Advice on BVD vaccination

dalyj24

Hi,
10% of dairy heard are repeating after 50-60 days, thus am wondering does vaccination stop a P.I (Persistently Infected)from shedding?

pakalasa

http://www.animalhealthireland.ie/bvd.php

http://www.animalhealthireland.ie/pdf/BVD_FAQv2.pdf

dalyj24

Hi palaska,
Thanks for the response, I had already seen the information you provided there but it doesn't specifically answer my query; http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts_waddl/dx/BVD.aspx
For anyone else who may be interested in this topic I found the above on the Washington State University which states that vaccination will not stop shedding...

pakalasa

dalyj24 wrote: »

......does vaccination stop a P.I (Persistently Infected)from shedding?

No, I don't think it does. Vaccinating does not 'cure' a PI. If that were the case then you wouldnt have to remove the PI's. That's my understanding anyway.

I think the biggest threat with BVD is to, say a very closed herd that has never been exposed to the disease before. The herd has very low immunity so, say with a Dairy herd with all cows in-calf in the first 3 months, if BVD were introduced then, the effects would be deadly.

On the other hand, an open herd, with a lot of buying and selling, that has been exposed before, the effects may not be as severe. That's the 'catch 22' with it, closed herds need to be vaccinated even more.
So identify PI's, remove them, and then vaccinate then every year to keep it out.
My take on it anyway.

LostCovey

pakalasa wrote: »

dalyj24 wrote: »

......does vaccination stop a P.I (Persistently Infected)from shedding?

No, I don't think it does. Vaccinating does not 'cure' a PI. If that were the case then you wouldnt have to remove the PI's. That's my understanding anyway.

I think the biggest threat with BVD is to, say a very closed herd that has never been exposed to the disease before. The herd has very low immunity so, say with a Dairy herd with all cows in-calf in the first 3 months, if BVD were introduced then, the effects would be deadly.

On the other hand, an open herd, with a lot of buying and selling, that has been exposed before, the effects may not be as severe. That's the 'catch 22' with it, closed herds need to be vaccinated even more.
So identify PI's, remove them, and then vaccinate then every year to keep it out.
My take on it anyway.

A cut out and keep guide in a few paragraphs - great summary of the story with BVD

mattthetrasher

dalyj24 wrote: »

Hi,
10% of dairy heard are repeating after 50-60 days, thus am wondering does vaccination stop a P.I (Persistently Infected)from shedding?

no it wont. have you tested for bvd it could be ibr even if it is bvd you may not have a pi they might have come in contact with a pi or you may have brought in an animal with a transient infection if you still have all this years calves male and female test the calves and whatever cows didnt have a live calf this year if you get no pi calf, you have no pi cow if you do get a pi calf it does not mean the cow is pi she may have had a transient infection during pregnancy resulting in the calf being pi ask your vet but i dont think you can vaccinate until 3 or 4 weeks before mating.also try a bulk tank sample first if you havent already it could save you chasing the wrong disease hope this helps

dalyj24

Hi guys, thanks for your replys. So vaccinating will not cure a PI, but will it stop it from shedding? Vaccines should be arriving in the morning for both BVD and IBR (tested bulk milk samples and found present). Also I agree with Palaska's summation on the virus, which agrees with everything I've read on the subject. Culling and replacing infected animals in a dairy heard is an expensive process.

LostCovey

dalyj24 wrote: »

Hi guys, thanks for your replys. So vaccinating will not cure a PI, but will it stop it from shedding?

No, and nothing else will either. Not even petrol, brillo pads, patent ointments or homoeopathy.

Although you are in the right place for someone to suggest otherwise.

LostCovey

pakalasa

dalyj24 wrote: »

Hi guys, thanks for your replys. So vaccinating will not cure a PI, but will it stop it from shedding? Vaccines should be arriving in the morning for both BVD and IBR (tested bulk milk samples and found present). Also I agree with Palaska's summation on the virus, which agrees with everything I've read on the subject. Culling and replacing infected animals in a dairy heard is an expensive process.

If you have BVD detected in the herd, it may only be a transient infection and there may be no PI's. In which case it's still a big threat and a dangerous time of the year to be getting it.
Even if you do have PI's, there may be only one or two in the herd. It's still worthwile finding the PI's and getting rid of them.
Best to talk it over with your VET!;)

Lizard_Moon

dalyj24 wrote: »

Hi guys, thanks for your replys. So vaccinating will not cure a PI, but will it stop it from shedding? Vaccines should be arriving in the morning for both BVD and IBR (tested bulk milk samples and found present). Culling and replacing infected animals in a dairy heard is an expensive process.

Did you check for BVD virus in your bulk milk sample or was it just antibody?

Removal of the PI is essential but in a large herd the BVD virus can be sustained by normal spread, infection then immunity then immunity waning and new infection, without the presence of a PI animal.

Antibody levels in the bulk milk only indicate if the animals in the herd have been exposed but give no indication if it is a current or historic infection. Vaccinating without culling PIs is not a good idea as no vaccine protects 100% of the animals 100% of the time and you only need immunity to wane in one pregnant cow to risk another PI. Also PI cows always give PI calves who will increase calf disease incidence.

Speak to your vet but I would advise bulk milk virus PCR and a young stock test.

Good luck

minktrapper

I had 4 P.I.s vet looked into their mouths to check for lesions.Shoot them he said and vacinate the herd.Alot of cows did not go in calf.All were 1 to 2 year olds.No thrive in them.Like walking skeletons.All herds should be vacinated .Good insurance policy.

mattthetrasher

just another thought after you get rid of any pi animals and vaccinate it is vital you test all calves born next spring as embroyos now have been exposed to virus would result in a very strong possability of being born pi,calves born the following years should be fine. good luck with it dalyj

pakalasa

I wonder how will a national programme tie in with testing and vaccination that has been done by farmers already.
For example the ear-notch samples by Enfer. There is no record linking the test results to the animal tested, apart from the tag the animal is wearing....and I noticed that one of my calves has lost his enfer tag already. Also how do you proove that your cattle are vaccinated part from the receipt for the purchase of the vaccine.

dalyj24

Well I remember when it was possible to vaccinate for brucellosis, you got permission from your local DVO, then when the national eradication scheme came in the brucellosis vaccine was banned, will probably be the same with BVD, IBR etc. It is important to maintain the gravy chain for the veterinary profession.

Lizard_Moon

dalyj24 wrote: »

Well I remember when it was possible to vaccinate for brucellosis, you got permission from your local DVO, then when the national eradication scheme came in the brucellosis vaccine was banned, will probably be the same with BVD, IBR etc. It is important to maintain the gravy chain for the veterinary profession.

Brucellosis vaccine was banned as interfered with with the blood/milk test- false positives.
Heard it was a horrible vaccine if self injected.

BVD can be controlled by preventing PIs being born (vaccination), removing PIs, testing all purchased stock, increased biosecurity. This all starts at farm level and then region and hopefully then all island of Ireland and we can have proper quarantine for imported cattle.
Vaccination would not be banned for a long time, I can be corrected on this, as there is no test to distinguish vaccinal and disease blood antibodies.
This is not the case in IBR marker vaccines.

Start of mini-rant:
If we work together we can eradicate/control BVD.
Talk of vets and gravy train is rubbish that will prevent this from happening. You seem to think that we have a lot more legislative influence than we have.
Mini-rant over

mattthetrasher

national erad sheme would happen through natinal id tags iwould guess and prob be complte after 5 years

LostCovey

Lizard_Moon wrote: »

Removal of the PI is essential but in a large herd the BVD virus can be sustained by normal spread, infection then immunity then immunity waning and new infection, without the presence of a PI animal.

LizardMoon

What is the basis for this statement?

It goes against all conventional understanding of how BVD works.

I would love to see evidence for this. I do not believe there is any.

LostCovey

Lizard_Moon

LostCovey wrote: »

LizardMoon

What is the basis for this statement?

It goes against all conventional understanding of how BVD works.

I would love to see evidence for this. I do not believe there is any.

LostCovey

I don't have the actual reference to hand but in large dairy herds a BVD infection can be maintained in the herd without the presence of a PI.
My shortened explanation may not have been 100% correct as was typed quickly but my information is correct.
Also herds that have had positive bulk milk BVD virus PCR results may not have a PI presence in the herd.

BVD is a complex disease with more than one type. Eradication is the best way forward.

LostCovey

Lizard_Moon wrote: »

I don't have the actual reference to hand but in large dairy herds a BVD infection can be maintained in the herd without the presence of a PI.

LizardMoon,

This country is apparently about to embark on a BVD eradication scheme based on the simple identification and removal of BVD PIs.

If your claim above is true, then it would have serious implications for such a scheme - in fact it would be doomed.

I have to respectfully suggest there is no basis for your claim, unless you mean that BVD comes across the fence from another animal in another herd. However that could happen to any herd with or without without a PI. Your reference to a 'large dairy herd' suggests that you believe that BVD could continue to circulate within the herd without a PI.

There's no shame in making a mistake, but if there is no basis to this you should just say so.

LostCovey

pakalasa

Hypothetical but, say a national programme was started in the morning. All PI's were identified and slaughtered. How long would it take for the country to become BVD free?

So Lizardmoon, are you saying that BVD can spread without the presence of a PI animal?

Bizzum

LostCovey wrote: »

This country is apparently about to embark on a BVD eradication scheme based on the simple identification and removal of BVD PIs.

Will there be any need to vaccinate in this case?

LostCovey

pakalasa wrote: »

Hypothetical but, say a national programme was started in the morning. All PI's were identified and slaughtered. How long would it take for the country to become BVD free?

So Lizardmoon, are you saying that BVD can spread without the presence of a PI animal?

Re your first question Pakalasa:

Well in theory a year or two - allowing for the fact that the PIs you just took out could have infected pregnant cows and they could be carrying PI foetuses, and by the time you identify THEM, they could have infected a few cows.....etc

I will leave LizardMoon to answer your second question.

LC

LostCovey

Bizzum wrote: »

Will there be any need to vaccinate in this case?

Well not once the country is free, there would be no point eradicating it if you had to keep vaccinating.

In the meantime, the risk is still there so I guess you keep up whatever safeguards you have

LC

Lizard_Moon

pakalasa wrote: »

Hypothetical but, say a national programme was started in the morning. All PI's were identified and slaughtered. How long would it take for the country to become BVD free?

So Lizardmoon, are you saying that BVD can spread without the presence of a PI animal?

PI removal and vaccination will possibly eradicate BVD.

However as BVD is a virus it can spread from animal to animal and via equipment, trailers, the air etc.
It is possible to have active BVD in your herd without a PI animal.

Transient infections of BVD may have no clinical signs or cause any problems, unless the animal is pregnant. That is why vaccination is an essential component as it will prevent reservoirs of infection in large herds.

pakalasa

"• PI animals are the major source for new infections in a herd"

This is from page 10 of the above link to AHI. It does say "major" !!!, so there are other sources.:rolleyes:

LostCovey

pakalasa wrote: »

"• PI animals are the major source for new infections in a herd"

This is from page 10 of the above link to AHI. It does say "major" !!!, so there are other sources.:rolleyes:

Absolutely there are other sources - it can come across a fence from your neighbour's cattle, or home from the mart on your boots from a transiently infected animal.

LizardMoon is suggesting that immunity to BVD transient infection can wane in a few months, and that transient infection can keep BVD going in a large dairy herd with no PIs. I suspect that is new to science, as most BVD control/eradication plans are based on the assumption that immunity to BVD is virtually lifelong, and the removal of PIs stopping within-herd transmission.

Of course it is possible to have active BVD in your herd without a PI animal. For a week. That is not what this discussion started about.

The original statement was "Removal of the PI is essential but in a large herd the BVD virus can be sustained by normal spread, infection then immunity then immunity waning and new infection, without the presence of a PI animal."

I keep asking what is the source of this info, but I am getting nowhere, so I give up.

LC

Lizard_Moon

http://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/132/25/622.abstract

The above states that BVDV was able to circulate without the presence of a PI for 2 1/2 years in a dairy herd.

Please understand I am not rubbishing AHI attempt to eradicate BVDV as I believe it will be fantastic if it works.

I am just saying removing the PI is only part of the solution and vaccination and Biosecurity are essential.

We are not Norway, Switzerland or even Scotland.
Our herd biosecurity is poor on the whole. Fragmented farms, cattle movements all contribute to it's spread.

We need everyone to buy into this eradication or it will not work. Herd, parish, town, county, province and island will all need to gradually become clear and stay clear. This will not be easy, especially as people will have to pay.

The OP queried if vaccination reduces shedding, the answer is no and the PI needs to be removed.

I think this post has been hijacked enough

LM

pakalasa

I was dropping of cattle at the factory recently. There was a lorry driver there with cattle and he had one poor thriving yearling. They asked him what was the story with the small fella. He said that the guy who owned him wanted him gone, as he thought he had BVD.
The lorry driver was telliing me after, that the same farmer had a lot of simmental cows in the factory the week before. Cows that wouldn't go back in calf. He reckoned it was due to the BVD.
Just to warn ya. It's a real disease and it's out there.

LostCovey

pakalasa wrote: »

I was dropping of cattle at the factory recently. There was a lorry driver there with cattle and he had one poor thriving yearling. They asked him what was the story with the small fella. He said that the guy who owned him wanted him gone, as he thought he had BVD.
The lorry driver was telliing me after, that the same farmer had a lot of simmental cows in the factory the week before. Cows that wouldn't go back in calf. He reckoned it was due to the BVD.
Just to warn ya. It's a real disease and it's out there.

In fairness its also a very easy blamehound as they say in the States. And the standard of proof is often not the highest. If it's eradicated we will need to get another one!

LC