Living in Britain - reputation of the Irish

coc.k_sh!t_

Hello everyone,

I know some friends have gone to Britain to work and I was thinking of moving there myself when i finish college but i'm a little worried about the possibilities that I may not be welcome there. I have done some research on jobs and where to go but sometimes i feel put off by the possibility that Irish are still not welcome and resented in the UK. I would love to live there as it is a lovely country with so much to do and so many attractions.

I heard in the 80's and 90's that Irish were despised over there and were always viewed with suspicion - at worst they were suspected of being potentially IRA terrorists or renegades or at best poor and ignorant bog bumkins coming to take the low pay jobs. I don't blame the Brits for feeling this way tbh cos that was often the case. This was not that long ago really and those stereo types might well persist.

What's more is that these feelings may become renewed as there is a steady influx of immigrants from ireland and th UK has its fair share of immigrant trouble without the poor relation next door looking for a piece of the action. Do the British think of the Irish in the same way as the Americans think of the Mexicans coming in - i know its not the same exactly as we are in EU and not coming illegally, but they could still very well resent our presence. Sometimes i cant help feeling that we are viewed as economic refugees fleeing a failed state, because if it was happening somwhere else thats what we would call it. I'm almost ashamed to admit to being irish now and its offputting to go somewhere as i will keep thinking they are just mocking and laughing at us as the "poor and ignorant relation", the old Paddy or Mick stereotype.

What are peoples opinions on this?
Would one be in phyical danger if it was known you were Irish?
do the 80's and 90's stereotypes and attitudes still persist?
is there a renewed feeling of resentment toward Irish as the influx from a failed state.
what have been the experiences of anyone who has gone there
(i have been there plenty on holidays, but thats not the same as you are spending money there and giving. When you go there for work you are taking from them)

coc.k_sh!t_

any takers out there

Dermo

coc.k_sh!t_ wrote: »

What are peoples opinions on this?
Would one be in phyical danger if it was known you were Irish?
do the 80's and 90's stereotypes and attitudes still persist?
is there a renewed feeling of resentment toward Irish as the influx from a failed state.
what have been the experiences of anyone who has gone there
(i have been there plenty on holidays, but thats not the same as you are spending money there and giving. When you go there for work you are taking from them)

1. You'll be fine as long as you don't go around spouting some anti-english sentiments.
2. No. You will not be in danger anymore than you would be in danger in dublin for saying you are a culchie.
3. No.
4. No.
5. I have lots of friends working there and I get sent there regularly for my job. As long as you are a hard worker and put the effort in, you will be fine.
You will not be "taking" from them. In fact you will be paying into their tax system which ends up funding their whole country. You as a tax paying worker are better than an occasional person who goes on holidays.

Fysh

At risk of sounding exceptionally facetious, having lived here for three years as a student between '99 and '02 and having subsequently moved here nearly four years ago, you're unlikely to run up against strong anti-Irish sentiment in the UK because most of the bigoted twits are too concerned about What Those Scary Brown People Are Doing to remember that the folks living on the island next door have in the past been, er, somewhat boisterous to say the least.

There may be certain areas with very very localised anti-Irish sentiment, but to be honest I'd be surprised. For the most part over here the main issue seems to be that a substantial number of English people don't understand hiberno-English humour. And for every person likely to comment on you being a refugee from a failed state you'll have at least ten times as many who have no knowledge whatsoever of Anglo-Irish history and who would express surprise if you were to point out the English role in Irish history.

Tl;dr version - You've nothing to worry about, make a plan for yourself and come on over

nitrogen

Lived in London for 6 years. To put it frankly, you sound like a time traveller from the past – have never come across anything you mentioned.

Most English people have some sort of Irish background – likewise with the Irish. Ireland might be a different country, but its culture, people and sense of humour isn't that different than its neighbour. Far less different than most Irish people would like to admit.

I've worked in offices where northerners (Manchester, Newcastle) get mocked by their accent, but an Irish accent is normal.

The Hill Billy

I've lived & worked in England for a number of years & in all my time there I was discriminated against 3 times. Once because I was white & twice because I was Irish. Based on the very many people that I socialised with, worked with & just encountered over those years - that is nothing to worry about. I met 3 dickheads who saw fit to give me guff over my colour or nationality. Big deal!

OP - How many hundreds of thousands of Irish or people of Irish descent live in England? Do you think that they's be there if they were being subjected to constant discrimination? This is 2011 - not 1961. The days of "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish" are long gone.

who the fug

25 years here, get more **** at home for coming from Cork than being Irish in London.

nitrogen

I forget the name of the writer, but he said he got more hassle in Dublin for being from the country than when he lived in London.

getz

come on over no problems for the irish in england,most english think irishmen are british anyway,london is a very international city and you may find it ,hard to make friends,or you may feel lonely,but if you settle in one of the northern cities,you will soon make friends,in the likes of manchester one in three have ,irish family/or irish ancestor,did not roy keene say ;he felt at home in manchester because the people are very much like the people of cork,

coc.k_sh!t_

getz wrote: »

he felt at home in manchester because the people are very much like the people of cork,

oh dear, i wont be going to manchester then......YE KNOW LIKE!

but seriously i will probably be going to somewhere in wales as thats where the type of work i'm going for is. (not coal mining BTW:)) there are several companies doing this work based in cardiff, newpot and merthyr. I know london is more international and that and more open, just wondering if wales and the welsh were a bit more conservative since they have smaller cities.

my neighbour was in camden working years ago and he said the gangers on the job treated the Irish like dirt. He said they were made to do REALLY unsafe things and once a few of them narrowly avoided death when concrete formwork collapsed. it was hard to get paid.

who the fug

coc.k_sh!t_ wrote: »

oh dear, i wont be going to manchester then......YE KNOW LIKE!

but seriously i will probably be going to somewhere in wales as thats where the type of work i'm going for is. (not coal mining BTW:)) there are several companies doing this work based in cardiff, newpot and merthyr. I know london is more international and that and more open, just wondering if wales and the welsh were a bit more conservative since they have smaller cities.

my neighbour was in camden working years ago and he said the gangers on the job treated the Irish like dirt. He said they were made to do REALLY unsafe things and once a few of them narrowly avoided death when concrete formwork collapsed. it was hard to get paid.

Three things like

Has a go at Getz for saying me old fella was a knacker. (Cork City = Limerick with a PR agent )

South Wales is fine the uber nutters by all accounts are up north

And finally, did your neighbour point out the majority of gangers in London are Irish , and their ranking by county for being barsteards is

1. Mayo
2. Donegal
3. Cork
4. Kerry

coc.k_sh!t_

who the fug wrote: »

Three things like

Has a go at Getz for saying me old fella was a knacker. (Cork City = Limerick with a PR agent )

South Wales is fine the uber nutters by all accounts are up north

And finally, did your neighbour point out the majority of gangers in London are Irish , and their ranking by county for being barsteards is

1. Mayo
2. Donegal
3. Cork
4. Kerry

he did say alright that some of the gangers were from Kerry. He said the only requirements for the job were to be big 'n' burly, thick, and be well able to shout. So they would shout at the workers to do stuff.,

i don't get what your on about saing i called Getz's old man a knacker. Whats all this about

dlofnep

The English people are hospitable to us Irish, at least in 2011. I don't envisage you having any problems to be honest. They almost see you as one of their own.

who the fug

coc.k_sh!t_ wrote: »

he did say alright that some of the gangers were from Kerry. He said the only requirements for the job were to be big 'n' burly, thick, and be well able to shout. So they would shout at the workers to do stuff.,

i don't get what your on about saing i called Getz's old man a knacker. Whats all this about

No
my old fella was from Manchester, and I have a low opinion of Cork city

Motley Crue

coc.k_sh!t_ wrote: »

What are peoples opinions on this?
Would one be in phyical danger if it was known you were Irish?
do the 80's and 90's stereotypes and attitudes still persist?
is there a renewed feeling of resentment toward Irish as the influx from a failed state.
what have been the experiences of anyone who has gone there
(i have been there plenty on holidays, but thats not the same as you are spending money there and giving. When you go there for work you are taking from them)

I've lived in Newcastle, and Scotland, the past few years and moved from Ireland after I finished college. I can give you some advice....

1. My opinion is that, for the most part, English and Scottish people in the region I have lived are most welcoming of the Irish. After a while of living here I found people generally didn't ask where I was from. When they heard my accent they assumed I was foreign, but didn't bother to enquire as to what part, region or city I came from - and I'm rarely, if ever, asked about my life. I am treated as an equal and have never had anything to fear or hide.

2. Physical danger, no, sure there are parts of London, Manchester and Liverpool that are more Irish than British. The communities of Irish in every major UK city are noticeable, if not for students then for those who come over on stag parties, and given Newcastle has a large Chinese community as well as an Irish and Indian community I have never heard of physical violence towards any of them...or us...

3. Yes, some attitudes still persist, but not the one's that you expect. For example, I'm almost the Northern Ireland correspondent for the people I work with. Every few days there will be something mentioned on the "senseless conflict" and I'll be the one who is expected to comment on something, even though most of them never bothered to find out I'm from Dublin

4. I do not feel there is a resentment towards the Irish in the area in which I live. I don't feel that anyone who comes from a failed state, or even a country in worse trouble like those seeking political asylum, have anything to fear. I've worked with asylum seekers and immigrants and they have never experienced much racial aggression.

5. My experiences have been positive and negative. I have found some good jobs, although not in the area I originally set out to work full time in, and despite my best intentions I still feel rather lonely and isolated at times. This is more down to the fact that I work from home and on casual employments, I never stay around long enough to know people, and I work with a lot of people who come in from out of town due to the nature of my work. But I will say that culturally I enjoy the UK and feel no ill will towards anyone here.

getz

coc.k_sh!t_ wrote: »

oh dear, i wont be going to manchester then......YE KNOW LIKE!

but seriously i will probably be going to somewhere in wales as thats where the type of work i'm going for is. (not coal mining BTW:)) there are several companies doing this work based in cardiff, newpot and merthyr. I know london is more international and that and more open, just wondering if wales and the welsh were a bit more conservative since they have smaller cities.

my neighbour was in camden working years ago and he said the gangers on the job treated the Irish like dirt. He said they were made to do REALLY unsafe things and once a few of them narrowly avoided death when concrete formwork collapsed. it was hard to get paid.

south wales is OK,but it can be a bit tricky in north wales unless you are a welsh speaker,

questionmark?

No probs what so ever in fact the womez here in Bristol love the Irish accent (not being single I cant take advantage of this)

So many people here have some sort of Irish blood in them. Quite amazing actually.

Most do not even know the whole anglo-Irish history and some dont even know that the Island of Ireland has the Republic and the North:eek:

They will have a laugh over the accent but 99.9% of this is in good fun. The best way is to mimic theirs. Giving where I live they have a such a big farmers accent. Be prepared for the whole say thirty three. Also be prepared for random people saying oh I love the accent or that accent is lush.

Dont try and explain hurling if they ask. Its too difficult they think its like Hockey!!

A conversation about the North recently with a bloke who actually know what the story is, said one thing that stood out "what the hell is all the marching thing about. twats" <not my words mods.> People honestly dont care/dont know/dont want to know or are too worried about Islamic fundamentalists to care about things like Norn Iron.

I was like you OP at first bit nervous about the reaction but honestly its fine. It aint home but sure jasus i'll enjoy the work, money and the craic while I'm here and so should you.

BTW pints. well expect lots of change from a fiver;)

pippin04

Have to say I lived in London for a year and while the people I worked with were lovely (bar one who insisted on making IRA comments and making me say 33 and 1/3 the whole time) I did get a bit of abuse on nights out.
My worst experience was one guy on Leicester square who tole me to "fook off back to Belfast" as I was "nothing but a filthy catholic", however he did say his grandad was a black and tan who "I killed" so thats prob why he has such a chip on his shoulder.
Did find Londoners a different to the rest of the english bit more driven and look out for No.1 attitude took me a while to adjust. Although thats just the way I saw it I still have friends there who love it.

And even if there is a bit of fear there I say go for it, its only a short flight home, try it out and you never know you might love it!

endabob1

7 years in London 4 in the midlands only flak I ever got was during the IRA bombing campaign of the late 90's (Hamersmith Bridge & the lad on the bus near Whitehall, era) when the odd racist comment was flung about.

Generally England is loverly place and the people are the same, a mix of good and bad. I'd go back again no worries.

JohnMearsheimer

coc.k_sh!t_ wrote: »

oh dear, i wont be going to manchester then......YE KNOW LIKE!

but seriously i will probably be going to somewhere in wales as thats where the type of work i'm going for is. (not coal mining BTW:)) there are several companies doing this work based in cardiff, newpot and merthyr. I know london is more international and that and more open, just wondering if wales and the welsh were a bit more conservative since they have smaller cities.

my neighbour was in camden working years ago and he said the gangers on the job treated the Irish like dirt. He said they were made to do REALLY unsafe things and once a few of them narrowly avoided death when concrete formwork collapsed. it was hard to get paid.

I lived in Cardiff for 2 years. You will have zero trouble for being Irish. The worst I got was people in my office asking me to say 33 and 1/3 but I get that here in Canada too. Merthyr can be a rough enough spot...not a whole lot to do there.

My uncle worked on the building sites in London in the 1970s during the troubles. He said being Irish in London at that time could be hard but these days you will not have any trouble.

mikemac

Zero problems in Yorkshire when I worked there.
Lovely people and realy, pretty much the same as Irish people. Found them relaxed and laid back.
If you can talk about football you are halfway there

You now come from "Southern Ireland". Don't worry about it, must be what they learn in school

Then I went to London and initially I thought people were unfriendly.
Go,go, go, rush everywhere, never make eye contact. What's your rush like?
It's not unfriendly, just the way it is

Even the Yorkshire people used to have jokes about the Londeners, much the same people in the Midlands joke about Dublin. Just banter

The only comments I got where "that's Irish". Folder goes missing and that's Irish. Invoice is incorrect and that's Irish.
Wasn't realy aimed at me, I just don't like that saying but realy, you hear it in Ireland too. I realy dislike it

JohnMearsheimer

mikemac wrote: »

You now come from "Southern Ireland".

Ha, when people asked me where I was from I would say Ireland. The next question was usually northern or southern? I always found it odd that many British people couldn't tell. I guess after all my years of watching British tv I'm able to place UK people by their accents...Geordies, Brummies etc.

getz

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

Ha, when people asked me where I was from I would say Ireland. The next question was usually northern or southern? I always found it odd that many British people couldn't tell. I guess after all my years of watching British tv I'm able to place UK people by their accents...Geordies, Brummies etc.

not odd at all,when you remember the population off ireland is very small when compared to the UK, counties like yorkshire for inst has a bigger population than ireland,scotland or wales,i bet you cannot tell between the different yorkshire accents, bradford,[west yorkshire,]sheffield[south yorkshire]scarborough[north yorkshire] i know most englishmen cannot.so why is it odd that they cannot tell different accents in foreign country ?

JohnMearsheimer

No, I cannot tell the difference between localised British accents but I would consider an Ulster/Northern accent to be quite distinctive from the rest of the island of Ireland. The difference may not be clear to non-native English speakers but the difference should be clearer to those whose first language is English. I worked with a guy from Belfast and a few other Irish guys in Vancouver and our Canadian colleagues commented a few times on the difference between our accents and his.

getz

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

No, I cannot tell the difference between localised British accents but I would consider an Ulster/Northern accent to be quite distinctive from the rest of the island of Ireland. The difference may not be clear to non-native English speakers but the difference should be clearer to those whose first language is English. I worked with a guy from Belfast and a few other Irish guys in Vancouver and our Canadian colleagues commented a few times on the difference between our accents and his.

most native english know the difference between the accents in ireland north and south,but we have such a large world culture now in the UK that many know nothing about ireland, or even england ,in fact many people working for the goverment do not know anything about their own history and culture,my wife was told by a person who worked for the DVLA, when she sent for her new driving licence,that because she was born in gibraltar she wasent british,i was once told by a irish woman when i worked in a bar in london,to f.... off back to my own country,and i am from manchester,

sudzs

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

Ha, when people asked me where I was from I would say Ireland. The next question was usually northern or southern? I always found it odd that many British people couldn't tell. I guess after all my years of watching British tv I'm able to place UK people by their accents...Geordies, Brummies etc.

It's not that they can't tell, they are just don't have a clue. I always reply to the are you from Northern or Southern Ireland question by saying "Republic of, actually"! Just got fed up with it especially from the same woman in the Post Office who after asking and being politely explained to at least 10 times, persisted in asking the same bloody question.... "northern or southern?" :rolleyes:

UDAWINNER

whats the sory with this 33 and 1/3 business.

getz

sudzs wrote: »

It's not that they can't tell, they are just don't have a clue. I always reply to the are you from Northern or Southern Ireland question by saying "Republic of, actually"! Just got fed up with it especially from the same woman in the Post Office who after asking and being politely explained to at least 10 times, persisted in asking the same bloody question.... "northern or southern?" :rolleyes:

get over it,just think that if you were from greece you would be telling everyone you were from [officialy]from the hellenic republic.

sudzs

getz wrote: »

get over it,just think that if you were from greece you would be telling everyone you were from [officialy]from the hellenic republic.

What's to get over? It's a minor irritation caused by people who probably were taught geography with the use of a map of the world, predominantly coloured pink! As dear old Gran would say, more to be pitied!!!

mikemac

I'd say most Irish students know more about their history then they do themselves.

Watching the UK Apprentice and they decided Christoper Columbus was a British explorer who discovered the potato in America.
Hmmm, not the first person they've claimed as one of their own

UDAWINNER wrote: »

whats the sory with this 33 and 1/3 business.

It's just an very obvious way for the accent to be shown.

I was making an order from Newcastle over the phone and they told me they loved how I said three.

But if I was in a pub and someone was testing me and trying to get me to say it, well I wouldn't be happy over it :mad:

who the fug

sudzs wrote: »

What's to get over? It's a minor irritation caused by people who probably were taught geography with the use of a map of the world, predominantly coloured pink! As dear old Gran would say, more to be pitied!!!

Or it could just refer to the geographical location, same as in the eighties we refered to East Germany & West Germany not German Democratic Republic and Federal Republic of Germany


One is looking for something that is not there

getz

sudzs wrote: »

What's to get over? It's a minor irritation caused by people who probably were taught geography with the use of a map of the world, predominantly coloured pink! As dear old Gran would say, more to be pitied!!!

houston we have a problem

realdanbreen

coc.k_sh!t_ wrote: »

oh dear, i wont be going to manchester then......YE KNOW LIKE!

but seriously i will probably be going to somewhere in wales as thats where the type of work i'm going for is. (not coal mining BTW:)) there are several companies doing this work based in cardiff, newpot and merthyr. I know london is more international and that and more open, just wondering if wales and the welsh were a bit more conservative since they have smaller cities.

my neighbour was in camden working years ago and he said the gangers on the job treated the Irish like dirt. He said they were made to do REALLY unsafe things and once a few of them narrowly avoided death when concrete formwork collapsed. it was hard to get paid.

I also worked in London many years ago and the gangers treated(or at least tried) me like dirt and conditions were unsafe.However in each case the gangers were Irish. I worked on many sites and when it came to working conditions or getting paid on time Paddy was always the worst.That said , the craic was mighty.

who the fug

realdanbreen wrote: »

I also worked in London many years ago and the gangers treated(or at least tried) me like dirt and conditions were unsafe.However in each case the gangers were Irish. I worked on many sites and when it came to working conditions or getting paid on time Paddy was always the worst.That said , the craic was mighty.

Sad but very true

JaneHudson

mikemac wrote: »

It's just an very obvious way for the accent to be shown.

They like it because it sounds like 'turd'.