How to get around the liquids rule

Cookie_Monster

Didn't even cross my mind but coming home from Bologna the other day I had two trays of olives from the supermarket in my carry on. Sealed plastic kindda like this but much bigger.



only on the plane when realised that both trays are full of oil/water in them, well over the 100ml limit

No issues at all though...

So there ya go, hide your dangerous chemicals in the olives :pac:

CaptainSkidmark

way 2 much trouble to be going through lol

kona

Awfully stupid rule in anyways.

cuterob

I dont understand how putting the liquid into those plastic bags are gonna stop anyone accessing them anyway? can anyone explain the reasoning behind that for me please?

Jammyc

cuterob wrote: »

I dont understand how putting the liquid into those plastic bags are gonna stop anyone accessing them anyway? can anyone explain the reasoning behind that for me please?

I always thought it was just so that they can be more easily checked out if they looked suspect?

cuterob

maybe yea but it should be easy to put 'dangerous liquids' into different containers?

Jammyc

cuterob wrote: »

maybe yea but it should be easy to put 'dangerous liquids' into different containers?

Thats true but I suppose they'd be looking out for lids that look like they've been tampered with and such. Seeing that they might take it and sample it to verify its contents.

Trevor451

I was reading somewhere that this rule is going to be abolished EU wide in 2013 as new scanners that can detect harmful liquids come in

amdublin

My aunt buys those little empty bottles for decanting your shampoo etc into.

But instead of shampoo she decants vodka into them and drinks it on the plane (with a mixer like)

My aunt is so classy

robinph

cuterob wrote: »

I dont understand how putting the liquid into those plastic bags are gonna stop anyone accessing them anyway? can anyone explain the reasoning behind that for me please?

It doesn't, and even the people who came up with the daft rule never thought the plastic bag was an added safety thing agains dangerous liquids. It is just so that the security can more easily guage the overall quantity that you have on you.

I have heard security quite seriously telling people that they needed to leave their toothpaste in the sealable bag so that it wouldn't go everywhere in their carry on bag in the event of the plane loosing cabin pressure. I was having my bag searched by the guy next to him at the time but was struggleing not to laugh at the stupidity of it all.

There is no requirement to keep your liquids/ gels in the plastic bag, it is only for the purposes of going through security.




I was in an argument with a security guy once about my tube of tooth paste who refused to let me continue until I bought another bag to put it in. I refused to buy a bag, so asked him if there was a problem with the quantity of toothpaste or if it was a risk in some way, he said no, I said cheers I'll be off then, he said I needed to put it in a plastic bag. That went round in circles a couple of times and then another guy who had succumed gave me his spare bag.
Security then put the toothpaste in the bag and sent me on my way. I then tried to insist that he rescan my toothpaste now that it was in the regulation bag, afterall that was the whole reason for the bag. He said it was OK and it didn't need rescanning, so I took the toothpaste out of the bag and gave it back to him. He then tried to insist that toothpaste was such a risk that it must be kept in the bag at all times.

I laughed.

I did have spare plastic bags on me all the time anyway, just coulnt' be arsed to make use of them for a pointless reason.

kona

Leaving Dublin for a gig, they confiscate my Hair glue, why? because the container was over 100ml yet the contents quite clearly were not.

Returning through birmingham, get through with a half drank bottle of jack daniels in my bag.

Whoever made these regulations in Dublin Airport are Idiots. I pity the lads implementing them, they must get terrible abuse.

Not to mention the Bulletbelt I got through Vancouver and Heathrow and Dublin airports, but apparantley my Hair products are more dangerous.

AfterDusk

Rules are rules (yeah they're stupid rules). Why do people have such a hard time sticking to them?

triggermortis

neil2304 wrote: »

Rules are rules (yeah they're stupid rules). Why do people have such a hard time sticking to them?

you answered your own question there...

castie

robinph wrote: »

It doesn't, and even the people who came up with the daft rule never thought the plastic bag was an added safety thing agains dangerous liquids. It is just so that the security can more easily guage the overall quantity that you have on you.

I have heard security quite seriously telling people that they needed to leave their toothpaste in the sealable bag so that it wouldn't go everywhere in their carry on bag in the event of the plane loosing cabin pressure. I was having my bag searched by the guy next to him at the time but was struggleing not to laugh at the stupidity of it all.

There is no requirement to keep your liquids/ gels in the plastic bag, it is only for the purposes of going through security.




I was in an argument with a security guy once about my tube of tooth paste who refused to let me continue until I bought another bag to put it in. I refused to buy a bag, so asked him if there was a problem with the quantity of toothpaste or if it was a risk in some way, he said no, I said cheers I'll be off then, he said I needed to put it in a plastic bag. That went round in circles a couple of times and then another guy who had succumed gave me his spare bag.
Security then put the toothpaste in the bag and sent me on my way. I then tried to insist that he rescan my toothpaste now that it was in the regulation bag, afterall that was the whole reason for the bag. He said it was OK and it didn't need rescanning, so I took the toothpaste out of the bag and gave it back to him. He then tried to insist that toothpaste was such a risk that it must be kept in the bag at all times.

I laughed.

I did have spare plastic bags on me all the time anyway, just coulnt' be arsed to make use of them for a pointless reason.

These guys are just doing there jobs.
Why go out of your way to make it more difficult for them?

Seems to be like you were acting a bit like a child in this situation.

He/She doesnt make the rules they just have to enforce them.
People need to understand this and cut honest people earning a living a break.

If I was this security person I would be flagging people as aggressive and seeing how they like the treatment they get afterwards.

robinph

castie wrote: »

These guys are just doing there jobs.
Why go out of your way to make it more difficult for them?

Seems to be like you were acting a bit like a child in this situation.

He/She doesnt make the rules they just have to enforce them.
People need to understand this and cut honest people earning a living a break.

If I was this security person I would be flagging people as aggressive and seeing how they like the treatment they get afterwards.

They are just doing their jobs, but if they are not doing it properly then they should be told about it and we shouldn't just roll over and accept whatever new rule the security person has made up that morning. Getting the whole liquids rules changed is another issue, but security personnel inventing their own should be disputed.

There is no need to carry items in the resealable bag. There is certainly no requirement to carry items in the resealable bag once airside. The resealable bag is purely for the purpose of making it easier for security to judge the overall quantity of liquid/ gel items that you have on you. If the cabin looses air pressure then the least of our worries are if a bit of toothpaste makes a mess of the inside of our carry on bag.

At another airport I have had an empty water bottle taken off me after the security claimed that even that was not permitted. It is, but I was too knackered that day to care too much. They didn't notice or query the 3litre camelbak that was inside my bag, but the empty 750ml bottle was apparently a security risk because liquid containers were allegedly banned as well.


I'll admit to being a bit childish, but it really makes no difference to me as I generally always get stopped going through due to various electronic gadgetry in my bags so if they come up with something stupid when having a rummage through the bag I'll tell them so.

Not once have I ever been queried over the actually dangerous items that I have in my bag though, and they are never noticed on the scanner, only when they start looking through the bag do I then tell them there are sharp items in there.

AfterDusk

triggermortis wrote: »

you answered your own question there...

No, not really. My point is that, the liquids rule is just one of those things that people know is there and has been in force since 2006. Why do people always try and break it? It's just stupid.

Anyway better screening means it'll be gone soon, so happy days.

Cookie_Monster

ah, this was meant just as a light hearted point....

don't be getting so serious on me. The olives taste really good by the way :pac:

veetwin

neil2304 wrote: »

No, not really. My point is that, the liquids rule is just one of those things that people know is there and has been in force since 2006. Why do people always try and break it? It's just stupid.

Anyway better screening means it'll be gone soon, so happy days.

In fairness robinph was probably just highlighting the absurdity of the rule. Searcher needs to see the toothpaste in a bag but declares there is no need to rescan it.

robinph gives the bag back to the kind soul and suddenly he is a terrorist threat because his toothpaste is bagless. Which is the stupidist? The "rule" or the "rulebreaker"?

Though going through airport security would be a nightmare if everybody adopted that tactic!

buzzard

On a different note, was coming back from the Canaries last Saturday and was passing through security, so I put my bag through the scanner and walked through the detector. All's well so far so I waited for my bag and the guy at the screen was eyeing it up, back and forth the belt went and then he asked me to open it up and take out the contents.

Took out the camera, no, iPod, no, batteries, no, chargers, no, cables and other bits of wires, no. All what was left in the bag was three wire spiralled cups and he was asking what they where so I explained egg cups but he didn't understand so at security my daughter was clucking like a chicken with the arms waving and then he copped on. Smiled, laughed and waved us on our way. Was funny at the time.

robinph

veetwin wrote: »

In fairness robinph was probably just highlighting the absurdity of the rule. Searcher needs to see the toothpaste in a bag but declares there is no need to rescan it.

robinph gives the bag back to the kind soul and suddenly he is a terrorist threat because his toothpaste is bagless. Which is the stupidist? The "rule" or the "rulebreaker"?

Though going through airport security would be a nightmare if everybody adopted that tactic!

It does only happen when the security are bored and not many people are going through. Any other time and the genuine security becomes a secondary issue and its just about processing as many people as possible with the occasional beep of the metal deterctor arch to try and convince us its all for our safety.

nitromaster

What happens if you carry a container with liquids on your person? (depending on the size/what you're wearing obviously)

Surely as this wouldn't set off the metal detector you walk though, you'd get away with it?

Davidth88

OP, I am glad the olives were good , I imagine in theory they should not have been allowed through security.

moany

Its the most ridiculous ruling known to man. Its just a scam to get you to buy more Duty Free as all of the products can be bought once thruogh security.

Noo

moany wrote: »

Its the most ridiculous ruling known to man. Its just a scam to get you to buy more Duty Free as all of the products can be bought once through security.

I cant remember what airport it was but security was at the boarding gate. So while your sealed up booze from the duty free was allowed through anything else liquid that you bought was not. So if you bought water in the duty free for the plane tough s**t, booze was the only thing that got security sealed when you bought it.

Really annoying me now where it was, somewhere in europe.

baby and crumble

Noo wrote: »

I cant remember what airport it was but security was at the boarding gate. So while your sealed up booze from the duty free was allowed through anything else liquid that you bought was not. So if you bought water in the duty free for the plane tough s**t, booze was the only thing that got security sealed when you bought it.

Really annoying me now where it was, somewhere in europe.

I think I've flown through there too, is it Helsinki?

Needler

castie wrote: »

These guys are just doing there jobs.
Why go out of your way to make it more difficult for them?

Seems to be like you were acting a bit like a child in this situation.

He/She doesnt make the rules they just have to enforce them.
People need to understand this and cut honest people earning a living a break.

If I was this security person I would be flagging people as aggressive and seeing how they like the treatment they get afterwards.

I'd redirect my abuse at the people who came up with these stupid rules but they are nowhere to be found. Probably have a cushy number in Brussels and are well isolated from the general public for security reasons

I always think the plastic bag thing is some bizzare social experiment to see how people react to obviously stupid rules and trying to find out how far they can push it before people speak up

Noo

baby and crumble wrote: »

I think I've flown through there too, is it Helsinki?

Nope i've never been there. So its in more than one place then, i thought it was really unusal. Its gonna drive me mad trying to remember where it was, i'm going through all the places i've been over the last few years and cant pin point it. Damn it!

robinph

Noo wrote: »

Nope i've never been there. So its in more than one place then, i thought it was really unusal. Its gonna drive me mad trying to remember where it was, i'm going through all the places i've been over the last few years and cant pin point it. Damn it!

Geveva have security at the gates as well after you have bought duty free.

monkeypants

Schiphol has the security right beside the boarding gate.

Davidth88

Amsterdam also has security at each gate.

Noo

Amsterdam!!!
Thank you! I'll be able to sleep tonight.

Stinicker

Prague (IIRC) and Singapore also have decentralised security at the gate, it really is a better system I think as you don't have loads of people trying to get through together.

Singapore Airport definetly had the best security experience for me anyway, no rush, no pressure or nazi like American security and a welcome smile and hello, all of this without compromising secuirty and the emphasis was clearly on a good experience for the customer.

In Airports like Cork, Dublin and Heathrow you can just buy your water or drinks after security and take them on the plane, this works great if your flying with Ryanair from Ireland as you don't then have to succumb to their overpriced 100ml cans of soda on the plane.

kingtut

Stinicker wrote: »

Prague (IIRC) and Singapore also have decentralised security at the gate, it really is a better system I think as you don't have loads of people trying to get through together.

No it sucks as you cannot bring a drink onto the plane!! If you buy a pepsi or something from the vending machine you have to drink it before security unlike other airports where you can buy drinks after security. Amsterdam also has this system.

robinph

^ ...and you get through passport control, chill out for a bit wander around the shops...but you then have to queue up again minutes before the flight is about to leave and mess about with security. You'll usually no know which gate you have to go to until a short time before the flight goes in those kinds of airports as well so have to keep your eyes on the small number of screens and know the shortest route to the next queue. Far too stressful having security at the gate.

Get all the security, passports and such like sorted in one right after you have dumped your hold bags. Then relax until you get to the plane.

chicken fingers

RobinPH, if you really did act as ridiculous as you say you did, god help you!
I mean, I can imagine how embarrassed the other passenger was (for you) that he actually gave you his bag.
And you had your own!
And after you were through you took it out again!
Jeez Louize, just get on the plane.
Nonsense like this is what causes planes to be delayed.

In a queue is not the place / time to highlight any security procedures that you don't agree with.
I know that TSA guys are not the most fun in the world but they are just doing their job.
They have a procedure that they need to follow and you acted like a gobsheen to be frank.

A nastier security guy could have pointed to you and had his supervisor take you away for questioning, a belly xray, checks, etc and miss your flight. Lucky for you they understand the difference between somebody acting like a smug díckhead and somebody trying a dry run.

Every time I go to the airport I see some genius acting like this.
I fly a couple of long hauls a month and a handful of short hauls and I always just keep my mouth shut, do what the signs and the staff tell me, and I never have had any problems with anything.

robinph

chicken fingers wrote: »

RobinPH, if you really did act as ridiculous as you say you did, god help you!
I mean, I can imagine how embarrassed the other passenger was (for you) that he actually gave you his bag.
And you had your own!
And after you were through you took it out again!
Jeez Louize, just get on the plane.
Nonsense like this is what causes planes to be delayed.

In a queue is not the place / time to highlight any security procedures that you don't agree with.
I know that TSA guys are not the most fun in the world but they are just doing their job.
They have a procedure that they need to follow and you acted like a gobsheen to be frank.

A nastier security guy could have pointed to you and had his supervisor take you away for questioning, a belly xray, checks, etc and miss your flight. Lucky for you they understand the difference between somebody acting like a smug díckhead and somebody trying a dry run.

Every time I go to the airport I see some genius acting like this.
I fly a couple of long hauls a month and a handful of short hauls and I always just keep my mouth shut, do what the signs and the staff tell me, and I never have had any problems with anything.

There was no queue, very very quiet time at security.
They could have taken me aside and questioned me for a couple of hours before deciding that it was a waste of time and I'd have still made my flight.
There was no aggressiveness by either party, merely trying to get them to justify what they were asking me to do. This they could not do as the plastic bag is not needed for safety on the plane, it is not needed to enable them to put a tube of toothpaste through their scanner, it is not needed for them to establish that it is a smaller than 100ml tube. I was not going to pay them £2 to buy some bags which is what they were trying to get me to do.
They have a procedure that they have to follow, it does not require you to keep your liquids/ gels in the plastic bag airside.
TSA are the American security people.

Layzehfoo

I'm one of those trained monkeys at the front.

Yes, I do have to enforce rules that are 99% of the time completely unnecessary, rules where the only direct benefit comes from the ability of managers going back up the chain to be able to turn around to regulatory bodies, security litigation lawyers and whoever else is looking and say "yes, we have enforced the rules that you require". But I have to enforce them. There is no lee-way.

No, I do not let up because there's a queue. Doesn't matter if there's just you or 100+ behind you, I'll let you through as quick as I can, but only when I can satisfy myself that you're not carrying something which contravenes the rules. If there's something I need to check, then I will check it. You can refuse to allow me to check it, but I then have to refuse to allow you into the secure area.

chicken fingers

robinph wrote: »

This they could not do as the plastic bag is not needed for safety on the plane, it is not needed to enable them to put a tube of toothpaste through their scanner, it is not needed for them to establish that it is a smaller than 100ml tube. I was not going to pay them £2 to buy some bags which is what they were trying to get me to do.
They have a procedure that they have to follow, it does not require you to keep your liquids/ gels in the plastic bag airside.
TSA are the American security people.

I am aware who TSA are, you never specified where you were, I used TSA as an example because they are frequently bashed.

Anyways its cool that you are more of an expert about what is and isn't needed or required (5 references highlighted).
However, unfortunately, it is not relevant what you know or think you know.
Those guys are in charge and you do what they say, the end.
Passengers don't get to decide the rules.
Whats not to get?

robinph

Layzehfoo wrote: »

I'm one of those trained monkeys at the front.

Yes, I do have to enforce rules that are 99% of the time completely unnecessary, rules where the only direct benefit comes from the ability of managers going back up the chain to be able to turn around to regulatory bodies, security litigation lawyers and whoever else is looking and say "yes, we have enforced the rules that you require". But I have to enforce them. There is no lee-way.

No, I do not let up because there's a queue. Doesn't matter if there's just you or 100+ behind you, I'll let you through as quick as I can, but only when I can satisfy myself that you're not carrying something which contravenes the rules. If there's something I need to check, then I will check it. You can refuse to allow me to check it, but I then have to refuse to allow you into the secure area.

No problem at all with anything you are doing, or rules that you are following, and fully aware that most of the guys are probably aware of how pointless and stupid the rules are that you are being told to apply.

I do have a problem with the security people that make stuff up though. Including the lines about the plastic bag being to save us from tubes of toothpaste exploding in the event of cabin de-pressurisation.

robinph

chicken fingers wrote: »

I am aware who TSA are, you never specified where you were, I used TSA as an example because they are frequently bashed.

Anyways its cool that you are more of an expert about what is and isn't needed or required (5 references highlighted).
However, unfortunately, it is not relevant what you know or think you know.
Those guys are in charge and you do what they say, the end.
Passengers don't get to decide the rules.
Whats not to get?

Maybe you can help and point me in the direction of some answers to these questions then?

What is the plastic bag doing to improve safety on the plane?
How does it improve their ability to put things through the scanner?
How does it help them establish the capacity of individual items?
Where does it say that the bags are required anywhere other than at the security point?

stargazer 68

I dont mind the rules - thems the rules so if you dont like them then dont fly! However, if it was standard it would be okay - really depends on who is on the security at the time.

Some are quite strict about the liquid thing and some aren't. Have seen people go through with 2 plastic bags and not 1 as its supposed to be or the bags cant close as they are too full. And yet others have been stopped. Take off your shoes with one person and not with others!

Going through Luton airport is a nightmare - apart from how slow they are. They do random chemical tests on your liquids. I had a wash in hair dye with me (75ml) and she made me open the tube so she could test it. Fine however the tube was sealed and wrapped in plastic as I had just bought it so I obviously hadn't tampered with it.

muppet01

robinph wrote: »

Maybe you can help and point me in the direction of some answers to these questions then?

What is the plastic bag doing to improve safety on the plane?
How does it improve their ability to put things through the scanner?
How does it help them establish the capacity of individual items?
Where does it say that the bags are required anywhere other than at the security point?

The plastic bag groups all liquid/paste /gels into one area for ease of location.
It also prevents spillages damaging xray machines.
As it is a see thru bag it aids visual inspection.
Most if not all European airports have audio and visual messages throughout the buildings.
And before you say, "its a tiny can of lynx, Its undersized" An xray machine will indicate the presence of a liquid/gel/paste it will not determine its size,therefore requiring a visual ( most pepper sprays and mace come in 50/75ml canisters)

Carawaystick

muppet01 wrote: »

It also prevents spillages damaging

Have you any evidence to suggest xray machines were damaged by spillages before this secret rule was brought in?

Needler

kingtut wrote: »

Amsterdam also has this system.

I never noticed and I've been there loads of times. I'll be going there myself soon so I'll look out for the decentralised security


They could just do away with the airport altogether. You show up in your car/bus beside the runway, throw the bag onto the plane yourself, show your boarding pass to the trolly dolly at the door of the plane as you do already and off you go

muppet01

Carawaystick wrote: »

Have you any evidence to suggest xray machines were damaged by spillages before this secret rule was brought in?

It not rocket science, nor a secret rule.
A spillage inside a highly expensive piece of kit is not a good thing.
They are EU regulations not made up by trained monkeys on site.Those individuals are doing a job and are subjected to random tests by the dept of transport and ICAO which may lead to disipline or dismissal if regulations not enforced correctly.

robinph

I can perfectly understand the reason for the plastic bag, it is not to protect the xray machine though. The plastic bag is merely to make it easier for a quick visual inspection of the number of items. I've no problem with that, just I happen to never actually bother with the plastic bag thing myself. I get searched 90% of the time going through, never because of any liquids or gels though, they are just a side issue and make no difference to the time I spend getting through.

When they start making stuff up then I will dispute it with them. Needing the plastic bag past the security point is made up by that security person, the plastic bag for safety on the plane in the event of decompression is made up by that security person, empty plastic bottles not being permitted airside is made up by that security person.

Dovies wrote: »

Some are quite strict about the liquid thing and some aren't. Have seen people go through with 2 plastic bags and not 1 as its supposed to be or the bags cant close as they are too full. And yet others have been stopped. Take off your shoes with one person and not with others!

That is because 10 x 100ml items into 1 x 1 litre plastic bag does not go. Someone, somewhere had the cop on to realise that the two statements of "a 1 litre plastic bag" and "10 items of 100ml or less" are incompatible.

homerjay2005

kona wrote: »

Whoever made these regulations in Dublin Airport are Idiots. I pity the lads implementing them, they must get terrible abuse.

the rules are the same every where, dublin didnt make them. they enforce them, so dont confuse regulations with neglegence.