dog training.hands on or hands off approach

pokertalk

just wanted to open a discussion on whether or not you use hands on or hands off when training your dog basic/advanced commands.i like to use the hands off method and reward basis training. when i say hands on i mean givng your dog a small slap on the nose or backside.just want to know what works for you and what gets results. also want to know what cool tricks your dog likes to do on command:D

Whispered

Hands off and reward based.

His most unusual trick - if I sing "I like big butts and I cannot lie" he'll stick his ass in the air. Not very practical, but very cute, Problem is, he'll only do it for me, and I wont sing in front of anyone. So I can't show anybody.

john t

What u want ur dog too doo? Call back treats behind u so dog cums past u too get treat..hands off mind in ... u want too be ur dogs owner and boss.... i will get quizzed but if ur in control ur boss...

Whispered

What?

john t

ok dont hit dog, use treats too get dog too return too u but hold treat behind u so dog must cum behind u ...

Whispered

Ah I understand now what you mean. I just had trouble reading the first post. Sorry and thanks.

john t

no sorry r thanks recquired.... but do not understand how first post is not legible???simpler too me, i said wt u wnt dog to do, give treats behind u, mind is eye contact u boss....

The Sweeper

john t, your posts aren't legible because you use txt spk, which is really frustrating to read. If you use the full qwerty keyboard at your disposal and write full sentences, you'll get your point across a lot more quickly.

I use rewards based training. Smacking the dog is pointless. The only downfall of rewards based training is when the dog does something that isn't quite what you wanted, but is still something good - reward or not? It can be difficult when it comes to a longer string of commands.

star-pants

The Sweeper wrote: »

john t, your posts aren't legible because you use txt spk, which is really frustrating to read. If you use the full qwerty keyboard at your disposal and write full sentences, you'll get your point across a lot more quickly.

Thanks Aye john t 'txt spk' isn't allowed on boards because it makes it hard for people to understand and it's horrible to read.

andreac

Aaahhhh text speak, i hate it!!!

Hands off definately, i dont know how hitting, slapping etc your dog will train it or make your dog want to work for you, i know i certainly wouldnt if someone was hitting or slapping me.

tk123

Rewards and postive reinforcement. Hands on for petting him for doing a good job

piperh

Hands off. Reward based training everytime, didn't smack my kids and if i had done i could have explained to them in a language they understood what they had done wrong so why would i smack an animal who wouldn't understand fully.

DBB

To develop this thread further, how about defining hands-on training to include using your hands to move a dog into the desired position?
Say for example, pushing his butt down to teach a sit?
It's not for me, I prefer for the dog to make his own mind up how to get his mitts on the reward, but I'm interested to know how widespread this version of hands-on training is?
John t, I've never heard of training a dog to move behind you on the recall, but interested to find out your take on it!

borderlinemeath

reward based training, not punishment.

Our setter does all basic commands, sit, paw, roll over and agility jumps.

She will roll over for a treat without saying anything, all that's needed is either a hand signal or a raised eyebrow.
If she's asked to "roll for rubs" she stays on her back for a belly rub.

She also knows the difference between "get the ball" and "get the frisbee".

Chris_Heilong

I believe in dominance hands off training, let me explain; for certain behaviors like begging at the table or if he is acting dominant himself jumping up on the chairs, I would never hit my dog or even tap him on the nose, you just need to stand over them and give a firm 'no', even wolf packs will avoid physical contact at all costs and will use body language and growls to let other members know they are over stepping their authority. Now as far as training itself, you should never ever have to use any correction technique, the goal is to get the dog to preform a certain task which can easily be achieved trough repetition and reward. Even a 6 week puppy can be trained to sit, give paw and come so it wouldn't be too difficult to get an adult to do the same. The only hands on approach I approve of is when the dog does something correctly then its ok to give him a big rub and hug.

Just to add; I was watching a training video of a guy teaching a pup to sit, he would push its back side down into a sit position and if the dog broke the position he would tug hard on the lease saying he was correcting the pup, it was horrifying that people think this is training.

ISDW

DBB wrote: »

To develop this thread further, how about defining hands-on training to include using your hands to move a dog into the desired position?
Say for example, pushing his butt down to teach a sit?
It's not for me, I prefer for the dog to make his own mind up how to get his mitts on the reward, but I'm interested to know how widespread this version of hands-on training is?
John t, I've never heard of training a dog to move behind you on the recall, but interested to find out your take on it!

Well, usually I would use a treat over the head, to get them into a sit position, but Vince just doesn't get that at all. He stands looking at the treat, then looking at me, then back at the treat, as it goes over his head, he just looks at me. I do wonder if he has brain damage:) So with him, I have taken his collar and pushed his bum down gently. Although he still doesn't really get it. But, I still love him.

Zapperzy

Hands off. Only thing I use my hands for is holding treats and using hand signals.

Even for example when teaching sit I won't push their ass to the ground, they learn much much faster if they figure things out for themselves. If you push their ass to ground and say sit and treat them, what do they learn? Human puts hand on back and pushes them down and I get treat. Much better for them to figure it out for themselves. And if they really can't understand what your asking then I think you need to look at how your asking and look at your lures and be a bit more imaginative.

ISDW

Zapperzy wrote: »

Hands off. Only thing I use my hands for is holding treats and using hand signals.

Even for example when teaching sit I won't push their ass to the ground, they learn much much faster if they figure things out for themselves. If you push their ass to ground and say sit and treat them, what do they learn? Human puts hand on back and pushes them down and I get treat. Much better for them to figure it out for themselves. And if they really can't understand what your asking then I think you need to look at how your asking and look at your lures and be a bit more imaginative.

Sorry, don't know if that bits in response to my post? Vince is a special boy, had a difficult puppyhood and I do wonder about his brain development. I have used all sorts of very tasty treats, including garlic liver cake, which he loves. But, he just doesn't get it. Concentration unfortunately is not one of his strong points, when he's working he will run along brilliantly, until he sees a distraction, then everything else is just forgotten. But thats part of what makes him such a special dog:D

Zapperzy

ISDW wrote: »

Sorry, don't know if that bits in response to my post? Vince is a special boy, had a difficult puppyhood and I do wonder about his brain development. I have used all sorts of very tasty treats, including garlic liver cake, which he loves. But, he just doesn't get it. Concentration unfortunately is not one of his strong points, when he's working he will run along brilliantly, until he sees a distraction, then everything else is just forgotten. But thats part of what makes him such a special dog:D

Nope sorry hadn't even seen your post until I posted mine.

Hmm maybe he is just a little special! Even liver cake doesn't work! :eek: Mine would probably learn algebra just for a piece of liver cake! Have you tried using a clicker?

trio

I don't think you should normally have to push a dogs bum down to get him to sit.

Not that I'm against it if it's done gently or anything, I just assume that most dogs will get tired and sit down eventually!

Our dog was slow to train to sit. I had the treat in my hand and he just stared at me. It must've taken about 15 minutes before he sat down! Bless him, he tried every other damn thing on earth to get that treat - everything but sit down! So I was standing there in front of him holding the treat for quarter of an hour. :eek:

And the second time it still didn't compute and it took several minutes before he sat down and got the treat. It took a lot of patience. But once they get it - they get it!

pokertalk

oh and if anyone has their dog doing tricks recorded please put them up:D

andreac

pokertalk wrote: »

oh and if anyone has their dog doing tricks recorded please put them up:D

I should really video my fella doing his "Speak" trick, hes great at it:D

Discodog

The only problem with rewards is when you have three dogs with you & want to reward the youngster for a good recall & the other two rush over for a treat as well. I have to refill my little treat box every day !

Daniel S

I used the "hands on" approach, which really was just the tips of my fingers. To teach my dog to sit, I put my index finger under her chin and lightly pushed her head up and said sit. She learned this very quickly. To teach her to rollover, I got her to lay down, and tipped her head sideways, again with the tips of my fingers. Treats after ofc

piperh

Discodog wrote: »

The only problem with rewards is when you have three dogs with you & want to reward the youngster for a good recall & the other two rush over for a treat as well. I have to refill my little treat box every day !

Lol i know that feeling well. Clyde also thinks that everytime he sits if he gives you his paw he gets a treat which is very cute until he insists on doing it at every road we stop at :rolleyes:

ISDW

My favourite trick at the moment is my gangsta dog, Tala. When you say 'sup to her, she throws her head back. I noticed her doing that when we talked to her, so just put the two together, and she does it most times now, not quite all the time, but then what gangsta's going to behave all the time?;)

Honey-ec

ISDW wrote: »

Well, usually I would use a treat over the head, to get them into a sit position, but Vince just doesn't get that at all. He stands looking at the treat, then looking at me, then back at the treat, as it goes over his head, he just looks at me. I do wonder if he has brain damage:)

I have one of those. I'm convinced he was dropped on his head as a puppy. Have you ever read the blog Hyperbole and a Half? You'll no doubt sympathise with her "Simple Dog" issues...

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/07/dog.html

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/11/dogs-dont-understand-basic-concepts.html

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/04/wild-animal-simple-dog-goes-for-joy.html

Zapperzy

piperh wrote: »

Lol i know that feeling well. Clyde also thinks that everytime he sits if he gives you his paw he gets a treat which is very cute until he insists on doing it at every road we stop at :rolleyes:

Haha I knew a dog like that once. Mine just after I taught him roll over used to roll over for everything, if you opened the fridge or cupboard he'd roll over or if you were eating something nice he'd roll over, at least now he just rolls over for tummy rubs (and grabs your foot with both his paws and pulls it towards his tummy just so we get the hint ).

Other than that he doesn't do anything too exciting, just the usual sit, down, roll over, paw and stand up on his rear legs. Or if were playing tug I can make him let go at the very height of the action and sit nice and quiet until I tell him he can join in again.

I have a cat that meows on command and walks on a lead though! And if you tell her to go to bed she chirps at you and runs to her room!

Chris_Heilong

Here you go, this is my Malamute Titan at I think 6 months doing a few tricks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKW8RKDQuv0&feature=channel_video_title

pokertalk

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Here you go, this is my Malamute Titan at I think 6 months doing a few tricks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKW8RKDQuv0&feature=channel_video_title

lovely dog

tk123

He does it if you say bang or if you make pew pew sounds and make a gun with your fingers.:pac: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnk0DDfjauk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnk0DDfjauk

PS he did the holding the paw out himself when I taught it to him lol "save me!"

borderlinemeath

This is Coco firstly "asking" for food:D and second one is rolling for treats. <iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CSgfsWazHl8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ElOqxrjz8go" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm hopeless at uploading these things so hopefully these links work!