Return of two-door Dublin buses?

Cool Mo D

Over the last 2 days I've seen a couple of Dublin buses with front and middle doors, that don't usually have them: the models that look like this, model ALX400.

I saw it on a 2000 reg 16A today, and a 42 yesterday evening. Is this a new thing, with some buses being retrofitted with middle doors, or have they always been there?

goingnowhere

Always been there

LXFlyer

They are the buses that were purchased originally for the Airlink service in 2001 and which have now been cascaded onto normal services.

Run_to_da_hills

And our two door single deckers are all gone. :mad:

joegriffinjnr

and a 42 yesterday evening

Strange considering these buses are based at Summerhill and the 42 is Clontarf operated well the last time I checked it was anyway.

AngryLips

One door good, two doors bad

Davy

AngryLips wrote: »

One door good, two doors bad

Plenty of countries in the EU using 2 door system and seems to work

The_Wrecker

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

And our two door single deckers are all gone. :mad:

A few went straight to the scrapman.

Cookie_Monster

AngryLips wrote: »

One door good, two doors bad

Only in Dublin...

Reduces dwell times and congestion when trying to enter / exit a bus, but of course over here scumbags slip on using the rear doors, pensioners get on using them cos they have a pass and sure don't need to show it to anyone and some stops aren't long enough to line them up properly.

bob50

CIE tried to bring this in about 15 years ago and i think they tried again a few years after that

Where you got on a bus at front door and paid the driver and when you got to your stop you got off at middle door this was tried out for about 6 /8 months some people adhered to this but most still went up to front door to alight. Also when the bus pulled in at a bus stop and the middle door was open for passengers alighting people would get on the bus through the middle door and didnt bother paying the fare

CIE then scrapped the idea of alighting at the middle door

CIE

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Only in Dublin...

Reduces dwell times and congestion when trying to enter / exit a bus, but of course over here scumbags slip on using the rear doors, pensioners get on using them cos they have a pass and sure don't need to show it to anyone and some stops aren't long enough to line them up properly.

And of course, DB just couldn't be bothered buying the type of rear door that passengers push a button to open (or has sensors) and which closes automatically after the last passenger exits.

AngryLips

Two door busses are a waste of space. They reduce the amount of natural light in the lower deck, they reduce capacity and they restrict access for wheelchair users and people with buggies.

dfx-

Two door buses make sense. Unfortunately those AVs are in an awful tired worn-out state, so they're not the best advertisement since there's less rust on the Titanic than the second doorway of most of them.

Run_to_da_hills

Dublin Bus must be one of the only companies in the world using single door commuter double decker buses and certainly the only country in the world that operated just one door on a bendy..

Zoney

AngryLips wrote: »

Two door busses are a waste of space. They reduce the amount of natural light in the lower deck, they reduce capacity and they restrict access for wheelchair users and people with buggies.

I would suggest that strictly speaking if you had cooperative passengers, there is a place for both. For the reasons above, 1 door is often superior, but for any heavily used service obviously those issues are surpassed by the need to minimise the time spent at each stop.

It's like the difference between commuter trains having double doors in the middle of the carriages and regional/intercity having single doors at the ends of carriages.

Cookie_Monster

AngryLips wrote: »

Two door busses are a waste of space.

not really

They reduce the amount of natural light in the lower deck,

not by an appreciable amount I wouldn't say. The doors are still mostly glass and it's hardly a real consideration considering how much glass is around anyway

they reduce capacity

how so exactly, they remove seats but allow much greater standing room around them.

and they restrict access for wheelchair users and people with buggies.

so a tiny proportion of people are slightly restricted by a system that benefits the vast majority by offering greater speed and ease of use, boo hoo, we already waste money buying more expensive low floor buses for this tiny minority anyhoo.

Jawgap

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

And our two door single deckers are all gone. :mad:

When he was a lot younger my son referred to these as the "squishy" buses:)

liger

bob50 wrote: »

CIE tried to bring this in about 15 years ago and i think they tried again a few years after that


CIE then scrapped the idea of alighting at the middle door

Well from what i have heard if DB wants new buses from NTA or DTA or whoever is in charge now they will have to try again.

I think the 145 will be testing this out but first thing that needs to be done is to make all stops compliant with the centre door system. No point in bringing back this system if at half the stops the centre doors are aligned with a road, a safety railing etc.

But i expect it to fail again for the same reasons as already listed here.

dell1211

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how so exactly, they remove seats but allow much greater standing room around them.

surely you wouldnt allow for standing space in front of the door, this area would have to be kept clear to allow people exit the bus in a timely manner

Losty Dublin

The issue of DB sticking with single door buses is somethat that could do with being stickied, it's asked here so often. The main reason why two door buses didn't work is because our city fathers failed to provide the streets of Dublin with bus stops that have a safe path for passengers to both alight and board at the same time. Until this is done citywide and in such a way that bus driving people like Alek or Spareman or Sickcert etc can get in and out of stops on streets broad and narrow to let people off safely via middle doors on all routes, it will not be a runner.

AngryLips

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how so exactly, they remove seats but allow much greater standing room around them

When was the last time you were on a two door bus and a one door bus?? On DB busses there is a versatile and large standing space behind the baggage area (located above the front left-hand wheel), plus the walkway between the staircase that would otherwise have to be kept clear for upstairs passengers alighting via the rear door.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so a tiny proportion of people are slightly restricted by a system that benefits the vast majority by offering greater speed and ease of use, boo hoo, we already waste money buying more expensive low floor buses for this tiny minority anyhoo.

This statement speaks for itself really.

dowlingm

dell1211 wrote: »

surely you wouldnt allow for standing space in front of the door, this area would have to be kept clear to allow people exit the bus in a timely manner

People stand in the doorway area of the Orion VIIs I use in Toronto (40ft single deck), and they squeeze out of the way if someone needs to get off. We manage.

The primary purpose of rear doors is to get people to move back in the bus. The doors here have bars you push on to get off (a green light illuminates when the bus stops to indicate they are unlocked) and they generally spring back fast enough to deter back door scammers - while I'm sure some do anyway most people follow the rules.

dfx-

AngryLips wrote: »

they reduce capacity and they restrict access for wheelchair users and people with buggies.

I was on a 51B last week, a shiny one-doored AX with so much room. There was demand for three buggy spaces and room for just one on the busy Emmet Rd-Social Welfare/Thomas St section. No matter how big the bus, you can't suit every whim.

etchyed

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Dublin Bus must be one of the only companies in the world using single door commuter double decker buses and certainly the only country in the world that operated just one door on a bendy..

Single door double deckers are used all over the UK.

dowlingm

Maybe the answer for buggies is the same as for bikes - front mount racks

Cool Mo D

Single door buses suit routes that have most people board or alight at the terminus, as long dwell times don't make the bus late, or slow the journey.

Cross city buses could badly do with several doors so they can pick up and drop off passengers quickly, without blocking already congested streets, and taking forever to get through the city.

High frequency cross-city routes like the 46a, 145, 4, 16, etc should have multiple doors and be pre-pay only in order to improve the route.
When the current batch of buses are being replaced, it's time to go multiple door for these routes, and cascade the single door buses to the longer distance, less frequent routes.

the groutch

if you want to know why they don't do two doors anymore, take a trip on the Red Luas Line