IoffL post on the Rural Broadband Scheme

bealtine

http://irelandoffline.org/2011/07/ireland%E2%80%99s-best-kept-secret/

Ireland’s best kept secret

The Rural broadband Scheme was sneaked out in a Press Release and an announcement on the Department’s website on the 9th of May. We have to wonder at the absurdity of this step…surely the people without broadband will not be able to read the website in the first place as the scheme is supposedly designed to deliver a basic broadband service to those people. As it stands now they do not have broadband and therefore cannot access the website. Sir Humphrey (Yes Minister) himself would be proud of the administrative elegance displayed by the announcement.

The Department has been accepting applications from 9 May 2011 and will continue to do so until Friday 29 July 2011. Those with dialup will have to struggle through their graphics heavy website to make an application for the service. There seems to be no other way to apply for the service except through the website.

There will be a number of phases in the Scheme.
The first phase involves inviting and processing applications from potential end customers. The second Phase of the Scheme is supposed be completed by January 2012 by that stage most applicants will be offered an existing services and services under the scheme.

Users that are expecting a decent broadband service from this scheme will be sorely disappointed to find out this scheme is yet another stopgap measure and an excuse to rollout inferior and mostly useless satellite service to areas that currently cannot receive any form of service. Some, as we know, are within 10 miles of cities like Dublin Galway and Limerick

A scheme that delivers before it’s tendered
This is a scheme, although not even out to tender yet, is currently delivering according to the Minister in written statements and speeches. Again more absurdity. How can something be delivering broadband BEFORE people have a chance to apply and most especially where it is generally delivered by third world satellite technology located some 30,000 kilometers away from the Ministers office.

thebman

I'm confused, wasn't this part of the NBS and 3 were supposed to do this via Satellite in areas not covered by their Mobile Phone network?

Or is this scheme an admission by the Department of Communications that they failed to deliver what was promised with the NBS?

I'd blame the Minister but we had Noel Dempsey (who I didn't believe was as clueless as he acted but was spineless), we had Eamon Ryan (who I know, knew his stuff bu acted like a clueless idiot and was spineless) and now we have Pat Rabbitte (who again I know is not clueless on these issues but is obviously unwilling to show leadership and run his department too) so realistically, it can only be the department itself and more directly the staff within it who are failing in their duties.

gazzer

Funnily enough on the day the Rural Broadband Scheme was launched I saw it advertised in the Info, on Six One News, on the TV3 news, I also heard it advertised on local radio. Since then I have seen it advertised in the local paper, the Farmers Journal and even saw a pile of application forms for it in the local shop

clohamon

gazzer wrote: »

Funnily enough on the day the Rural Broadband Scheme was launched I saw it advertised in the Info, on Six One News, on the TV3 news, I also heard it advertised on local radio. Since then I have seen it advertised in the local paper, the Farmers Journal and even saw a pile of application forms for it in the local shop

Was that advertising or news stories/editorial on foot of the press release?

The update doesn't read like there was much advertising done.

“I am conscious of the importance of the role played by the Regional and Local Authorities and their staff in raising public awareness of the Scheme, as well as the input and assistance of bodies like Irish Rural Link and the Irish Local Development Network. The key aim here is a cooperative effort at central and local government in conjunction with representative bodies and agencies to achieve the best outcome for rural communities.”

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/Rural+Broadband+Scheme+Progress+Update.htm

bealtine

gazzer wrote: »

Funnily enough on the day the Rural Broadband Scheme was launched I saw it advertised in the Info, on Six One News, on the TV3 news, I also heard it advertised on local radio. Since then I have seen it advertised in the local paper, the Farmers Journal and even saw a pile of application forms for it in the local shop

Are you sure the advertising wasn't for the National Broadband Scheme?
I've seen lots for that scheme but nothing for the RBS...

watty

gazzer wrote: »

Funnily enough on the day the Rural Broadband Scheme was launched I saw it advertised in the Info, on Six One News, on the TV3 news, I also heard it advertised on local radio. Since then I have seen it advertised in the local paper, the Farmers Journal and even saw a pile of application forms for it in the local shop

When?

The NBS was even on bill boards. We are not talking about NBS but RBS. Quite unrelated.

http://www.wattystuff.net/issues/mobile-and-nbs/ Published on Oct 26, 2009


The RBS was going to be almost entirely Satellite. But the Dept is in talks with resellers because it turns out the capacity for the envisaged quantity of users of RBS and "broadband" style packages is about x10 more than the Satellite capacity that actually exists for Ireland. Of course they could make the contention 1000:1 and that would "solve" it.

gazzer

watty wrote: »

When?

The NBS was even on bill boards. We are not talking about NBS but RBS. Quite unrelated.

http://www.wattystuff.net/issues/mobile-and-nbs/ Published on Oct 26, 2009


The RBS was going to be almost entirely Satellite. But the Dept is in talks with resellers because it turns out the capacity for the envisaged quantity of users of RBS and "broadband" style packages is about x10 more than the Satellite capacity that actually exists for Ireland. Of course they could make the contention 1000:1 and that would "solve" it.

Im definately talking about the RBS. It was May 9th as I remember that day because I was travelling to Dublin by bus from Cavan and I bought the paper to read and I was reading about the RBS in it. Later that day I heard it on the radio and that night I saw it on both RTE and TV3 news. I also heard it the next day on local radio.

The forms to apply for it by post are still in a couple of local shops as well. A couple of people in work mentioned that it was in last weeks Farmers Journal.

clohamon

Its not enough just to issue a press release and hope the media do all the work. If they were serious they would have sent out a SAE mailshot using the An Post or ESB location data. Next best - send out a leaflet.

OnWave (the Tooway satellite supplier) sent a leaflet through the post yesterday. Now I know about their service. So maybe DCENR could phone them and ask for advice about how to send out a leaflet.

clohamon

All links to applications for this scheme have been removed from the Department's website on time. Is this a first?

Calls for leniency or an extension of the deadline seem to have been ignored.

http://www.irishrurallink.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=445&Itemid=1

Irish Rural Link – the national network representing the interest of rural communities – has called on Minister Pat Rabbitte to show flexibility and leniency with the Friday 29th deadline to register with the Dept of Communication Energy and Natural resources for the Rural Broadband Scheme.

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2011/07/27/rural-broadband-scheme-not-properly-advertised-says-td/

“The job of processing the applications already submitted can continue. But given that the scheme was not adequately publicised, and extension to the deadline might encourage more people to apply.”

clohamon

http://www.offalyindependent.ie/news/roundup/articles/2011/08/05/4005948-httpwwwoffalyieengserviceslibrariesdocumentsartistsimpressiontullamorelibraryphotomontagejpg/

Better late than never for broadband in Offaly

Over ten percent of applications to a Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources scheme that will give all Offaly residents access to broadband by the end of 2012 were submitted on the final day, the Offaly Independent has learned.
Applications were invited as part of the Rural Broadband Scheme for people countrywide with no broadband access from May 9 until last Friday. The Thursday evening prior to the scheme's closing date for applications Offaly applications stood at 273. Within 24 hours that had shot up to 304 however.
According to the Department press office total applications, which may contain duplicates they warned, stands at just under 5,000 countrywide.
Yesterday Deputy Barry Cowen, who has in the past months urged Offaly residents who cannot get broadband to apply to the scheme, said he will be interested to find out what parts of the country applications mainly came from. "I have had representations mainly from the west and south of the county," he said. "The major gap seems to be in those parts. While others have a lack of service, that area has no service."
Department officials are currently processing applications, with acknowledgement letters expected to go out to applicants in the coming weeks.
Exact house locations will be confirmed to assess whether or not current service providers can serve applicants, a process which will continue over the next three to four months.
Any applicants left without internet access at that stage will enter the next phase of the scheme, which is expected to be rolled out early next year. Full internet access for all applicants is planned for the end of 2012 latest.

watty

that will give all Offaly residents access to broadband by the end of 2012

Except the scheme will not do that.

5000 applications received.

Satellite can maybe manage another 1,000 Irish users at nearly sane contention in addition to existing customer base. Obviously they will exhaust other possibilities before the expensive Satellite route.

clohamon

watty wrote: »

Satellite can maybe manage another 1,000 Irish users at nearly sane contention in addition to existing customer base. Obviously they will exhaust other possibilities before the expensive Satellite route.

Yes but there are some questions for satellite providers.

Are satellite providers included in phase II of the scheme? i.e. are they going to be given the list of applicants by the department? There's no reason why they wouldn't.

If so, and you were a satellite provider, would you approach applicants with a keenly priced installation now or wait until phase III and hope that you got the whole contract.....or none of it?

I think a 'good' offer now would be a free install and a guarantee to meet the charges and T&Cs of Phase III of the scheme, when it comes.

Of course, if they all did that there'd be no phase III worth talking about and the department would be completely off the hook…..

……and the scheme would end up costing nothing at all.

watty

The Satellite operators will be expecting the Dept to subsidize the Install as the labour is expensive and the gear is very expensive.

Look at sort of install prices with 2 year min contracts to get an idea. The Satellite operators are already discounting installs to try and compete.

Who or what is Phase I going to be? Very little or the people would have BB or Mobile already. If you can get Mobile your not eligible. The NBS is only Mobile after all.

So next 4 months is trying to avoid satellite, and unless there is a miracle maybe less than 1/4 will get sorted on that.

Then what? In absence of any other scheme, it's extend the NBS satellite provision. Well if they add 2,000 to 3,000 more terminals that's all the capacity at "sensible" contention more than gone.

Install for 2,000 subsidized sat terminals will cost the Dept €600,000 only (No operator is going to reduce install cost further). Then there is question of do these 2,000 users get proper cap and subsidy of monthly cost? Because a Sat package that's comparable data cap to Broadband is €60 to €100 per month.

If they need 4,000 Terminals then someone will stick fingers in ears and go "la la la" if the question is asked about real capacity and contention.

Sure you can add 4,000. As long as you have pitiful cap and don't care about peak time congestion of 10Mbps package dropping to 1Mbps or less.

clohamon

I accept what you are saying about contention and capacity on satellite, and the limits, and the threat to existing satellite customers etc. And I accept that satellite providers are already discounting their installation costs.

but..

Phase II

As I understand it, Phase II doesn't subsidise anything. Its just a clearing house for enquiries vs providers' capacity to deliver on any platform - and that includes satellite. And I don't believe there's any requirement for satellite providers to wait until the Mobile/FWA/DSL providers have tried first.

So the satellite provider is faced with the uncertainty of Phase III, of possibly getting all of it, some of it, or none of it ………(and all or most of his future customers going to a competitor). So what does he do?

I suspect that Satellite providers will do whatever they can to snatch up customers in phase II before maybe losing them all in phase III.

Phase III

AFAIK the means of allocating this is not known yet. It could be a voucher scheme which would remove some of the uncertainty if it were open to all satellite providers, but given that money is tight, and that the department is completely unscrupulous about quality, and that voucher systems are open to abuse, it could be a reverse auction - "winner takes all" - and therefore the pressure on satellite providers to grab customers during phase II would be that much greater.


Equally, If I was a customer, and had no other options, I would be interested in satellite now rather than satellite sometime between now and 2013. AFAIK the scheme does not subsidise the monthly cost*, so it all comes down to the up-front price of installation. The charges and T&Cs of the scheme are unknown and may be variable, so all the provider has to do now is guarantee to at least match them on a like for like basis when they emerge.


*

The full details of how this competition will be designed and run are not yet finalised. However, I can confirm that the scheme is designed to subsidise the initial capital cost of providing the actual physical broadband connection and, that under the rules applying to the EU funding for the scheme, we are precluded from subsidising monthly tariffs for the service provided.

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2011-05-17.1227.0&s="Telecommunications+Services."

watty

So what is the money for, what's the point at all of RBS if effectively they are doing nothing for two years?

Why is Dept talking to Sat suppliers today?

The need for Internet or Broadband hasn't suddenly materialised. The NBS proposal was long ago now and the GBS long before that.

Is this just another scheme to make it look as if something is being done by Government? In reality no Government has done anything of note to help Broadband since killing the GBS.

The Satellite Suppliers will absolutely do nothing more than they are doing without subsidy. It's fantasy to believe otherwise. Also if someone should be thinking of Satellite today, then the NBS is a failure and the RBS pointless.

clohamon

AFAIK unused money goes back to the Department of Agriculture Fisheries and Food. If there were 5000 @ €400/installation thats €2M. So there will be about €16M unspent - 'could be more.

A subsidy of charges was implicit in the original EU decision of 2009 (page 4 - f & g). I don't know what happened in the meantime to change that.

The decision also specified latency low enough to support VPN and VOIP.

watty

Satellite apart from the latency issue generally, only supports VPN if you are using a VPN client at the Earth Station and a custom "channel" on your Satellite link. This is because the ARP cache, DNS cache, TCP/IP spoofing and HTTP accelerator all fail as the modem link can't "see" what is in a regular VPN tunnel. This makes VPN unusable.

For corporate customers the service providers set up the VPN client on a virtual PC at the Earth Station and then run "regular" connection over the satellite. Normally they won't support ANY VPN software, but just one specific package. Sometimes only one predefined server too.