St Margarets

FixdePitchmark

Played St. Margarets today and greens very slow and hairy. Is this a sign of the economic downturn, are there less staff on courses, Is this a sign of a course in trouble, to think it was in the top 100 courses in Ireland. Anyway more like a good public course now. What are we going to do with all the courses , What courses have closed at this stage? Anyway it is sad to see the decline of these places.

PARlance

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Played St. Margarets today and greens very slow and hairy. Is this a sign of the economic downturn, are there less staff on courses, Is this a sign of a course in trouble, to think it was in the top 100 courses in Ireland. Anyway more like a good public course now. What are we going to do with all the courses , What courses have closed at this stage? Anyway it is sad to see the decline of these places.

So many questions and so few question marks

Was planning on getting a round in there this weekend, had heard decent reports about it.

FixdePitchmark

ajcurry123 wrote: »

So many questions and so few question marks

Was planning on getting a round in there this weekend, had heard decent reports about it.

Rhetorical my friend, Rhetorical.

Decent but in sad decline, I'm a golf snob, now you can play top stuff for 40 euro.

hurleronditch

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

ajcurry123 wrote: »

So many questions and so few question marks

Was planning on getting a round in there this weekend, had heard decent reports about it.

Rhetorical my friend, Rhetorical.

Decent but in sad decline, I'm a golf snob, now you can play top stuff for 40 euro.

I played there 10 days ago. I'm usually a big fan of the place, it is much maligned in many parts but has never left me down for a cheap casual round and twice on the roster of the society I'm secretary of.

All changed week before last, what was a nice layout, well maintained, with friendly staff, became a messy badly maintained course, which was over crowded with rather unhelpful Staff. Greens were shaggy, slow and covered in pitch marks. Bunkers hadn't been properly raked by staff in about 3 days I'd say. Fairways werent crazy long, but messy, divots everywhere, unreplaced. It was a Thursday, and I can honestly say, if you said the greenkeeper had been off since Sunday I wouldn't have been surprised. To be honest it's sad, and a sign of the times but I won't ever be back at that standard.

FixdePitchmark

hurleronditch wrote: »

I played there 10 days ago. I'm usually a big fan of the place, it is much maligned in many parts but has never left me down for a cheap casual round and twice on the roster of the society I'm secretary of.

All changed week before last, what was a nice layout, well maintained, with friendly staff, became a messy badly maintained course, which was over crowded with rather unhelpful Staff. Greens were shaggy, slow and covered in pitch marks. Bunkers hadn't been properly raked by staff in about 3 days I'd say. Fairways werent crazy long, but messy, divots everywhere, unreplaced. It was a Thursday, and I can honestly say, if you said the greenkeeper had been off since Sunday I wouldn't have been surprised. To be honest it's sad, and a sign of the times but I won't ever be back at that standard.

Thanks, I'm not alone. I think what went on during the Celtic.........bla blah.. anyway , to maintain courses at the level they have been made and size for that matter, is now almost impossible. It is my view that if in the course of your 18 holes you do not see one greenkeeper anywhere on the course, it is gone, it is my rule of thumb. I'd say the greenkeepers have some story to tell about what has gone on (such an unrewarded hard job). I'd say some amount have been let go, also lets face it , the cheaper golf becomes more and more lads come on and not a pitch mark or divot replaced between the four of them, not their fault , education/brief is required to all players at start. The GUI should run a campaign , but I'm not a member. Anyway , soap box over, greens sad and Irish pitchmarks even more sad.

WHIP IT!

I had never played St Marg's "in it's pomp" so to speak, when it was hosting Irish Senior Opens etc... But I've played 7/8 times in the past 9/10 months - usually via tee times or on Open days for €20/25 - and I think it's fine.

I've played it twice in the past three weeks and, as said here, the greens - although in good condition - are unusally slow. It's strange. They seemed fine, didn't seem to have had lots of traffic on them, they were just unneccessarily slow for some reason which was a disappointment as the rest of the course was in fine nick.

TheGrump

I played St Margarets for the first time last week and I really liked the course. However the greens were a disgrace as has been said, very very slow and kind of hairy

I have to give credit where it is due though, the guy in the pro shop was very good. He was very friendly and when he heard we hadn't played before he gave a few pointers and threw in a free stroke saver. I'd say I've played about 7 or 8 courese for the first time this year and never got this level of customer service.

Kevinmarkham

TheGrump wrote: »

I have to give credit where it is due though, the guy in the pro shop was very good. He was very friendly and when he heard we hadn't played before he gave a few pointers and threw in a free stroke saver. I'd say I've played about 7 or 8 courese for the first time this year and never got this level of customer service.

I know there are a number of General Managers, pro shop staff and others who follow the Boards... please take note! In a market where the buyer is now king, customer service makes a massive difference to how golfers view and review a course. It was all looking crap for St. Margaret's until The Grump came along with this little ray of sunshine.

We need more people like that - and David at Macreddin - who put themselves out there to keep us golfing joe soaps happy.

d15ude

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

... until The Grump came along with this little ray of sunshine...

huh?

Kevinmarkham

d15ude wrote: »

huh?

What, I can't use metaphors on here? I didn't read that in the T&Cs

PhilipMarlowe

d15ude wrote: »

huh?

Look up dude... (It's Aer Lingus. Remember that ad?)

Osgoodisgood

This club is not in decline. Quite the opposite. Since the sad demise of Turvey the membership numbers are well up and there is a lot of activity around the club which bodes well for the future and given that there is no debt being carried by the club it is in better financial shape than most.

What is a problem is that the greens, as stated, are in poor condition having not been cored at all this growing season. The general inability of people to repair pitchmarks has also caused some greens to have a very lunar surface look to them. As for the fairways they are in reasonable condition with the exception of the 8th which is looks much less like a fairway and much more like Omaha Beach. Quite why people choose not to replace divots after taking a penalty drop having just drowned another ProV1 is beyond me. But they don't.

golfwallah

Disappointing to hear stuff like: “greens very slow and hairy”; “a messy badly maintained course ..... over crowded with rather unhelpful Staff. Greens were shaggy, slow and covered in pitch marks. Bunkers hadn't been properly raked ......... Fairways ....... messy, divots everywhere, unreplaced”.
“greens were a disgrace”. “greens with a lunar surface”.
All these issues are down to resources and senior management - will take a lot more than the friendly guy in the pro shop to put them right.

WHIP IT!

golfwallah wrote: »

Disappointing to hear stuff like: “greens very slow and hairy”; “a messy badly maintained course ..... over crowded with rather unhelpful Staff. Greens were shaggy, slow and covered in pitch marks. Bunkers hadn't been properly raked ......... Fairways ....... messy, divots everywhere, unreplaced”.
“greens were a disgrace”. “greens with a lunar surface”.
All these issues are down to resources and senior management - will take a lot more than the friendly guy in the pro shop to put them right.

Well, I would consider all the above complaints as exaggerations - my only problem with the place was that the greens were slow. Not in bad condition, as far as I can see, just slow.

I play a lot of different golf courses - via society (almost weekly), tee times and Open events - and I think the general condition of St Marg's is pretty much on a par with most courses of similiar standard. Bearing in mind, I usually also play on a Monday/Tues or Wed (sometimes all three if I'm feeling energetic! ) when courses might have had a lot of traffic over the weekend and might not be maintained as well as they would be for a busy Saturday etc.

Adiaga 2

I haven't played St. Mags for a while but always found it in pretty good condition despite hearing from a lot of people that it was a kip, etc. I'd say standards have slipped a lot since the days it hosted some big events, and that's a pity, but it's not that bad and is good value to play imo. I think it's a great track.

no nails niall

Basically every hacker in north dublin is playing the place, you know the lot that don't have the cop on to put the divots back and rake the bunkers. Although not too many of this lot are good enough to make pitchmarks, when they do hit that glory shot, they don't know to fix the green. Couple that with a few less 'keepers and you got a place in decline.

I played it back in the good old days, never liked it much anyway, staff were snobs (even after taking 60+ per round off you), always very wet.

rafared

I played there yesterday for the first time in 5 or 6 years and thought the course was in decent if not sparkling condition. Have to say there seemed to be a lot of greenkeeping work going on ( several tractors mowing for instance ) although the back 9 greens were a bit fluffy for my liking. The front 9 had been sanded and brushed that morning and were more than playable. The carpark and outside the clubhouse were more shabby with weeds ect but I dont care as long as the course is in good nick. My only real complaint was that some of the bunkers were full of large, and I mean large stones. Overall we enjoyed it and found it reasonable value at 25E.
Forgot to add they give you a card which they stamp every time you play and when you play 5 games the 6th is free which seems like a good way to encourage people to return.

FixdePitchmark

no nails niall wrote: »

Basically every hacker in north dublin is playing the place, you know the lot that don't have the cop on to put the divots back and rake the bunkers. Although not too many of this lot are good enough to make pitchmarks, when they do hit that glory shot, they don't know to fix the green. Couple that with a few less 'keepers and you got a place in decline.

I played it back in the good old days, never liked it much anyway, staff were snobs (even after taking 60+ per round off you), always very wet.

I agree , some of these places around the airport (not st. mags only) were going on as if they were Pebble Beach or Augusta National. They would look down on any of the local hackers, if they even tried to cross the security gate.

I'm just observing it is an extrodinary fall from their ivory towers. I feel sorry for the average joes who bought in and got caught, was like the housing thing in a way.

It is not a bad thing that every hacker is allowed in, as golf was too inaccessible in North Dublin. 6,000, 15,000, euro to join. 50- 60 euro a round, I mean you could only go 3 times on your dole (joke). More people playing golf, more kids playing, more money, more majors to our poor record.

A bit of education and guess what a few jobs for greenkeepers and a ranger, if every hacker is there it can be paid for.

Hard to play poor greens and fairways when the celtic tiger spoiled us all.

johnebhoy99

The biggest problem with most courses these days is that they are stuck for cash and so let people play who are not GUI members anywhere. Generally speaking if you're a GUI member you'll understand golf etiquette which includes fixing your pitch marks and divots not just the courteous and honest side of golf.
Non GUI members (and this is a sweeping statement, not 100% true) generally don't wear the correct attire for golf, don't know when to be quiet when others are playing, don't know how or when to call people through and as can be seen all over Dublin they destroy golf courses through their ignorance (they are not called hackers for nothing) etc. etc. etc.

If GUI affiliated clubs enforced this rule it would make golf more expensive for us but we'd have better quality courses and I would like to think that the proper golfers (not the so called hackers) would migrate to the clubs who catered to their needs and shared their love of the game.

In most countries you're not allowed on certain courses until your union handicap is below a certain level for this very reason. Learn the game, you wouldn't just run on to a rugby or hurling pitch clueless of the rules and the do's and don'ts.

I'm not having a go at St Mgt's - it's my favourite course in the area but I agree the quality of the greens keeping has gone way down in recent years. I'm sure there are many other factors involved here too, not least money.

FixdePitchmark

johnebhoy99 wrote: »

The biggest problem with most courses these days is that they are stuck for cash and so let people play who are not GUI members anywhere. Generally speaking if you're a GUI member you'll understand golf etiquette which includes fixing your pitch marks and divots not just the courteous and honest side of golf.
Non GUI members (and this is a sweeping statement, not 100% true) generally don't wear the correct attire for golf, don't know when to be quiet when others are playing, don't know how or when to call people through and as can be seen all over Dublin they destroy golf courses through their ignorance (they are not called hackers for nothing) etc. etc. etc.

If GUI affiliated clubs enforced this rule it would make golf more expensive for us but we'd have better quality courses and I would like to think that the proper golfers (not the so called hackers) would migrate to the clubs who catered to their needs and shared their love of the game.

In most countries you're not allowed on certain courses until your union handicap is below a certain level for this very reason. Learn the game, you wouldn't just run on to a rugby or hurling pitch clueless of the rules and the do's and don'ts.

I'm not having a go at St Mgt's - it's my favourite course in the area but I agree the quality of the greens keeping has gone way down in recent years. I'm sure there are many other factors involved here too, not least money.

We were all hackers once, GUI handicap can be picked up in public courses these days. I think golf is in a transition from an old boys club to a public game. A bit lost at the mo. how to deal with this. And I've no GUI H/Cap. Don't like the old snobery in clubs.

Davidth88

johnebhoy99 wrote: »

Generally speaking if you're a GUI member you'll understand golf etiquette which includes fixing your pitch marks and divots not just the courteous and honest side of golf.
Non GUI members (and this is a sweeping statement, not 100% true) generally don't wear the correct attire for golf, don't know when to be quiet when others are playing, don't know how or when to call people through and as can be seen all over Dublin they destroy golf courses through their ignorance (they are not called hackers for nothing) etc. etc. etc.

Sweeping statement as you say yourself !!

johnebhoy99

I'm sure I sound elitist in what I said above but I had a chat with a guy in a pub not so long ago and I showed him a pitch mark repairer / fork and he didn't know what it was, he said he'd been playing golf for 2 years!! People do have to learn but do it the right way, when I started I was brought into a room with the Club Pro (in a group) who spent an hour explaining golf etiquette, I was then given a free copy of the rule book and another leaflet with the local club rules and expectations. I was then enrolled in a set of 10 group golf lessons in order to learn the basics of grip, swing etc.
Back to the thread, I think St Margarets greens keepers have a tougher time than most (i.e. clubs who enforce GUI membership as a pre-req of being allowed to play) because of the amount of people they allow on to their course who haven't a notion about golf and have never taken the time to find out and I'd doubt very much that the majority of them are members anywhere. But they only have themselves to blame. I play there regularly and have never been asked for my GUI card when entering the Open comp on a Wednesday or when just paying green fees.

bustercherry

johnebhoy99 wrote: »

I'm sure I sound elitist in what I said above but I had a chat with a guy in a pub not so long ago and I showed him a pitch mark repairer / fork and he didn't know what it was, he said he'd been playing golf for 2 years!! People do have to learn but do it the right way, when I started I was brought into a room with the Club Pro (in a group) who spent an hour explaining golf etiquette, I was then given a free copy of the rule book and another leaflet with the local club rules and expectations. I was then enrolled in a set of 10 group golf lessons in order to learn the basics of grip, swing etc.
Back to the thread, I think St Margarets greens keepers have a tougher time than most (i.e. clubs who enforce GUI membership as a pre-req of being allowed to play) because of the amount of people they allow on to their course who haven't a notion about golf and have never taken the time to find out and I'd doubt very much that the majority of them are members anywhere. But they only have themselves to blame. I play there regularly and have never been asked for my GUI card when entering the Open comp on a Wednesday or when just paying green fees.

Yes another w*nkbox on this forum

In fairness I can't remember the last time I used a pitch mark repair tool, I like most people just use a tee :rolleyes:

FixdePitchmark

johnebhoy99 wrote: »

I'm sure I sound elitist in what I said above but I had a chat with a guy in a pub not so long ago and I showed him a pitch mark repairer / fork and he didn't know what it was, he said he'd been playing golf for 2 years!! People do have to learn but do it the right way, when I started I was brought into a room with the Club Pro (in a group) who spent an hour explaining golf etiquette, I was then given a free copy of the rule book and another leaflet with the local club rules and expectations. I was then enrolled in a set of 10 group golf lessons in order to learn the basics of grip, swing etc.
Back to the thread, I think St Margarets greens keepers have a tougher time than most (i.e. clubs who enforce GUI membership as a pre-req of being allowed to play) because of the amount of people they allow on to their course who haven't a notion about golf and have never taken the time to find out and I'd doubt very much that the majority of them are members anywhere. But they only have themselves to blame. I play there regularly and have never been asked for my GUI card when entering the Open comp on a Wednesday or when just paying green fees.

Valid points, but not in the real world of Dublin golf these days. Back then, places like that, had all the bank lads and builders who destroyed the country, but o my God, there were no jeans.

I agree , there is a gap in knowledge, but what are the clubs or GUI doing ? it is not the fault of the guy in the bar.

keengolfer

I played St. Margaret's twice last week. On Tuesday I was having a sneaky look before my society day on Saturday. I hadn't played the course before but I was very impressed at the quality layout and style of the course. We paid €25 during the week.On Saturday we got golf, grill and a pint for €50 with the society - can't complain really. The condition of the course was good, but the greens were a little slower than other courses ? I got a loyalty card stamped twice and looking forward to getting my free round of golf after 5 visits there - good system.

AldilaMan

bustercherry wrote: »

Yes another w*nkbox on this forum

In fairness I can't remember the last time I used a pitch mark repair tool, I like most people just use a tee :rolleyes:

Maybe you should invest in a proper pitch mark repair tool. They're much more effective than a tee and result in a better repair.

A little off topic:

Most people I see repairing pitch marks push the tool away from the pitch mark causing the root to break resulting in brown patches a few days later. They would be better off leaving the pitch mark than repairing it incorrectly.