Opps - we may have laws that might not be legal!

Biggins

TWO MAYO PUBLICANS may have exposed a gaping hole in the Irish justice system, after escaping prosecution for keeping their pubs open after hours – because the appropriate laws don’t exist in Irish.

http://www.thejournal.ie/could-two-mayo-publicans-have-exposed-a-gaping-hole-in-irelands-legal-system-184394-Jul2011/

Apparently the laws had not been translated into Irish, which under the Constitution is the official language of Ireland.
They were just submitted and entered into law as English!

Among the laws yet to be translated, according to the Acts published on the Oireachtas website, are:

• The Finance and Social Welfare Acts giving legal effect to every Budget for the years 2000 through 2004
• A series of amendments to Irish electoral law
• The law which changed references in other laws from Punts to Euro
• The law creating the position of Ombudsman for Children
• The law creating the National Pension Reserve Fund
• Laws allowing for the establishment of Commissions of Investigation
• Laws allowing for compensation for people accidentally infected by Hepatitis C
• Criminal Justice Acts relating to EU-wide investigations and to insanity, and a 2002 law on domestic violence
• An update to citizenship law dating from 2004
• The Equality Act of 2004

...The High Court found in 2008 that the State was not required to provide documents in criminal cases in both languages – but in other cases, courts could find that laws may not be applicable because an Irish language translation has yet to be produced. This could be particularly problematic if the court proceedings were to be brought as Gaeilge.

Anyone see a storm of crap possibly coming, if any one solicitor and/or convicted person decides to use any further possible loopholes now to their advantage!

phasers

The laws listed there don't really leave themselves open to shenanigans.

"I was given Hepatitis C and illegally compensated! Better give it back!"

Mr. Denton

So unless a law has been properly translated into both languages then it's open season?

go h-an mhaith!

amacachi

Biggins wrote: »

Anyone see a storm of crap possibly coming, if any one solicitor and/or convicted person decides to use any further possible loopholes now to their advantage!

As usual, and stupidly, it depends on what mood certain judges are in when the cases are brought up in front of them.

It would also be extremely retarded if by the time such cases could make it to court that they hadn't all been translated.

Biggins

phasers wrote: »

The laws listed there don't really leave themselves open to shenanigans.

"I was given Hepatitis C and illegally compensated! Better give it back!"

Dunno. Suppose someone was convicted of breaking The Equality Act of 2004 in court. Now they discover their conviction might not be legal or they could find a way to get it over turned?
If the possibility even exists that there might a a loophole, you know some enterprising solicitor will jump at the chance!

Mena

phasers wrote: »

The laws listed there don't really leave themselves

no update to citizenship law (assuming this was the change due to the referendum) + recent Zambrano ruling by the ECJ could prove interesting methinks.

looky loo

Following that logic would it be conceivable if I was stopped for a traffic violation by a garda and I spoke fluent Irish and he didnt...would I be on my merry way?.....:rolleyes:

Mike 1972

What about legislation dating from before 1922 ?

Cathaoirleach

Waiting for the usual brigade to pipe in.

If you don't want shít like this happening, then protest and campaign to have the Irish language removed completely from the consitution and legislation. Otherwise, vent your anti-Irish sentiment on the Internet forum below if it makes you feel better. :P

galwayrush

Excellent, so despite the fact that i can't speak or understand the language, can i get back the money i paid to the revenue after they brought me to court. ( I needed the money for a far more important medical issue.)

mconigol

What about all the budgets? All the tax increases etc...legal then?

galwayrush

mconigol wrote: »

What about all the budgets? All the tax increases etc...legal then?

Níl.

Mike 1972

Cathaoirleach wrote: »

If you don't want shít like this happening, then protest and campaign to have the Irish language removed completely from the consitution and legislation.

Thats hardly necessary (allthough quite frankly.......) we could simply revert to the legal situation which existed prior to the (ill thought out and dangerous) Official languages act or even change the constitution to restore the language equality which existed between 1922 and 1938.

Run_to_da_hills

What about laws for covering psychoactive substances and head shops?

If this was not translated into our native tongue head shops would be open again in the morning LOL.

galwayrush

So, in a way, everything bad that happened in this country over the past few years was in a way, just a bad dream?

mconigol

Amendments to electoral law? Don't know what they are but possible challenges to election results?

So, while the other shower were busy ruining the country they weren't even properly making up the laws either!

Biggins

mconigol wrote: »

Amendments to electoral law? Don't know what they are but possible challenges to election results?

So, while the other shower were busy ruining the country they weren't even properly making up the laws either!

Now thats a good question.

Laisurg

Well that's no good, can't have any fun with the stuff listed there!

Mike 1972

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

What about laws for covering psychoactive substances.

Are there even Irish words for half that stuff ?

Son Of A Vidic

Biggins wrote: »

you know some enterprising solicitor will jump at the chance!

And we certainly have no shortage of 'enterprising' solicitors in this country.

TheZohanS

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Are there even Irish words for half that stuff ?

"Agus rudaì mar sin"

Run_to_da_hills

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Are there even Irish words for half that stuff ?

Rudai Amadan

Biggins

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

And we certainly have no shortage of 'enterprising' solicitors in this country.

Yep.

Mike 1972

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Rudai Amadan

No government is going to outlaw Rudai Amadan for obvious reasons.

FGR

By any chance did they neglect to translate our bank guarantee into irish? :pac:

Cathaoirleach

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Are there even Irish words for half that stuff ?

Of course there are. Why wouldn't there be?

Terms that come to mind:

substaintí sícighníomhach - psychoactive drugs
siopaí siabhráin - headshops
meifeadrón
eifidrín
etc..

ilovesleep

ForegoneReality wrote: »

By any chance did they neglect to translate our bank guarantee into irish? :pac:

It will be too late anyways. We're already sold to the banks.

mikemac

Biggins wrote: »

Apparently the laws had not been translated into Irish, which under the Constitution is the official language of Ireland.

Lazy and sloppy from the Department, they've been dealing with legislation for decades and should know what to do

Will some senior officer get fired over this? Stop laughing

Looking at the dates, well I don't expect much from John O'Donoghue but Michael McDowell, one of the top barristers in the country and enthuastic about the Irish language too. Surprised at him

Forest Master

Opps indeed, OP. Opps indeed.

merden

lol effin priceless 14 years in government and they couldnt even do their basic job and get the laws made legal.. Is it any wonder we're in the situation we're in

mikom

Biggins wrote: »

Apparently the laws had not been translated into Irish, which under the Constitution is the official language of Ireland.
They were just submitted and entered into law as English!

Among the laws yet to be translated, according to the Acts published on the Oireachtas website, are:

• An update to citizenship law dating from 2004

Pamela Isbecki likes this.

up for anything

phasers wrote: »

The laws listed there don't really leave themselves open to shenanigans.

"I was given Hepatitis C and illegally compensated! Better give it back!"

If I were you I'd hang onto the payout and give back the Hep C.

Mena

mikom wrote: »

Pamela Isbecki likes this.

Why? Makes no difference to her at all.

Richard Hillman

Boozers better cop onto this and stay open for as long as they want. The current "laws" are disgraceful.

Naikon

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Boozers better cop onto this and stay open for as long as they want. The current "laws" are disgraceful.

No doubt it will take another 14 years to update the legislation! Seriously though, how hard can it be to rewrite these documents when given such a long timeframe? The mind boggles.

mikom

Mena wrote: »

Why? Makes no difference to her at all.

Joke.
The I's don't always have to be dotted, nor the T's crossed for them to be made.

Biggins

Naikon wrote: »

No doubt it will take another 14 years to update the legislation! Seriously though, how hard can it be to rewrite these documents when given such a long timeframe? The mind boggles.

Dunno myself - run it though Google translate, proofread it a few times by paid college trained professors and your done?
(In reality - yea... its never as simple as that. More legal heads would have to check it and re-check it!)

It shouldn't really be taking this long!

PseudoFamous

So one could arguably insist on a trial in Irish, and if the law the person had been charged with had not been partially or fully outlined in Irish, they would get away scot free?

goose2005

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdTgKarqTQ0

Dionysus

Time to scrap English/Common law and bring back the Brehon Laws....

Naikon

PseudoFamous wrote: »

So one could arguably insist on a trial in Irish, and if the law the person had been charged with had not been partially or fully outlined in Irish, they would get away scot free?

At least in theory, yeah.

orourkeda

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WO255gw3qk

Dionysus

orourkeda wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WO255gw3qk

Well, you've never posted that line before, orourkeda....

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Biggins

As expected - now more are challenging the law: http://www.thejournal.ie/pub-could-escape-prosecution-over-lock-ins-as-laws-arent-in-irish-189097-Jul2011/

A DONEGAL PUB is challenging its prosecution for alleged after-hours drinking – because the relevant laws have not been translated into Irish.

If its challenge is successful, Ardara’s Central Bar would become the third pub to use the loophole. Two pubs in Claremorris, Co Mayo, saw late-opening charges against them dismissed last week after using the same defence.

The Irish News (print edition) reports that solicitors for the Central Bar – run by former Donegal GAA captain Anthony Molloy – have argued that the case is invalid because the legislation only exists in English. If Mr Molloy wanted to have the case heard in Irish it would not be possible, Glenties District Court heard.

Under the Constitution, Irish is the official language of the Republic. During the Mayo case, the OPW confirmed that the Intoxicating Liquor Acts of 2000, 2003 and 2004 have not yet been translated. And they are not alone – among the other laws still untranslated are the law creating the National Pension Reserve Fund, the Equality Act of 2004, and laws enacting every Budget from 2000 until 2004

Morag

Fúcking fine fail, couldn't even get the basics right.