Garda Ranks

Tyron Jara

Hey guys there has been something ive wondered about for a long time. Why is a sergent in charge not a seperate rank to sergeant? A SIC has more responsiblity and is in charge of a sub division station but only hold the sergeant rank. Does a SIC get a pay rise? I dont know. But I think a SIC should be a rank in its own. I was also thinking maybe senior Gardai should be distinguishable from the juniors. (And not from the look of there age) As in a garda who has not risen up the ranks but has over 30 years service should be distinguishable from a garda with 5 years service. So what about a senior garda rank which would have 2 cheverons like 2 stripes. (A sergeant has 3)

Currently these are the garda ranks:
Commissioner
Deputy Commisioner
Assistant Commisioner
Chief Superintendant
Superintendant
Inspector
Sergeant
Garda
Student Garda
Reserve
Student Reserve

What I prupose is a rank system as follows.

Commissioner
Deputy Commisioner
Assistant Commisioner
Chief Superintendant
Superintendant
Inspector
Sergeant in Charge
Sergeant
Senior Garda
Garda
Student Garda
Reserve
Student Reserve

What do ye think?:) Also can someone tell me the duties of an inspector exactly?

source

I don't think there's really any need, the members know who the senior members in the station are and will know who the Sergeant in charge is. The public have no need to know which member is a senior member or who is the Sergeant in charge.

The addition of 2 ranks won't make any difference to the running of the service.

Tyron Jara

source wrote: »

I don't think there's really any need, the members know who the senior members in the station are and will know who the Sergeant in charge is. The public have no need to know which member is a senior member or who is the Sergeant in charge.

The addition of 2 ranks won't make any difference to the running of the service.

Yes but does a seargent in charge get a rise in pay or is it just seargent grade pay? I just think it would be nice if they had their own isignia to distinguish themselves. But I think your right it would not make a difference in running the service.

goldie fish

Should the SHO also not be paid more than an ordinary sgt too? Does he also deserve a different rank given the different responsibilities?

Delancey

I think the various Australian Police Forces operate a rank of Senior Constable / Senior Sergeant ?

source

Delancey wrote: »

I think the various Australian Police Forces operate a rank of Senior Constable / Senior Sergeant ?

Yeah they do, Senior Sergeant from what I know is quite like the Sergeant I/C taking a more administrative role and supervising the Sergeants.

As for Senior Constable, they have no more power than a Constable apart from assisting in training other constables, the rank only shows a Constables experience. Which as I outlined above, is already known by members that are working with that member and is not needed to be known by members of the public.

Tyron Jara

goldie fish wrote: »

Should the SHO also not be paid more than an ordinary sgt too? Does he also deserve a different rank given the different responsibilities?

Whats an SHO? My point for an SIC is hes running a small station were as a normal sergeant has diffeent duties.

Tyron Jara

source wrote: »

Yeah they do, Senior Sergeant from what I know is quite like the Sergeant I/C taking a more administrative role and supervising the Sergeants.

As for Senior Constable, they have no more power than a Constable apart from assisting in training other constables, the rank only shows a Constables experience. Which as I outlined above, is already known by members that are working with that member and is not needed to be known by members of the public.

Actually this is were the idea first came into my head. It does not have anything to do with what the public sees its more a senior guard being able to distinguish himself from a newbie like an inspector can from a sergeant.
But SIC I think should definatly be a higher rank than sergeant it has far more responsibilities than the normal duties of a sergeant I presume.

source

With regard to pay I honestly don't know so I won't comment.

A SHO is a Station House Officer, they are the Sergeant in charge of each unit in larger stations, and would have a number of Sergeants and a unit of Gardai under them.

The Sergeant I/C is mainly an administrative position. I wouldn't necessarily say that the SIC has more responsibilities, just different responsibilities. Instead of running a unit of working Gardai, they ensure the smooth operation of the station.

Again on the seniority of the Gardai, members know who is senior to who, thats what reg (serial) numbers are for. The lower the reg the more senior the member.

goldie fish

Normally you have to have passed the inspectors exam to be considered for appointment to Sgt I/C, but this is not always the case.

goldie fish

source wrote: »

With regard to pay I honestly don't know so I won't comment.

A SHO is a Station House Officer, they are the Sergeant in charge of each unit in larger stations, and would have a number of Sergeants and a unit of Gardai under them.

The Sergeant I/C is mainly an administrative position. I wouldn't necessarily say that the SIC has more responsibilities, just different responsibilities. Instead of running a unit of working Gardai, they ensure the smooth operation of the station.

Again on the seniority of the Gardai, members know who is senior to who, thats what reg (serial) numbers are for. The lower the reg the more senior the member.

Really?????

Are you SURE?

angelfire9

I have never heard of an SHO so I know nothing about that
I've heard of Unit sergeants is that what is being referred to?


The I/C is a Sergeant who has passed inspectors exams AFAIK and yes they do get a payrise for the role
My father was I/C for his last years on the job and believe me it may seem to be a mainly admin role but there is alot more to it than that!
In my father's station every single time a serious incident (Sudden death/fatal RTA/Serious assault/murder) occurred he was called out regardless of rest days etc

I know there was a lot of paperwork involved as well, lads on the job will know the kind of stuff their I/C deals with, I don't think its the kind of thing that should be discussed in detail on a forum though

goldie fish

We didn't have shoulder numbers in my day there, but in Cork City it was pretty random. The more senior the skipper the higher the number, most ics had only one digit. After that it seemed random.

Tyron Jara

SIC or SHO seem to have greater responsibility that a sergeant. Therefore they should have there own rank to show exactly who they are even if you know already. Especially if your a SIC and have sergeants under you.

Another thing if you have to pass the inspectors exams to be SIC why not just take the rank of inspector? Instead of still being a sergeant?

I belive a SIC is a tougher job than the regular sergeants duties and should be preceived as its own seperate rank. To be honest my SIC were im from I only know him because he interviewd me, if that didnt happen I would of presumed any sergeant down here was in charge.

Locust

My understanding is that Sgt i/c or SHO or Member i/c are generally the same role - they are typically 'in house' - in the station (they have to be there) and are the person in charge of the station for that tour... Shift changes - new SHO's come in and take over. They are in a management/admin role over their unit and the station for that time - making decisions with prisoners, dealing with garda files, running the place logistically, doing up rosters etc...

A Section Sergeant (usually more junior to the SHO but senior to most of Garda rank give or take) may be attached to the unit working (usually larger units/areas will have a section sgt) he will be over the unit and have more regular contact with members and will usually go out with the unit on patrol if its not busy or attend serious calls and make decisions on the ground or even run things from the office alongside the SHO. He helps share the grunt work from the SHO's paperwork or they may split it.

As far as i'm aware the pay grade for Sergeant is the same, but increases incrementally as years go by until a certain ceiling. But i'm not sure what scale they are on.

Inspector (officer rank) is the next rank up and is a buffer between Sgt's & Superintendents - they may visit the sub stations more frequently than the Super and assist the Super by reviewing files, checking up on things, doing thier own investigations etc... and also attend incidents and give direction on what might be happening on the ground via chain of command.

Sergeant is the rank, as is Garda. I dont think there is any need for another senior/garda rank change - the reg numbers distinguish senior people which automatically tells you someones service and i would respect lads with more service... Much like detective garda and garda are two different things, although they are the same rank its just a lateral side step. I think it just complicates things to create more ranks


PSNI's structure is similar but seems to have more of higher rank/management... with a few more Chief's thrown in.

Chief Constable
Deputy Chief Constable
Assistant Chief Constable
Chief Superintendent
Superintendent
Chief Inspector
Inspector
Sergeant
Constable

goldie fish

Locust wrote: »

My understanding is that Sgt i/c or SHO or Member i/c are generally the same role - they are typically 'in house' - in the station (they have to be there) and are the person in charge of the station for that tour... Shift changes - new SHO's come in and take over. They are in a management/admin role over their unit and the station for that time - making decisions with prisoners, dealing with garda files, running the place logistically, doing up rosters etc...

A Section Sergeant (usually more junior to the SHO but senior to most of Garda rank give or take) may be attached to the unit working (usually larger units/areas will have a section sgt) he will be over the unit and have more regular contact with members and will usually go out with the unit on patrol if its not busy or attend serious calls and make decisions on the ground or even run things from the office alongside the SHO. He helps share the grunt work from the SHO's paperwork or they may split it.

As far as i'm aware the pay grade for Sergeant is the same, but increases incrementally as years go by until a certain ceiling. But i'm not sure what scale they are on.

Inspector (officer rank) is the next rank up and is a buffer between Sgt's & Superintendents - they may visit the sub stations more frequently than the Super and assist the Super by reviewing files, checking up on things, doing thier own investigations etc... and also attend incidents and give direction on what might be happening on the ground via chain of command.

Are you a garda?

Locust

Didn't we have this
discussion before?

pa990

Locust wrote: »

My understanding is that Sgt i/c or SHO or Member i/c are generally the same role - they are typically 'in house' - in the station (they have to be there) and are the person in charge of the station for that tour... Shift changes - new SHO's come in and take over. They are in a management/admin role over their unit and the station for that time - making decisions with prisoners, dealing with garda files, running the place logistically, doing up rosters etc...

A Section Sergeant (usually more junior to the SHO but senior to most of Garda rank give or take) may be attached to the unit working (usually larger units/areas will have a section sgt) he will be over the unit and have more regular contact with members and will usually go out with the unit on patrol if its not busy or attend serious calls and make decisions on the ground or even run things from the office alongside the SHO. He helps share the grunt work from the SHO's paperwork or they may split it.

As far as i'm aware the pay grade for Sergeant is the same, but increases incrementally as years go by until a certain ceiling. But i'm not sure what scale they are on.

Inspector (officer rank) is the next rank up and is a buffer between Sgt's & Superintendents - they may visit the sub stations more frequently than the Super and assist the Super by reviewing files, checking up on things, doing thier own investigations etc... and also attend incidents and give direction on what might be happening on the ground via chain of command.

Sergeant is the rank, as is Garda. I dont think there is any need for another senior/garda rank change - the reg numbers distinguish senior people which automatically tells you someones service and i would respect lads with more service... Much like detective garda and garda are two different things, although they are the same rank its just a lateral side step. I think it just complicates things to create more ranks

..............

your understanding is wrong

0O7

hmmmm, u have alot of spare time dude.

maybe u should ring them and go about changing them

norrie_1001

Locust wrote: »

Inspector (officer rank) is the next rank up and is a buffer between Sgt's & Superintendents

Inspectors are not officers. That is why they cannot wear white shirts. Only officers can wear white shirts.

angelfire9

norrie_1001 wrote: »

Inspectors are not officers. That is why they cannot wear white shirts. Only officers can wear white shirts.

Inspectors DO wear white shirts

CharlieCroker

norrie_1001 wrote: »

Inspectors are not officers. That is why they cannot wear white shirts. Only officers can wear white shirts.

An inspector is an officer.

Delancey

Below is taken from Wiki - RUC operated a Head Constable rank uptil the Hunt report of 1970.


1930 to 1970

• Inspector-General (insignia of a Lieutenant-General)
• Deputy Inspector-General (insignia of a Major-General)
• Commissioner (insignia of a Brigadier)
• County Inspector (insignia of a Colonel)
• District Inspector 1st Class (insignia of a Lieutenant-Colonel)
• District Inspector 2nd Class (insignia of a Major)
• District Inspector 3rd Class (insignia of a Captain)
• Head Constable Major (insignia of a Sergeant-Major)
• Head Constable (equivalent to Staff Sergeant)
• Sergeant (insignia of a Sergeant)
• Constable (serial number)

In 1970, the military-style rankings and insignia were dropped in favour of the standard UK police ranks

ieoinu

Roles of Sgt.'s vary from station to station.
Sergeant In-charge- Administrative role responsible for the running/management of the station. Roles can inc. duty details, finance, man-power, general maintenance etc etc. There is only 1 per station.

Station House Officer- Normally the more senior Sgt on a unit of there is more than 1. Responsible for supervision of working unit. Also has a role in the detention processing of prisoners as the Member In Charge. This role is normally only found in city stations.

Supervisory Sergeant- involves the supervision of Gardai on duty at the time attached to their unit, whether while on patrol paperwork etc.

Outside of the cities Dublin/Cork/Limerick etc the Duties of the SHO as Member IN Charge are carried out by Gardaí (normally the one that answers the counter will also perform the Member In Charge duties) and this rotates between members.

No difference with pay as there is no difference in rank. I believe there was a rank of Barrack Sergeant (Sergeant In Charge of the Station) in the Dublin Metropolitan Region years ago. But that could have been teh DMP or RIC.

Tyron Jara

ieoinu wrote: »

Roles of Sgt.'s vary from station to station.
Sergeant In-charge- Administrative role responsible for the running/management of the station. Roles can inc. duty details, finance, man-power, general maintenance etc etc. There is only 1 per station.

Station House Officer- Normally the more senior Sgt on a unit of there is more than 1. Responsible for supervision of working unit. Also has a role in the detention processing of prisoners as the Member In Charge. This role is normally only found in city stations.

Supervisory Sergeant- involves the supervision of Gardai on duty at the time attached to their unit, whether while on patrol paperwork etc.

Outside of the cities Dublin/Cork/Limerick etc the Duties of the SHO as Member IN Charge are carried out by Gardaí (normally the one that answers the counter will also perform the Member In Charge duties) and this rotates between members.

No difference with pay as there is no difference in rank. I believe there was a rank of Barrack Sergeant (Sergeant In Charge of the Station) in the Dublin Metropolitan Region years ago. But that could have been teh DMP or RIC.

I think they need to being this rank back if it was here before. Clearly a SHO or SIC has more duties than the average supervisory sergeant and probably deserve a rank of their own.

CharlieCroker

I don't think they have more duties, just different ones.

A supervisory/section sergeant is still working, but they tend to be out and about. It's the section Sgt that will attend any serious scene such as a death, serious collision, fire etc that may have a number of gardai at it who need to be managed properly and on a busy night a section Sgt can do a lot more work than an SHO.

Locust

norrie_1001 wrote: »

Inspectors are not officers. That is why they cannot wear white shirts. Only officers can wear white shirts.

Are you refering to An Garda Siochana or PSNI?
I was refering to AGS, which I was taught that from Inspector's rank and up is an Officer, hence the Red insignia on thier shoulder indicating they are brass... and thus we were supposed to stand to attention and salute them if in full uniform. Also the insp can act on behalf of the Super.

angelfire9 wrote: »

Inspectors DO wear white shirts

AGS or PSNI? My AGS inspector who normally works in uniform wears a blue shirt... as does my Super... as does my Chief Super... Assistant Commissioners however wear white shirts.

Locust

pa990 wrote: »

your understanding is wrong

My understanding is fine, elaborate/clarify, as the way things are done differ from station to division to region... Our Member In Charge is 99.99% of the time the SHO

Bosh

Inspectors DO NOT wear white shirts.

It is a sort of 'in-between' rank, they are neither fish nor fowl

They claim the same allowances and are entitled to claim overtime etc. the same as Garda & Sergeant rank, but carry out supervisory and management tasks.

Historically the rank was exactly as described, to inspect the lower ranks and report back to the Superentindent. In latter years they have been given more and more responsibility, prosecutor in courts outside DMR, acting up as District Officers, routinely handling discipline files and many other portfolios - traffic, crime, community policing etc.

It is also the last rank for which an exam is required to be passed to attain.

Superintendents & above normally wear a blue shirt for everyday duties, the white is for more formal occasions.

Superintendents and above are appointed by Govenment. They do not receive overtime, a number of years ago their pay was adjusted to address the anomaly where Inspectors were frequently earning far in excess of higher ranks.

HTH