotterdam/Amsterdam/The Hague) mainly because the Randstad is littered with Static/Non Static and Average Speed Cameras.

I've come to the conclusion that i'm the only muppet that does 80km/h on the N2 Ring Road around Eindhoven on my way home, everyone else does around 100, I counted a total of 25 cars one night that passed me at speed while I was doing the speed limit.

Bloody efficient too, get caught by an Average speed camera and the Ticket comes out two days later.

Germany has a graduated system just like the Netherlands, but the fines are even worse, 1.5 seconds over on a red light and your talking 900 euros and a 3 month ban and none of this mickey mouse i have a foreign license so it doesnt apply to me, if your caught driving in Germany they take the car off you and you get an even larger fine.

In fairness though, if your only a few km over, the fine is small, if your booting it then you deserve to be caught, you knew what you were doing was wrong, 240 euros is a good incentive not to do it again

vector wrote: »

Not quite,

it should be

2km over.. no penalty

30 km over .. 60 euro

80 km over .. @dangerous@ driving or something like that

Well there is a percentage margin of error included, i.e.

Reading at 130
Offence speed with margin of error 122 (Tolerance of Equipment)

vector

If I pay the fine in a post office do I still have to post the form for 55cents to County Whatever, or is it all electronic, and I just aget a receipt from the post office and thats that?

(I don't want to post cos it would cost 55c AND what if the form got lost!)

Boskowski

Just on a sidenote that may save money.

It says pay within 28 days or that's how I read it anyway. BUT!

My speeding fine was issued on June 30, so pushing it off and off and off again the last week of July arrives and I look at the notice to be sure and go 'ah, no later than Thursday so' which was the 28th.

At the post office on Thursday then I was told by the clerk reading off the computer the day of notice actually counts as day 1 and really I only had 'til the 27th to pay. Cost me €120 instead of €80 for the sake of being one day too late.

Now this isn't a complaint or anything should have just paid the fkn thing earlier or read the fineprint.
But the post office guy said to me it happens to a lot people as everybody is pushing it off until what they think is the last day and a ton of people get caught for the extra €40.

So make sure you're not one of them!

@Vector: all electronic

Zith

vector wrote: »

If I pay the fine in a post office do I still have to post the form for 55cents to County Whatever, or is it all electronic, and I just aget a receipt from the post office and thats that?

(I don't want to post cos it would cost 55c AND what if the form got lost!)

You just pay at the post office and get a receipt. Nothing to send off.