Banned from taxation forum

censuspro

I was recently banned from the taxation forum for responding to a thread giving tax advice which is not permitted as per the charter.

I emailed the moderator asking for some clarity in relation to the taxation forum. This is the email I sent.

Further to my recent ban from the taxation forum and as per the dispute resolution procedure, your moderation of the taxation forum appears to be very inconsistent. You’ve outlined in the charter that “Any legal/tax/accountancy advice sought or given will result in an immediate week long ban”

Here are examples of threads that you recently locked and bans were issued:
Is my tax right?
Tax treatment of royalty income
Business Relief
House rental
Good lawyer/accountant for Tax Rebate
Taxation on stock options
Buying a House through my Company

However here are examples of threads that remain open.
CGT on Shares if Temporary Non-Resident
Tax Back Entitlement Query - advice needed!
Tax relief on fees?
Writing off a financial loss against CGT on profit from shares
Sole trader question.
Small e-commerce tax dilemma

In all the threads above, direct tax advice has been sought and or given, yet there appears to be no consistency in the moderation.

You’ve also outlined in the charter that all property tax threads will be closed on the basis that the potential liability could run into thousands of Euro, however this is the case for all tax queries and in that case every tax thread should be closed.

Can you please provide some clarity on exactly what threads are allowed and what ones are not. Inconsistently locking threads and issuing bans only serves to stifle any discussion on the taxation thread.

This is the response I received.

Mr. Incognito wrote:

No.

Read the charter.

If you have any issues with Modding take it to feedback.

I make a judgement call on liability based on my own experience.

If you don't like it- take it to feedback. I have no time for engaging in pointless debate or justification for modding functions. One of the paramount rules here is that all mod decisions are final. If you don't like the way I am modding the taxation forum I suggest you refrain from visiting there.

Have a nice day. Most mods would issue you a further ban at this point. I'll refrain but if you raise this issue again by PM expect a lengthy ban.

Based on the moderators reply its fair to say that I won't get any feedback. Can a C Mod look at this and try and come to a resolution?

Mr. Incognito

Pms are not normally released to general consumption as part of any dispute.

However as the OP has decided to go down this route here is a copy of all correspondence.

Hi censuspro,

You have been banned from Taxation for the following duration:

3 Day(s)

for the following reason:

replying to property thread

Providing your ban is not permanent, it will be lifted automatically after 3 Day(s). You will get an automatic message informing you that the ban is lifted. If you do not receive this message after the allotted time, please PM a moderator to clarify.

Bans occur after a serious rules breach so please keep in mind that Moderators don't just decide to ban people out of the blue. If you wish to appeal this ban, please follow our Dispute Resolution Process here. Your first action should always be to PM the Moderator(s) of the forum to discuss the ban. Remember that our Mods are volunteers and are not always online, so they may not be able to answer you straight away.

All the best,
boards.ie

Re: Banned from Taxation

CensusPro

---

Why make the distinction with property and not all topics?

have you even read the charter?

property thread liability runs into thousands of euro for incorrect advice and a vexed boardsie might sue.

if you wish to provide me with a professional indemntiy cert then you can reply openly on your own liability.

until then if you have an issue take it to feedback.

CensusProAll tax queries could potentially run into thousands of euro.

Thank you for that informative comment. If you have any criticisms of mod functions take it to feedback as I will delete and forget it.

CensusProAs will I

CensusPro Further to my recent ban from the taxation forum and as per the dispute resolution procedure, your moderation of the taxation forum appears to be very inconsistent. You’ve outlined in the charter that “Any legal/tax/accountancy advice sought or given will result in an immediate week long ban”

Here are examples of threads that you recently locked and bans were issued:
Is my tax right?
Tax treatment of royalty income
Business Relief
House rental
Good lawyer/accountant for Tax Rebate
Taxation on stock options
Buying a House through my Company

However here are examples of threads that remain open.
CGT on Shares if Temporary Non-Resident
Tax Back Entitlement Query - advice needed!
Tax relief on fees?
Writing off a financial loss against CGT on profit from shares
Sole trader question.
Small e-commerce tax dilemma

In all the threads above, direct tax advice has been sought and or given, yet there appears to be no consistency in the moderation.

You’ve also outlined in the charter that all property tax threads will be closed on the basis that the potential liability could run into thousands of Euro, however this is the case for all tax queries and in that case every tax thread should be closed.

Can you please provide some clarity on exactly what threads are allowed and what ones are not. Inconsistently locking threads and issuing bans only serves to stifle any discussion on the taxation thread.

No.

Read the charter.

If you have any issues with Modding take it to feedback.

I make a judgement call on liability based on my own experience.

If you don't like it- take it to feedback. I have no time for engaging in pointless debate or justification for modding functions. One of the paramount rules here is that all mod decisions are final. If you don't like the way I am modding the taxation forum I suggest you refrain from visiting there.

Have a nice day. Most mods would issue you a further ban at this point. I'll refrain but if you raise this issue again by PM expect a lengthy ban.

This is not a dispute. OP broke the rules. Received a minor infraction (replying should be a week ban) and is now throwing toys out of Pram.

He has then gone to great length to try and trawl through every topic that was and was not locked.

I'd be inclined to slap another weeks ban at this point for wasting everyones time and being too lazy to read the charter.

Not only does the charter prohibit his activities there is a SECOND warning in CAPS warning that property threads are banned.

censuspro

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Pms are not normally released to general consumption as part of any dispute.
However as the OP has decided to go down this route here is a copy of all correspondence.

The guidelines at the top of the page state that:

Private message conversations in relation to the topic at hand are ok to publish in this forum in an attempt to resolve an issue. This is contrary to normal Boards.ie Guidelines that permission be sought before publication of any PMs sent or received.

This is not a dispute. OP broke the rules. Received a minor infraction (replying should be a week ban) and is now throwing toys out of Pram.

He has then gone to great length to try and trawl through every topic that was and was not locked.
You should attack the post and not the poster. It's not a case of trawling every locked thread, each of the threads I've highlighted were all posted this month. It appears that your posts are directly at me rather than addressing the points that I made about moderating the taxation forum.

I'd be inclined to slap another weeks ban at this point for wasting everyones time and being too lazy to read the charter.

Each of the threads I've highlighted were all posted this month. It also appears that your posts are directed at me rather than addressing the points that I made about moderating the taxation forum.

BTW, I’m also following the guidelines set out in your own charter which says:

Issues with moderators
We are here to protect you and boards.ie. We do not expect to have any trouble in this forum, but there may be issues between posters and moderators. If you have an issue, use the private messaging function or else start a thread in Feedback. Do not give out in this forum about any moderator whatsoever.

I tried raising the subject with you and asked you to clarify the issues I raised, you made it clear that you were not interested in discussing it any further so I started a thread in feedback.

Not only does the charter prohibit his activities there is a SECOND warning in CAPS warning that property threads are banned.

The point is that you are handing out bans to posters for merely replying to threads but it is impossible to determine which threads poster are allowed to contribute to because the moderation is so inconsistent as I’ve highlighted in the original post. When you lobbied for the taxation forum what did you expect people to discuss if not taxation?

Mr. Incognito

Each of the threads I've highlighted were all posted this month. It also appears that your posts are directed at me rather than addressing the points that I made about moderating the taxation forum.

You seem to be under some sort of deluded impression that I owe you an explanation on mod functions or an application of the yardstick for banning someone??

The yardstick is the charter. Try reading it.

The purpose of feedback is to arbitrate disputes. There is no dispute here. You broke the charter. Take you ban and be done with it.

When you lobbied for the taxation forum what did you expect people to discuss if not taxation?

Once again consult the carter. The forum is for discussion of tax matters NOT specific advice and NOT property threads. You broke both rules. End of.

If you feel that is being applied inconsistently, its very simple. Don't post specific advice and don't rely to property threads and you don't have to worry about my application.

I'm still waiting on an admin call for a further ban to be issued because frankly, this is wasting everyones time.

dudara

This to let you know that Mr. Incognito has bought this thread to my attention, and I will be looking into it. Please bear with me.

dudara

censuspro

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

You seem to be under some sort of deluded impression that I owe you an explanation on mod functions or an application of the yardstick for banning someone??

The yardstick is the charter. Try reading it.

The purpose of feedback is to arbitrate disputes. There is no dispute here. You broke the charter. Take you ban and be done with it.

Once again consult the carter. The forum is for discussion of tax matters NOT specific advice and NOT property threads. You broke both rules. End of.

If you feel that is being applied inconsistently, its very simple. Don't post specific advice and don't rely to property threads and you don't have to worry about my application.

I'm still waiting on an admin call for a further ban to be issued because frankly, this is wasting everyones time.

There in lies the problem, it's impossible to determine what is deemed to be tax advice and what is tax discussion based on the moderating. For example, the Business Relief thread on 11/07/2011 was deemed to be tax advice because the thread was locked and a seven day ban was issued. However, the thread Writing off a financial loss against CGT on profit from shares on 16/07/2011, a thread which you contributed to, where the OP clearly requests for tax advice remained open.

Mr. Incognito

One is specific advice on PROPERTY relief.

The other is not- it is general and links to general overview was given- as per the charter.

I really don't think you are getting the concept here.

You are not the mod police.

There is NO dispute that you broke the charter. You agree. I agree and by right I should ban you for even questioning mod functions but i'll leave a c mod adjudicate and ban you instead.

censuspro

I don't want to get into a trollish debate on this but what you've said here is just not correct:

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

One is specific advice on PROPERTY relief..

There is no such thing a PROPERTY relief, the OP was referring to Business relief S90-101 CATCA.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

The other is not- it is general and links to general overview was given- as per the charter.

Just read the first post where the OP clearly states "I'm looking for confirmation on this". The OP is requesting specific tax advice on the buying and selling of shares.

Hey Guys,
Need your expertise on this. Some of my shares have done well over the last 5 years and some have been nationalised !

I think it is but I'm looking for confirmation on this...If I sell my shares and make a profit now can i write off the loss against my liability for CGT?

Here's hoping you can answer this !

The OP is cleary requesting specific tax advice on the buying and selling of shares. This is a breach of charter guidelines which appear to be applied inconsistently as outlined above.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

There is NO dispute that you broke the charter. You agree. I agree and by right I should ban you for even questioning mod functions but i'll leave a c mod adjudicate and ban you instead.

You also broke the charter by replying to a thread requesting very specific tax advice. If you read the charter it says:

Any legal/tax/accountancy advice sought or given will result in an immediate week long ban. Second offences result in an indefinite ban.

Also, on what basis are you so confident that I will receive a further ban from the c mod. I received a ban, I raised it with you via pm which you didn't want to discuss and now I've brought it here. These are the guidelines outlined in the taxation forum charter where it says

Issues with moderators
We are here to protect you and boards.ie. We do not expect to have any trouble in this forum, but there may be issues between posters and moderators. If you have an issue, use the private messaging function or else start a thread in Feedback. Do not give out in this forum about any moderator whatsoever.

You even reitterated this in your pm to me which is deailed in my previous post. It's also consistent with dispute resolution process at the top of this page. So on what basis would I receive a further ban?

Mr. Incognito

oh dear lord.

I don't think i can even reply to this only to say the following.

the op in the first case is looking for relief that applies to property. He is enquiring about an apartment. it is CAT relief that applies where a child is in occupation of land for five years pre gift and there is an exemption from CAT. The disponer would still be liable to CGT and perhaps VAT on the transfer. Consanguity relief would half the stamp duty unless the recipent was a 1st time buyer. He is clearly confusing this with favourite nephew relief.

these are the compexities of property. This is why there is a ban in place. I could give advice all day long but i have a job and i charge people for this advice in the real world.

you are quoting ( the wrong sections btw) of CAT legislation at me. It is obvious you have no clue about tax so i will not engage in a debate with you. it is half cocked and incorrect knowledge that opens boards up to litigation. someone that has half a clue is more dangerous that someone that does not.

as for no such thing as a property relief? there are a whole host of them. even simple things like capital allowances are property reliefs.

I have no problem with someone looking for confirmation that losses on shares are available for offset against the gain. It is easy to post a link to something that confirms this. That is a general enquiry.

On the third point I guess I should ban myself then :rolleyes:

You have abused the reporting procedure that was put here for legitimate complaints.

i would ban you for this alone but that is for a C mod to decide.

As stated above i will allow you to post freely if you wish to foward me a copy of your AITI professional indemnity insurance or similar.

oscarBravo

Three things: first, continuing a debate from that forum into this one is not acceptable. Please stop it. Second, Mr. Incognito - you shouldn't be posting here until you're asked to do so by the category moderator. Third, the category moderator has stated that he's looking into it, so it's in his hands now. If input is required from either of you, he'll ask for it.

jor el

censuspro wrote: »

Can a C Mod look at this and try and come to a resolution?

Been away since yesterday, and just looking over this now. It seems to me that the issue surrounds the fact that specific taxation advice is not allowed, due to the possible legal problems it could cause. To do so results in a ban. This is much like giving legal advice on the Legal Discussion forums, or medical advice in the Medical forums, not being allowed.

You did give such advice, and hence were given a 3 day ban for ignoring the rule. So it seems that the ban was right, and in accordance with the forum rules. It is also worth noting that your ban period expired 20 days ago.

You also seem to have other issues, in regards to the rule not being universally applied. It is impossible for mods to read all posts in a forum. Ones that they notice, or that are brought to their attention, will be assessed. The mod can also make a judgement call as to which thread might be locked, and which remains open, and while two threads may look the same, the mod may not have come to that conclusion.

If the issue is that the forum rules need to change, then that is a wider discussion, and not for the DRP forum.