MMA not recognised by ISC

fightireland

I just had a chat with a lady in work who was certain that the Irish Sports Council will never recognise MMA as a sport.

I wonder what take people have on this.

Is there a lobbying group out there and what are the implications?

Cheers.

SDTimeout

Did she know what MMA was off the bat or did you have to explain it.

mark.leonard

Who cares?
I am probably missing the significance, but I don't see any detriment to MMA this far, why should we care if some ill-informed Irish sporting body ratifies us or not?

HellsAngel

I wouldn't be surprised if they were saying the same about ' Karaty ' back in the 60's, I'd it was seen as some sort of James Bond assassin kind of thing back then

cowzerp

Its totally irrelevant and unnecessary so as Mark says-who cares, we do a good job of running it safely and proffessionally without some busy bodies who know nothing about it getting involved

fightireland

Thanks for the replies.

It was actually to do with a sponsorship deal - her point was - as the sport is not ISC approved some companies would not get involved.

It peed me off

Clive

The ISC don't recognise sports, they recognise a group as a national governing body for a sport in Ireland. Since there is no group looking for said recognition, it's a moot point.

fightireland

Clive wrote: »

The ISC don't recognise sports, they recognise a group as a national governing body for a sport in Ireland. Since there is no group looking for said recognition, it's a moot point.

That's it so!

Mellor

fightireland wrote: »

That's it so!

There's no MMA body so not an issue.
It's basically a national version of the IOC (international olympic committee), so if MMA became an olympic sport, and ireland wanted to compete. A body would need to be set up and then ISC would then accept them, and prob even help them set up, form a code of ethics etc.

But its a complete moot point, MMA isn't becoming an olympic sport, nobody is looking for it to be. And most importantly and it isn't suited to international amatuer competition with a scoring system like boxing.

To highlight how much of a non-issue this that ISC not "recognise" MMA, they also don't "recognise" professional boxing, only amatuer. (as pointed out above its not recognition, but rather association with the governing body)

fightireland

Thanks lads - really appreciate the responses - very interesting point about pro-boxing it shows how farcical the situation is.

Clive

fightireland wrote: »

Thanks lads - really appreciate the responses - very interesting point about pro-boxing it shows how farcical the situation is.

Farcical how? Do you think MMA or pro boxing should be given taxpayer's money?

OLDMAN1

combat grappling is part of FILA sports and the ISC reconises the IAWA

fightireland

Clive wrote: »

Farcical how? Do you think MMA or pro boxing should be given taxpayer's money?

Nice try Clive but you won't draw me into a discussion on taxes nor is this the place for that.

It's farcical that somebody could the opinion that MMA is not a sport.

Good man.

Sid_Justice

I think the point being made that for ISC to recognise an activity as a sport they have an obligation to assist it in many ways, including funding. For a sport like Mixed Martial arts, which has no recognised national governing body or international governing body there really isn't any structure for the ISC to interact with. If someone from the ISC wanted to get involved with lets say either youth development of mma or anti-doping testing for competitions, who would they contact? John Ferguson? John Kavanagh?

I think the majority of people in MMA are in agreement that a NGB might be a nice thing to have, but far from essential and probably not worth the hassle. I think anyone that has been involved in other sports can see that MMA isn't actually something that is highly deserved of ISC intervention. MMA is a sport but it doesn't operate like any other typical amateur sports. So in some ways I feel people are entitled to question why Lotto money or tax money is spent on scholarships for swimmers and runners but it's even more difficult to justify spending on MMA athletes.

I would also presume that the big wigs in the ISC, probably don't understand MMA, have no interest in it and probably do have some 1990's attitude that it's human cock fighting and should be banned. In time I expect those attitudes to diminish.

I think a sport like BJJ would benefit more from ISC approval.

"The Irish Sports Council aims to plan, lead and co-ordinate the sustainable development of competitive and recreational sport in Ireland"


The Irish Sports Council's vision is one where sport contributes to enhancing the quality of Irish life and:

Everyone is encouraged and valued in sport;
Young people see sport participation as an integral and enjoyable part of their busy lives;
Individuals can develop their sporting abilities and enhance their enjoyment, limited only by their talent and commitment; and
Irish sportsmen and women achieve consistent world-class performance, fairly.

The Irish Sports Council was established on 1 July 1999 under the Irish Sports Council Act and is a statutory authority comprising of eight major divisions:

Anti-Doping
Corporate Services
Finance
High Performance
Local Sports Partnerships
National Governing Bodies
National Trails Office, and the
Irish Institute of Sport.

Clive

fightireland wrote: »

Nice try Clive but you won't draw me into a discussion on taxes nor is this the place for that.

It's farcical that somebody could the opinion that MMA is not a sport.

Good man.

As I said the ISC don't recognise any sports, that's not their function. They don't recognise soccer, they recognise the FAI. Nobody in the ISC has said that MMA isn't a sport, nor would they.

fightireland

Clive wrote: »

As I said the ISC don't recognise any sports, that's not their function. They don't recognise soccer, they recognise the FAI. Nobody in the ISC has said that MMA isn't a sport, nor would they.

Thanks for clearing that up - the thread has answered what I asked.

Mellor

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I think a sport like BJJ would benefit more from ISC approval.

They provide funding to various martial arts groups, could a BJJ club go that route.

fightireland wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up - the thread has answered what I asked.

Calling it farcical regarding pro-boxing made no sense at all.
Then you repeated that they said MMA isn't a sport, when they didn't say this.
I know you were only looking out for MMA in Ireland, but you were (or are?) making an issue when none existed at all.

If there was a NGB for amateur MMA, I imagine that there amy be a case for association with ISC - just like other martial arts orgs

OLDMAN1

Mellor wrote: »

If there was a NGB for amateur MMA, I imagine that there amy be a case for association with ISC - just like other martial arts orgs

You imagine wrong, the I.A.W.A is already the NGB for amateur MMA (FILAS combat grappling) the ISC would not take on another NGB for the same sport...

cowzerp

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

You imagine wrong, the I.A.W.A is already the NGB for amateur MMA (FILAS combat grappling) the ISC would not take on another NGB for the same sport...

I dont think so!
there nothing to do with MMA or else they are trying to hide it.

OLDMAN1

cowzerp wrote: »

I dont think so!
there nothing to do with MMA or else they are trying to hide it.

Its not that there trying to hide it, its just there is no one in the IAWA that has any real intrest in it, but at the end of the day the IAWA is the rep in Ireland for FILA and all its sports, including combat grappling(ameuter mma) and it is already reconised by the ISC so the ISC will not reconise another NGB..

http://www.fila-wrestling.com/

cowzerp

Im calling BS straight out.

Thats wrestling not MMA, amateur MMA is not combat grappling, they would need to have people get qualified in it if that was the case.

Also i doubt they have duristiction in BJJ also.

Sid_Justice

Had to look up FILA's combat grappling there, never heard of it before.

Looks to be a points based system, C class rules with head gear and shin guards. Actually not sure if you're allowed head shots on the ground.

I'm not sure if I agree with Oldman's statement that IAWA Are the NGB for amateur mma. IAWA are the NGB for Amateur Wrestling styles (freestyle and greco). IAWA refer to FILA as their International Governing Body. But you can't say for every sport and discipline FILA adopt into their governance, this automatically makes the IAWI the NGB. By that rule, if for some bizarre reason FILA adopted kodokan judo into their ranks, that would imply IAWA would become the NGB regardless of NGB already in existence.

Just because FILA have their own self-styled amateur MMA called Combat Grappling that doesn't make FILA a international governing body for amateur MMA nor does it by default make IAWA the accepted NGB. Sure couldn't Combat Sambo and Daigoguku (or what ever its called) make the same claims.

Anyway it a moot point, any body can claim to be a NGB for amateur MMA really and no one can really prove them otherwise. I would however in this case, query who in the IAWA actually is involved in MMA or even combat grappling. MAybe it's just oldman1 speaking out of place, does he have a position in the IAWA

Sid_Justice

Sure everyone knows Mark Leonard is the NGB for amateur mma in ireland

Killme00

OLDMAN,

Are you involved with IAWA, ISC or amateur MMA in any capacity? You appear to be talking twaddle, perhaps you can expand on why or how IAWA is the NGB for amateur mma?

OLDMAN1

First of all i do not speak for the IAWA in any way, im just giveing my opinion, i know how the ISC works, if you dont believe me thats up to you, the only way that i can see to find out if im right is for some one to try it, i believe that i would be proved right, im not trying to rub anyone up the wrong way or anything,
the rules on combat grappling are on the fila site if anybody is intrested and you are allowed to strike on the ground. combat sambo would never claim that the do mma, what they do is combat sambo, fila would also not claim attority over bjj but the do run submission wrestling competitions that were at the last combat games in china that were reconised by the IOC, the next combat games will be in russia in 2013 if your intrested and there will be submission wrestling and combat grappling at it

Mellor

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

First of all i do not speak for the IAWA in any way, im just giveing my opinion, i know how the ISC works, if you dont believe me thats up to you, the only way that i can see to find out if im right is for some one to try it, i believe that i would be proved right, im not trying to rub anyone up the wrong way or anything,
the rules on combat grappling are on the fila site if anybody is intrested and you are allowed to strike on the ground. combat sambo would never claim that the do mma, what they do is combat sambo, fila would also not claim attority over bjj but the do run submission wrestling competitions that were at the last combat games in china that were reconised by the IOC, the next combat games will be in russia in 2013 if your intrested and there will be submission wrestling and combat grappling at it

You stated that IAWA is the NGB for MMA. It isn't. There currently isn't one. This is a plain fact.

They may have a similar sport under their umbrella, but MMA is not the same. For a start, combat grappling must take place on a mat, it's 1 5 minute round, fights are decided by scoring. It is close enough, that it could adapt its rules system to also cover MMA matches, but the reality is they have not done this.

Also, just because Combat grappling is under FILA rules, doesn't means IAWA are the NGB for it in ireland. i can't see it mention anyehere on their site.

You mentioned that they would take two groups for the one (silimar) sports. i believe you are wrong in this. For example, their website has to links to;

Both the Ladies Gaelic association, and the GAA (which also covers ladies football)