GG Grandfathers wedding in 1885- need help

WDD

Hi Guys, I'm searching for my family tree on both sides (I know.....a lot of work). I didn't think it would be, but I'm addicted now lol.
Just a quick question........I've managed to track my GGG Grandfather to my GG Grandfathers wedding in 1885 but then the trail goes cold, I've been surfing the net for months in an effort to further my search but it's been futile so far.......ant idea's? both families are from Dublin, Ireland.

nomull27

Your could try the griffith valuation on www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml, but thats mainly for country people...
Your could also check the Tithe Apploments Book, in the 1820's, but the writing is horrible! And you can go on ancestry.com but you have to pay unless you registered.

pinkypinky

Thanks to the mods for splitting the thread...just to put in what I said above for the benefit of others:


I presume you've read the first few posts on the sticky and looked at the various options? Give us some more detail and we can take a look. Dublin ancestors are not as difficult as they used to be - between Irishgenealogy.ie and the census.

Griffiths Valuation/Tithe Applotments would be too early for your ancestors at this stage, especially if you don't have a location. To correct nomull27 though, Griffiths covers all rateable property in the country, so it does include cities, but it can be harder to narrow it down to your person, compared with rural ancestors who have always been in the same town, for example.

WDD

Hi All, Thanks for your help. I have tried the Griffiths Evaluation but not the Tithe Books (are they available online?). My GGG Grandad's name was Edward Dalton, searches on any of the main online databases have yielded nothing on his name?? I really appreciate all your replies.

shanew

If you post the details of that marriage (e.g. date and place of marriage, grooms name & occupation, Bride's name, residences of the bride and groom, father's names and occupation etc... ) we may be able advise on searching further back..

To find earlier details for the fathers, and probably the bride and groom, for an 1885 marriage you would need to check parish records so it would depend on what denomination your Daltons were, and where exactly they lived at the time .. i.e. which parish. as not all Dublin city parish record detail are online. Further RC records for Dublin City are due to be added to the IrishGenealogy website later this year..


Shane

WDD

Hi Shane, Thanks for your reply. My GG Grandfather (John Dalton) was married to Jane Brangan in 1885 and the only record I have of my GGG Grandfather is on their marraige info, other than that I've no information on Edward Dalton (GGG Grandfather) and now I'm stuck?????

shanew

on the marriage cert - what residence does John give and what is given for his, and his father's, occupations ?


Shane

WDD

John lived at 1 Fitzwilliam Lane, Dublin and Edwards (and John's) occupation is unregistered. When I say marrige cert, I mean the info on the Irish Government website Shane. Thanks for your efforts. Any Idea's????

shanew

I see the record you mean - it's an RC parish record, so will not show an occupation - http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/f5a81b1383537

It might be worth ordering a cert (i.e. civil record) from the GRO - this will show the occupations, which might help ..

have you found John (and maybe his father) on the census returns ?
This would show his occupation and place of birth


Shane

shanew

from Thom's 1885

1 Fitzwilliam Lane - John Murphy, bottle dealer

1 Fitzwilliam Street Upr - Henry A. West, barrister

I am guessing that the bride may have been in service at the barristers house, maybe your John worked with the bottle dealer ?

The occupation can help sometimes with certain trades, occupations and businesses - but will not help for labourers etc.

You didn't mention years of birth for John or Jane, but based on the marriage date I'd think they were probably born before the start of civil records, so to work back further for them check baptism records. Unless you know where they where born (i.e. which parish) then it's a case of waiting for new RC records for the city to be added to the IrishGenealogy website.

The references you need to order a cert for the marriage are :

name: John Dalton
registration district: Dublin South
Event type: Marriage
Quarter and year: Jan - Mar 1885
volume: 2 / Page : 691

name: Jane Brangan
[same references as John]

Shane

shanew

would these be your Dalton family on the census returns ?

1901 - http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Stillorgan/Stillorgan_Park/1315028/

1911 - http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Stillorgan/Jolly_s_Lane/93368/

Unfortunately this John is listed as 'General Labourer', so will not appear in any directories etc...

They've moved out to Stillorgan by 1901, but the older children are listed as being born in Dublin City. Both parents list their place of birth as Co. Dublin - so John and Jane could have been baptised outside the area covered by the IrishGenealogy website, which has mostly city records.

baptism of son Edward in St. Andrews RC in 1887 seem to confirm this as the correct family - http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/5318411203923


Shane

WDD

Hi Shane, thanks for all that info, The census information is my GG Grandfathers family, Laurence was my great grandfather. That reference code for the marraige cert is fantastic, thanks so much. How did you find it? The news of the bottle dealer and barrister is brilliant because I wasn't aware of any of that. You're good at this.

shanew

The BMD Index results are from the familysearch website - I'm sure there's a link in the sticky at the top of this forum... here's a copy : https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/show#uri=http://hr-search-api:8080/searchapi/search/collection/1408347

You can use the details to order a cert from the GRO (see: http://www.groireland.ie/apply_for_a_cert.htm), or pick one up in their research room in Abbey Street in Dublin. If you are ordering a research cert by post from GRO Roscommon you can ignore most of the details on the order form - RSI number, date of marriage etc - just ensure you include the references above on a separate page.


Shane

WDD

Thanks Shane, I'll be ordering the marraige cert in the next week. Hopfully this will open the search a little more for me. Do you know how far back I could go realistically? I'm using the "Legacy" software for recording all my information at the moment, have you used this or would you recomend something else???

shanew

Once you go past the start of civil records the search gets more difficult... but if you can establish a link to earlier parish records, and the family stayed in the same area, you can often get back to the 1830s or so. RC records for rural areas are not very common before this time..

I believe I did try Legacy at one stage, but I use a web-based system named TNG as it has several features the suited me better than any of the tradition PC based programs. The main one being I can view and edit the details from any location with internet access.



Shane

WDD

Thanks for all your help Shane, you've been fantastic. I'll let you know how I get on with the marraige cert, hopefully it'll give me something more to work with. Chat Soon.
Kindest Regards,
Wayne.