Opinions please, dogs off lead, who is in the right?

discosue

Hi there,

Looking for what other dog owners out there think.

I was out walking my Jack Russell on the lead as always last week when a Boxer off the lead came bounding down the lane at him, a large dog coming at him means my dog will get defensive it's happened many times with dogs off the lead running at him, he didn't want him running at him, the boxer seemed a bit young I think he wanted to play really, got the message and went back to his owner up the lane

I was waiting at the end of the lane as I thought that the owner was putting a lead on him, he wasn't all he was doing was petting the dog, I shouted up and and asked if he could put a lead on him as I wanted to walk up the lane and pass them, he answered back in a smart kind of voice "no" I asked why and he said he had none for him, he told me to pass the dog would be fine.

Started to walk up the lane and with that his 2nd boxer off the lead came jumping over the wall from the field into the lane, this was an older one and I seriously thought he was going to eat my little one, he ran right at my Jack up in his face and being aggressive and snarling, this guy had no lead for either dog and the dog wasn't coming back to him, because mine was being defensive when I gave out to him and said if he couldn't call it off it should be on a lead he replied to me that my little jack russell should have a mussel.

Who is in the wrong here and what can I do as? I don't see why I should have to avoid my local field in case it's off and comes running at him aggressive again. I think I'm right and he should have them on a lead, I've seen many dogs in our field off the lead and once they can be called back I have no problem with them but this guy didn't even seem to care. Any fellow dog owners have any opinions appreciated?

Susan

TooManyDogs

The law says that dogs should be 'under control' at all times but doesn't specify on a lead. The fact that the man's boxers didn't come back when he called means they weren't under control so you could report him to the local dog warden

star-pants

That bugs the crap out of me.

I don't mind dogs off lead, once they're a) under full control of the owner and b) not going to be pushy with my dogs

I keep mine on a lead and I expect the respect of other dog owners to keep their dogs from mine especially should I ask them to.

That chap was in the wrong, as TooManyDogs said, dogs should be under your control at all times, that boxer was not, and it was bothering yours.

Blueprint

You were definitely in the right, you shouldn't have to muzzle your dog if you have him on a lead and keep him away from other dogs.

My guy once ran up to another dog and got bitten in the face for his trouble when he was in his rebellious teenage stage (my guy saw the other dog before I did and went deaf) and I blamed no one but myself. Mind you, it taught him a valuable lesson and he never did it again!

easyeason3

I don't mind dogs off the lead once they are behaved. But the thing is I don't ever let my guy off lead around other dogs because even though he is completely submissive I would be afraid his idea of play would annoy the other dog causing them to snap.
He's ok with his own friends because they are used to him & jump & run along with him. He is lively to say the least but not all dogs want that kind of play & I wouldn't want to put him in danger of getting a bite nor do I want another dog to be fearful or annoyed enough to want to bite.

By the way, did the man you met give any thought to the fact that if he was walking them along a road & you were at the far side that his dogs could run across without warning & get hit by a car?

I see a lot of this when I'm out walking, dogs off the lead or without a secure garden just lunge out when they see another four legged stranger that they just have to sniff. Thankfully I haven't actually witnessed any dog getting hit (my worst nightmare) but it came close once or twice.

tk123

The guy wasn't in control of his dogs so he's at fault there. However one part of your post stands out to me *apologies for potentially opening a can of worms here*

discosue wrote: »

a large dog coming at him means my dog will get defensive it's happened many times with dogs off the lead running at him

I could be way off here - maybe its the wording of you post ... but is your dog socialized with other dogs? If a small dog "came at him" how would he react - has he had a bad experience with a large dog?
The reason I ask is that I come across people every day who think my on lead "big dog" is going to do something to their "small dog" - they pull them away, pick them up, go a different direction and instill fear into their dog for no reason when my guy hasn't even noticed or has any interest in their dog. Fast forward and they have a dog who has learnt that any dog that looks at them sideways is going to attack them and they lash out. Maybe you need to do some work with your dog so it's not as deffensive - for his own benefit so he can relax and enjoy his walk instead of worrying about dogs coming at him?

theghost

easyeason3 wrote: »

I don't mind dogs off the lead once they are behaved. But the thing is I don't ever let my guy off lead around other dogs because even though he is completely submissive I would be afraid his idea of play would annoy the other dog causing them to snap.
He's ok with his own friends because they are used to him & jump & run along with him. He is lively to say the least but not all dogs want that kind of play & I wouldn't want to put him in danger of getting a bite nor do I want another dog to be fearful or annoyed enough to want to bite.

By the way, did the man you met give any thought to the fact that if he was walking them along a road & you were at the far side that his dogs could run across without warning & get hit by a car?

I see a lot of this when I'm out walking, dogs off the lead or without a secure garden just lunge out when they see another four legged stranger that they just have to sniff. Thankfully I haven't actually witnessed any dog getting hit (my worst nightmare) but it came close once or twice.

In my experience dogs off leads tend to run and bark at other dogs on leads for some reason. One of them (the youngest and she who is scared of her own shadow) will run and bark at a strange dog for no particular reason but always comes back when called. I wouldn't be afraid about letting your dog play with the off-lead dogs as once he shows he's submissive (as befits any new member of the group) he'll very quickly be accepted. Most dogs that don't want his type of play - usually on grounds of age - will let him know with a couple of barks and he'll find others in the gang that are only to happy to play with him

discosue

tk123 wrote: »

The guy wasn't in control of his dogs so he's at fault there. However one part of your post stands out to me *apologies for potentially opening a can of worms here*



I could be way off here - maybe its the wording of you post ... but is your dog socialized with other dogs? If a small dog "came at him" how would he react - has he had a bad experience with a large dog?
The reason I ask is that I come across people every day who think my on lead "big dog" is going to do something to their "small dog" - they pull them away, pick them up, go a different direction and instill fear into their dog for no reason when my guy hasn't even noticed or has any interest in their dog. Fast forward and they have a dog who has learnt that any dog that looks at them sideways is going to attack them and they lash out. Maybe you need to do some work with your dog so it's not as deffensive - for his own benefit so he can relax and enjoy his walk instead of worrying about dogs coming at him?

He's not the best with other dogs no, I keep him on a lead though, there's no way he can cause hassle for other dogs and their owners out that way is the way I see it, respect for other people and their dogs, I know I don't like it when ones off are hassling him so I wouldn't want him to do it to another

I did word it wrong though as well, he's had small dogs come at him as well off the lead so big or small it happens, I just think that a big one off the lead is more intimidating for both me and him, a small one came out of nowhere and attacked him before and also a large one, neither of them had any owners with them at the time, it was easier for me to handle the situation when it was a small dog though

If there was yourself walking past with a dog on a lead I wouldn't act as you've said, pick him up and walk off with him instilling fear when there was no need as there is no need but when they're off it I have to be honest when one has come running I have picked him up in the past

discosue

easyeason3 wrote: »

I don't mind dogs off the lead once they are behaved. But the thing is I don't ever let my guy off lead around other dogs because even though he is completely submissive I would be afraid his idea of play would annoy the other dog causing them to snap.
He's ok with his own friends because they are used to him & jump & run along with him. He is lively to say the least but not all dogs want that kind of play & I wouldn't want to put him in danger of getting a bite nor do I want another dog to be fearful or annoyed enough to want to bite.

By the way, did the man you met give any thought to the fact that if he was walking them along a road & you were at the far side that his dogs could run across without warning & get hit by a car?
I see a lot of this when I'm out walking, dogs off the lead or without a secure garden just lunge out when they see another four legged stranger that they just have to sniff. Thankfully I haven't actually witnessed any dog getting hit (my worst nightmare) but it came close once or twice.

They were coming from the field, there's a lane beside the field with 2 cul de sac roads either end, I haven't seen him out and about on the roads with them, just at the field near my house

keno-daytrader

You are totally in the right here, no if ands or buts. Your dog was under your control at all times, his was not.

**Vai**

I'd be straight on to the local authorities, especially after the snarling/aggression.
1 in a thousand dogs are perfectly behaved off lead yet some people seem to think all of them are. Just from dumb luck and no effort, perfect off lead dog. Yeah right.

Niamho!

It depends on the situation I think.

I mostly keep my dog on a lead and if I want to let her off I make sure its somewhere quiet as I don't trust her in EVERY situation to come back when I call her. However, she is a VERY friendly dog and I would never let her off lead otherwise. If she goes running to a cranky dog and they react badly then she'll normally come back to me because she knows they're not interested in playing. I agree that the boxer owner should have had leads with him but as long as his dogs are friendly and under control I dont see a problem. You said the second one wasn't friendly though?

Niamho!

tk123 wrote: »

I could be way off here - maybe its the wording of you post ... but is your dog socialized with other dogs? If a small dog "came at him" how would he react - has he had a bad experience with a large dog?
The reason I ask is that I come across people every day who think my on lead "big dog" is going to do something to their "small dog" - they pull them away, pick them up, go a different direction and instill fear into their dog for no reason when my guy hasn't even noticed or has any interest in their dog. Fast forward and they have a dog who has learnt that any dog that looks at them sideways is going to attack them and they lash out. Maybe you need to do some work with your dog so it's not as deffensive - for his own benefit so he can relax and enjoy his walk instead of worrying about dogs coming at him?

This is exaclty what I was thinking. I encounter this EVERY time I walk my dog. she's huge, but Soooo friendly, but its unbeleivable how many awful agressive dogs I meet, and owners who cross the road drive me crazy. Bloody people not socialising their dogs!! I'm not insinuating that the OP didn't socialise their dog by the way!!

Zapperzy

Niamho! wrote: »

It depends on the situation I think.

I mostly keep my dog on a lead and if I want to let her off I make sure its somewhere quiet as I don't trust her in EVERY situation to come back when I call her. However, she is a VERY friendly dog and I would never let her off lead otherwise. If she goes running to a cranky dog and they react badly then she'll normally come back to me because she knows they're not interested in playing. I agree that the boxer owner should have had leads with him but as long as his dogs are friendly and under control I dont see a problem. You said the second one wasn't friendly though?

But neither dog was under control. By under control he should have been able to call his dogs back to him as soon as he seen another person or dog coming.

You let your dog run up to other dogs? Even one's on lead? And she normally comes back to you if you meet a cranky dog? As the owner of a 'cranky' dog myself it is incredibly annoying having dogs running up into my dog's face, (my dog is always on a lead), my dog will start up a barking frenzy at the other dog, to this date he has never bitten another dog for doing this but honestly who would you see in the wrong if my on lead dog were to bite your off lead dog?

While you say your dog is friendly I don't know that if I meet her. How am I to know that when my dog starts barking that your dog isin't going to turn on him and start attacking him? It's happened to me once with an off lead and completely unsupervised boxer, she approached us, my dog started barking and next thing the two of them were intertangled and the boxer's mouth was around my terrier's body and not in a playful way. There were no puncture wounds just bruising so this wasn't a full on attack but it was terrifying watching a dog at least 3 times the size of your own with her jaws around him. How am I to know that every off lead dog I meet that runs up to him isin't going to do the same.

Niamho! wrote: »

This is exaclty what I was thinking. I encounter this EVERY time I walk my dog. she's huge, but Soooo friendly, but its unbeleivable how many awful agressive dogs I meet, and owners who cross the road drive me crazy. Bloody people not socialising their dogs!! I'm not insinuating that the OP didn't socialise their dog by the way!!

I am one of those owners who cross the road where possible, I do it for everyone's sake as I try to avoid a confrontation where possible. My dog has a problem, I know it and will admit it, he probably wasn't socialised as a pup, I got him when he was about 2 and I don't know his history up to that, I have tried since unsuccesfully to rectify the problem.

Owners who cross the road just because they see a big dog coming towards their little dog and presume it's going to eat it I agree are just being silly, doing this before there dog even has any problems and eventually the dog will definitely develop a dog fear which will probably lead to aggression.

discosue

Niamho! wrote: »

It depends on the situation I think.

I mostly keep my dog on a lead and if I want to let her off I make sure its somewhere quiet as I don't trust her in EVERY situation to come back when I call her. However, she is a VERY friendly dog and I would never let her off lead otherwise. If she goes running to a cranky dog and they react badly then she'll normally come back to me because she knows they're not interested in playing. I agree that the boxer owner should have had leads with him but as long as his dogs are friendly and under control I dont see a problem. You said the second one wasn't friendly though?

Yeah the 1st one I think just wanted to play, he seemed like a younger one bit puppy like even though he didn't look like one, he got the message when he could see Jack didn't, but the second one came running at him, head down, aggressive, straight up into his face and snarling

Now I'd love if my Jack was a playful one who got on with all the other dogs but he just isn't like that, great with people not with dogs that's why I keep him on the lead

I don't think that they were friendly and under control I wouldn't have had a problem trying to walk down the lane home if that were the case, for him to not even be carrying any leads for them really surprised me

discosue

Zapperzy wrote: »

But neither dog was under control. By under control he should have been able to call his dogs back to him as soon as he seen another person or dog coming.

You let your dog run up to other dogs? Even one's on lead? And she normally comes back to you if you meet a cranky dog? As the owner of a 'cranky' dog myself it is incredibly annoying having dogs running up into my dog's face, (my dog is always on a lead), my dog will start up a barking frenzy at the other dog, to this date he has never bitten another dog for doing this but honestly who would you see in the wrong if my on lead dog were to bite your off lead dog?

While you say your dog is friendly I don't know that if I meet her. How am I to know that when my dog starts barking that your dog isin't going to turn on him and start attacking him? It's happened to me once with an off lead and completely unsupervised boxer, she approached us, my dog started barking and next thing the two of them were intertangled and the boxer's mouth was around my terrier's body and not in a playful way. There were no puncture wounds just bruising so this wasn't a full on attack but it was terrifying watching a dog at least 3 times the size of your own with her jaws around him. How am I to know that every off lead dog I meet that runs up to him isin't going to do the same.



I am one of those owners who cross the road where possible, I do it for everyone's sake as I try to avoid a confrontation where possible. My dog has a problem, I know it and will admit it, he probably wasn't socialised as a pup, I got him when he was about 2 and I don't know his history up to that, I have tried since unsuccesfully to rectify the problem.

Owners who cross the road just because they see a big dog coming towards their little dog and presume it's going to eat it I agree are just being silly, doing this before there dog even has any problems and eventually the dog will definitely develop a dog fear which will probably lead to aggression.

All the bold bits ring true with me

kylith

Zapperzy wrote: »

But neither dog was under control. By under control he should have been able to call his dogs back to him as soon as he seen another person or dog coming.

You let your dog run up to other dogs? Even one's on lead? And she normally comes back to you if you meet a cranky dog? As the owner of a 'cranky' dog myself it is incredibly annoying having dogs running up into my dog's face, (my dog is always on a lead), my dog will start up a barking frenzy at the other dog, to this date he has never bitten another dog for doing this but honestly who would you see in the wrong if my on lead dog were to bite your off lead dog?

While you say your dog is friendly I don't know that if I meet her. How am I to know that when my dog starts barking that your dog isin't going to turn on him and start attacking him? It's happened to me once with an off lead and completely unsupervised boxer, she approached us, my dog started barking and next thing the two of them were intertangled and the boxer's mouth was around my terrier's body and not in a playful way. There were no puncture wounds just bruising so this wasn't a full on attack but it was terrifying watching a dog at least 3 times the size of your own with her jaws around him. How am I to know that every off lead dog I meet that runs up to him isin't going to do the same.



I am one of those owners who cross the road where possible, I do it for everyone's sake as I try to avoid a confrontation where possible. My dog has a problem, I know it and will admit it, he probably wasn't socialised as a pup, I got him when he was about 2 and I don't know his history up to that, I have tried since unsuccesfully to rectify the problem.

Owners who cross the road just because they see a big dog coming towards their little dog and presume it's going to eat it I agree are just being silly, doing this before there dog even has any problems and eventually the dog will definitely develop a dog fear which will probably lead to aggression.

I could have written the above myself. I too have a cranky dog, she was rescued from the pound after being in an awful situation and it's left her with a tendancy to snarl at strange dogs. There's really nothing worse than seeing an off-lead dog come barrelling toward you with the owner either ineffectually calling them or shouting 'It's ok, he's friendly' from the distance. I really do get frightened that they will get too close and one of them will get hurt. How on earth could I look at someone whose dog my dog has hurt and tell them it was their own fault? Logically it would have been, but how do you look them in the eye and tell them that?

I too cross the road to avoid other dogs because it's just stressful all round if I don't.

I would love to socialise Tegan more, but you can't really go up to a stranger and say 'Hello, can I socialise my dog with yours. Don't worry, she'll stop trying to eat him in about 10 minutes'.

belongtojazz

kylith wrote: »

I would love to socialise Tegan more, but you can't really go up to a stranger and say 'Hello, can I socialise my dog with yours. Don't worry, she'll stop trying to eat him in about 10 minutes'.

Oh this is so me with my Springer There have been a few lovely owners who have let him chase and bark at their dog for the required 10 minutes and he is now as happy as Larry when he sees them. However he will bark and lunge in a very excited manner when he sees any dog bigger than a Jack Russel, it can be very embarrassing

Edit: I should add my guys issues are also due to a lack of socialising, he was nearly 7 when I got him and had been kept locked up as he was too "wild"

kylith

belongtojazz wrote: »

Oh this is so me with my Springer There have been a few lovely owners who have let him chase and bark at their dog for the required 10 minutes and he is now as happy as Larry when he sees them. However he will bark and lunge in a very excited manner when he sees any dog bigger than a Jack Russel, it can be very embarrassing

Edit: I should add my guys issues are also due to a lack of socialising, he was nearly 7 when I got him and had been kept locked up as he was too "wild"

The really strange thing is that the dog who goes for other dogs in the street is the sweetest thing with them once she's accepted them; she follows them around and tries to play with them as best she can. I'd love to introduce her to other dogs because once she's over her nervousness she loves them.

However my other dog, who is grand with meeting other dogs, gets very stressed if she has to spend too much time with them; she turns into a right tiny tyrant.